Suggestions about the HEVY Launcher

[Endominus]

Of the triad of specialist weapons, I feel pretty confident in claiming that the HEVY is the least useful and easily applicable at the moment. Its feels like it's intended to be a parallel to the XCOM rocket launcher, but lacks the reliability and lethality that made that weapon so effective. Which is a shame, because it's still a lot of fun to use. I thought it might be worthwhile to collect some thoughts about the weapon and suggestions for possible changes that might give it more utility.

1. Additional ammo types, or a split of functionality. There is one function that isn't really captured in the current specialist weapons; armor shred. Splitting the current explosive HEVY ammo into two types (a wide AoE blast that does little against armor, but maybe has decent suppression values, and a smaller blast with less raw damage, but great armor penetration/shred and terrain destruction) makes the choice of ammo a more difficult one. Maybe add a sabot round without an AoE but is more accurate with great damage. There is a little crossover with the LMG and it's suppression role, and the sniper and its penetrative damage role, so it's worth considering de-emphasizing those aspects in this weapon.
2. Instead of magazines, have the ammo be loaded one by one, or at least lower the cost of swapping. This would encourage use of different ammo types a lot more.
3. Burst fire mode, like the MARS rocket launcher. This goes the opposite direction; I recently found out how damned fun this can be, opening a terror mission with my Skyranger pointed at an open park full of Sebillians. A couple turns later, I turned the place in Verdun. Having this as a panic button, where everything in a direction just needs to die, could be a fun addition to the weapon. Might be useful to increase the magazine capacity if this is done.
4. A slight arc. This is a more involved change, I understand, and probably isn't appropriate for launching the game soon, but I thought I should mention it. Having the projectiles arc a little, so that a miss isn't going to just sail off to the edge of the map almost every time but is probably going to hit something nearby would make the weapon feel more reliable. (actually,thinking it over, this can sort of be simulated by jury-rigging the grenade scatter code into the weapon, assuming that's possible, then modifying the scatter tile result likelihood with a function to stretch it along the path of travel - which probably also makes sense for thrown grenades too. I don't know if the weapon scatter code was made to be modular in that way, however)
5. Mortar mode. This is another big change, so I'm not really hopeful about it despite how cool it would be. Having the weapon basically be able to function as an extremely powerful grenade throwing arm, launching its ammo over intervening terrain and guaranteeing a hit against the ground somewhere, would make it extremely valuable. And also, probably, too powerful. That can be mitigated somewhat if this is made to be very inaccurate (perhaps the projectile would always scatter 1-3 tiles?), but I think this would make the thing very difficult to balance because it allows the player to have a weapon that's perfectly safe to use in many situations, which runs contrary to the design philosophy of most other weapons, I feel.
6. Ammo should lower in weight as it's used. Don't know how complex this change would be in practice. I'm guessing it wouldn't work with how you've programmed the game's item lookups, or at least it would be more complex than just adding another variable, like current_ammo and max_ammo, but for weight instead. It just feels bad to have a 1/4 of an ammo rack in a soldier's inventory and have it weigh the full amount. Not a major issue, just a niggle.
7. Remove damage dropoff at long range from the explosive HEVY projectiles. Just seems weird, considering the damage comes from the explosive charge. Long range play is discouraged with this weapon anyway due to limited ammo and inherent inaccuracy.

Any other thoughts on how to enhance the HEVY? Ideally, ones that would require minimal changes to code - it wouldn't be prudent to make large changes so near release. Or maybe I'm all wrong about the HEVY and it's actually aces; I can't claim to have the greatest insight into the game's balance, given how I play.

[Ruggerman]

This weapon has not seen much development over the time it has been in the game, but it would be nice if it had at lest some variation in the ammunition types. Just how good would it be if you could fire an illumination round what would show light over a greater area, and also maybe a canister round to act as a large shotgun for close range engagements. Also there was a time when there was a stun grenade round, which came in handy to subdue aliens in closed rooms, and lets not forget the humble smoke, and HE rounds. There could be advancements in ammunition capacity, and range, plus add-ons for targeting, be it optical or digital, who wouldn't like some nice laser sights.

Just a thought, what do other think???

Edited March 21, 2023 by Ruggerman

[Alienkiller]

Where I agree is that the Weapon-Part in some Parts isn´t final (Soldiers, Vehicles, Fighters). There we will see some Changes before or in the Early Access.

What the Greande Launcher belongs. I don´t know what the Devs have there in the Backhand (Features, Ammo or whatever). I can only agree that some Parts have to be adjusted in the Battle (like not shooting over the Map f. e.).

Edited March 22, 2023 by Alienkiller

[Emily_F]

On 3/21/2023 at 6:50 AM, Endominus said:

Of the triad of specialist weapons, I feel pretty confident in claiming that the HEVY is the least useful and easily applicable at the moment. Its feels like it's intended to be a parallel to the XCOM rocket launcher, but lacks the reliability and lethality that made that weapon so effective. Which is a shame, because it's still a lot of fun to use. I thought it might be worthwhile to collect some thoughts about the weapon and suggestions for possible changes that might give it more utility.

1. Additional ammo types, or a split of functionality. There is one function that isn't really captured in the current specialist weapons; armor shred. Splitting the current explosive HEVY ammo into two types (a wide AoE blast that does little against armor, but maybe has decent suppression values, and a smaller blast with less raw damage, but great armor penetration/shred and terrain destruction) makes the choice of ammo a more difficult one. Maybe add a sabot round without an AoE but is more accurate with great damage. There is a little crossover with the LMG and it's suppression role, and the sniper and its penetrative damage role, so it's worth considering de-emphasizing those aspects in this weapon.
2. Instead of magazines, have the ammo be loaded one by one, or at least lower the cost of swapping. This would encourage use of different ammo types a lot more.
3. Burst fire mode, like the MARS rocket launcher. This goes the opposite direction; I recently found out how damned fun this can be, opening a terror mission with my Skyranger pointed at an open park full of Sebillians. A couple turns later, I turned the place in Verdun. Having this as a panic button, where everything in a direction just needs to die, could be a fun addition to the weapon. Might be useful to increase the magazine capacity if this is done.
4. A slight arc. This is a more involved change, I understand, and probably isn't appropriate for launching the game soon, but I thought I should mention it. Having the projectiles arc a little, so that a miss isn't going to just sail off to the edge of the map almost every time but is probably going to hit something nearby would make the weapon feel more reliable. (actually,thinking it over, this can sort of be simulated by jury-rigging the grenade scatter code into the weapon, assuming that's possible, then modifying the scatter tile result likelihood with a function to stretch it along the path of travel - which probably also makes sense for thrown grenades too. I don't know if the weapon scatter code was made to be modular in that way, however)
5. Mortar mode. This is another big change, so I'm not really hopeful about it despite how cool it would be. Having the weapon basically be able to function as an extremely powerful grenade throwing arm, launching its ammo over intervening terrain and guaranteeing a hit against the ground somewhere, would make it extremely valuable. And also, probably, too powerful. That can be mitigated somewhat if this is made to be very inaccurate (perhaps the projectile would always scatter 1-3 tiles?), but I think this would make the thing very difficult to balance because it allows the player to have a weapon that's perfectly safe to use in many situations, which runs contrary to the design philosophy of most other weapons, I feel.
6. Ammo should lower in weight as it's used. Don't know how complex this change would be in practice. I'm guessing it wouldn't work with how you've programmed the game's item lookups, or at least it would be more complex than just adding another variable, like current_ammo and max_ammo, but for weight instead. It just feels bad to have a 1/4 of an ammo rack in a soldier's inventory and have it weigh the full amount. Not a major issue, just a niggle.
7. Remove damage dropoff at long range from the explosive HEVY projectiles. Just seems weird, considering the damage comes from the explosive charge. Long range play is discouraged with this weapon anyway due to limited ammo and inherent inaccuracy.

Any other thoughts on how to enhance the HEVY? Ideally, ones that would require minimal changes to code - it wouldn't be prudent to make large changes so near release. Or maybe I'm all wrong about the HEVY and it's actually aces; I can't claim to have the greatest insight into the game's balance, given how I play.

I approve all of the above. It is the one weapon I never use (though i never use the shields either)

[Kerensky]

I thought this weapon was silly at first, but it is the ultimate UFO assault weapon.  Firing smoke rounds causes enemies to be suppressed, ruins their accuracy, and knocks them out.

 

[Conductiv]

only played the demo, so I didn't actually see any upgrades of the HEVY. 

the grenade launcher is stated to be mostly a utility weapon, as such relying to much on the damage output of the weapon would be counter to its intended function. I didn't really use it a lot, as its heavy, inaccurate and could not befired indirectly from a safe position. handgrenades could be used to mimic its function with much higher reliability, safety and with more available options at the cost of potential range and greater overall weight cost if lots of grenades where to be hauled around.

 

accuracy really is the major concern, smoke and demo charges have to be placed with good accuracy to get decent effect out of them. it needs to hit a specific wall or smoke a specific area. if it can't do that with good reliability its better to get closer and use the far more accurate and safer grenades, especially since the HEVY fires from an exposed position with direct fire..so its liable to get hit with reaction fire..or worse...hit a nearby obstacle and blow up himself or his squad members 

[Alienkiller]

I use the Grenade-Launcher as well as Shield Soldiers. The Shield Soldiers normal and the Grenadiers as Artillerie-Soldiers.

But we Beta-Testers have seen so much Changes already, nothing is fix until it´s fix and hardcoded.

Edited April 11, 2023 by Alienkiller