My random thoughts on the first 40 or so days

[Skitso]

This is my very first game of X2 and here's some random thoughts I wrote down while playing.

 

Gameplay related stuff:

• The game feels nice and fast to play. I just feel a bit lost in the strategy layer and constantly feel like I need to make uninformed decisions that will wreck my campaign if done wrong. Not sure if it is like that in reality, but that's my gut feeling playing for the first time. 
• Losing the game for researching and manufacturing "wrong" stuff early in the game will probably be an issue for new players. Research is super slow and if you don't build new labs and hire scientist from day 1, your are going to be screwed.
  • On my first game I realized this too late, spending my lab time on researching alien alloys and interrogating different species, only to realize on day 25 that I should have researched aerial warfare and ablative plating or something similar to aid my air forces and at that point it seemed to be too late. I feel some additional help doing right strategic decisions might be good at least for 2 of the easier difficulty levels.
  • Maybe head scientist could give some hints what to do, instead of just being an ass all the time?
  • I feel like I need the game to encourage me to expand and build more bases. Like I was left wondering when is the "right moment" to build the second base.
• Are there any gameplay effects interrogating aliens or is it just fluff where you can spend your research time?
• I can't research multiple things simultaneously anymore?
• Do I really need to manufacture one aircraft missile at a time? Or is it one per aircraft? This might need some tutorial info?
• Automatic roof toggle still doesn't work.
  • Disable roofs only when:
    • 1. enemy units are seen inside
    • 2. own units are inside
    • 3. mouse cursor is inside
• What's with all the information displayed next to a cursor when applying first aid kit?
• Not fan of the visible alien health. Odd to see exact stats on autopsy report too. Maybe have a toggle for it? Also, unit health could be told more vaguely using states like: <healthy>, <slightly wounded>, <wounded>, <almost dead>  or similar.
  • In general I would prefer more "simulation" styled gameplay instead of too much gamification like simplifying suppression for example. Would love to see small things like randomly losing consciousness or accuracy after being shot, losing small amount of health when dashing through a window, needing a lot of TU's to bandage severe bleed wounds etc.
• Aliens using their racial abilities need some additional sound and/or visual effects for player to know something out of the ordinary is happening. Sectons' triangulation could have purple lines connect all sectons that are within the effective 8 tile range, targeting Psyons could change the reticule to purple and have 'mesmerising' text above it or something similar...
• Why can't I assign lightly wounded units to missions? Like who gives a shit if your toe nail is bent when humanity is at the brink of total annihilation?
• HUGE pile of logs broke into splinters from two pistol shots. Also other large props seemed to break too easily.
• Would like to cancel grenade throw, first-aid etc. with right click.
• Assigning new soldiers in the Launch dropship screen is too cumbersome. You need to click empty soldier space in dropship list, then click select soldier button, then click soldier and after that click the assign soldier button. It's 4 clicks for one soldier. It should be click empty slot, click soldier, done.

Graphics stuff:

• The games feels really smooth and polished, animations, effects and destruction are super nice. (Speaking of destruction, can't I level buildings completely any more?)
• Geoscape map seems visually too static and "boring" for something so essential to this game.
  • Maybe add some quick zoom-in when intercepting UFO's, starting ground combat etc. Some small animations to radar range, revealing ufo's and stuff like that...
• In armory screen, the chinook shadow is displayed on top of the bottom left info panel.
• In tactical mission there's no way to notice a door from "wrong side" of the wall. (ie. even if your soldier sees a door, but your POV is on the shroud side, you can't know there's a door unless you rotate your view)
• Crashed ufo's really need some fire, smoke and debris around them.
• Abduction maps could use some additional abduction props to make them feel more diverse. (like piles of empty abduction tubes or something)
• Pools of blood should be sized by the amount of damage received. It's comical to see 1hp damage and having a few liters of blood pouring out of a soldier.
• Lots of small issues with soldier portraits not fitting in the uniform layer properly (see through seams visible) 
• Region panic levels need to be more prominently visible. Maybe color code the whole region with green-yellow-red with panic percentage shown inside it?

Sound and music stuff:

• Music is just right. Superb atmosphere!
• Fading BG music away when going into loading screen would feel more polished than just keeping the music playing.
  • Complete silence or maybe even add a quick loop of loading music instead? It just sounds silly having intense action or scary suspense music playing while the game is loading.
  • Completing/failing a mission could play a small victory/lose jingle/fanfare when mission complete/failed text appears -> then fade to silence and go to load screen.
• I kinda miss some alert sound when a UFO is detected.
• Destroying a stone wall and wooden fence sound is REALLY FUCKING LOUD!!!
• Xenonaut units are too silent. Have them scream and shout in pain and fear. A player should feel the morale decreasing when soldiers are starting to panic. Crying and yelling mommy!!

Misc. stuff:

• Main objective is not easy enough to notice in the bottom corner of the geoscape. Might be a good idea to have a proper pop-up whenever the objective updates too.
• I felt the main objectives were often too vague and left me uncertain how to proceed.  At least for now it seems X1's objectives were more precise like "capture that and that live alien" etc.
• Intro text: "A strong correlation emerges between reported these sightings and rising international tensions..." Not a native English speaker, but this sentence must be wrong?
• Mission report doesn't show unit specific kill numbers. These are must IMO
• If an alien is suppressed and killed at the same time, "suppressed" text should not be shown
• Abduction mission needs 2-3 turns more time.
• Xenopedia is really nice
• Maps really need more verticality and tight spaces

 

Overall, I had a really good time with X2 and it's definitely on it's way to being a timeless classic! Great work @Chris and staff!

Edited December 17, 2022 by Skitso

[Wyldefyre_CP]

@Skitso  Solid overall review, my favorite line was "Maybe head scientist could give some hints what to do, instead of just being an ass all the time?"  That had me in stitches! 

[Chris]

8 hours ago, Skitso said:

This is my very first game of X2 and here's some random thoughts I wrote down while playing.

 

Gameplay related stuff:

• The game feels nice and fast to play. I just feel a bit lost in the strategy layer and constantly feel like I need to make uninformed decisions that will wreck my campaign if done wrong. Not sure if it is like that in reality, but that's my gut feeling playing for the first time. 
• Losing the game for researching and manufacturing "wrong" stuff early in the game will probably be an issue for new players. Research is super slow and if you don't build new labs and hire scientist from day 1, your are going to be screwed.
  • On my first game I realized this too late, spending my lab time on researching alien alloys and interrogating different species, only to realize on day 25 that I should have researched aerial warfare and ablative plating or something similar to aid my air forces and at that point it seemed to be too late. I feel some additional help doing right strategic decisions might be good at least for 2 of the easier difficulty levels.
  • Maybe head scientist could give some hints what to do, instead of just being an ass all the time?
  • I feel like I need the game to encourage me to expand and build more bases. Like I was left wondering when is the "right moment" to build the second base.
• Are there any gameplay effects interrogating aliens or is it just fluff where you can spend your research time?
• I can't research multiple things simultaneously anymore?
• Do I really need to manufacture one aircraft missile at a time? Or is it one per aircraft? This might need some tutorial info?
• Automatic roof toggle still doesn't work.
  • Disable roofs only when:
    • 1. enemy units are seen inside
    • 2. own units are inside
    • 3. mouse cursor is inside
• What's with all the information displayed next to a cursor when applying first aid kit?
• Not fan of the visible alien health. Odd to see exact stats on autopsy report too.
  • In general I would prefer more "simulation" styled gameplay instead of too much gamification like simplifying suppression for example. Would love to see small things like randomly losing consciousness or accuracy after being shot, losing small amount of health when dashing through a window, needing a lot of TU's to bandage severe bleed wounds etc. Maybe have a toggle for it? Also, unit health could be told more vaguely using states like: <healthy>, <slightly wounded>, <wounded>, <almost dead>  or similar.
• Aliens using their racial abilities need some additional sound and/or visual effects for player to know something out of the ordinary is happening. Sectons' triangulation could have purple lines connect all sectons that are within the effective 8 tile range, targeting Psyons could change the reticule to purple and have 'mesmerising' text above it or something similar...
• Why can't I assign lightly wounded units to missions? Like who gives a shit if your toe nail is bent when humanity is at the brink of total annihilation?
• HUGE pile of logs broke into splinters from two pistol shots. Also other large props seemed to break too easily.
• Would like to cancel grenade throw, first-aid etc. with right click.
• Assigning new soldiers in the Launch dropship screen is too cumbersome. You need to click empty soldier space in dropship list, then click select soldier button, then click soldier and after that click the assign soldier button. It's 4 clicks for one soldier. It should be click empty slot, click soldier, done.

Graphics stuff:

• The games feels really smooth and polished, animations, effects and destruction are super nice. (Speaking of destruction, can't I level buildings completely any more?)
• Geoscape map seems visually too static and "boring" for something so essential to this game.
  • Maybe add some quick zoom-in when intercepting UFO's, starting ground combat etc. Some small animations to radar range, revealing ufo's and stuff like that...
• In armory screen, the chinook shadow is displayed on top of the bottom left info panel.
• In tactical mission there's no way to notice a door from "wrong side" of the wall. (ie. even if your soldier sees a door, but your POV is on the shroud side, you can't know there's a door unless you rotate your view)
• Crashed ufo's really need some fire, smoke and debris around them.
• Abduction maps could use some additional abduction props to make them feel more diverse. (like piles of empty abduction tubes or something)
• Pools of blood should be sized by the amount of damage received. It's comical to see 1hp damage and having a few liters of blood pouring out of a soldier.
• Lots of small issues with soldier portraits not fitting in the uniform layer properly (see through seams visible) 
• Region panic levels need to be more prominently visible. Maybe color code the whole region with green-yellow-red with panic percentage shown inside it?

Sound and music stuff:

• Music is just right. Superb atmosphere!
• Fading BG music away when going into loading screen would feel more polished than just keeping the music playing.
  • Complete silence or maybe even add a quick loop of loading music instead? It just sounds silly having intense action or scary suspense music playing while the game is loading.
  • Completing/failing a mission could play a small victory/lose jingle/fanfare when mission complete/failed text appears -> then fade to silence and go to load screen.
• I kinda miss some alert sound when a UFO is detected.
• Destroying a stone wall and wooden fence sound is REALLY FUCKING LOUD!!!
• Xenonaut units are too silent. Have them scream and shout in pain and fear. A player should feel the morale decreasing when soldiers are starting to panic. Crying and yelling mommy!!

Misc. stuff:

• Main objective is not easy enough to notice in the bottom corner of the geoscape. Might be a good idea to have a proper pop-up whenever the objective updates too.
• I felt the main objectives were often too vague and left me uncertain how to proceed.  At least for now it seems X1's objectives were more precise like "capture that and that live alien" etc.
• Intro text: "A strong correlation emerges between reported these sightings and rising international tensions..." Not a native English speaker, but this sentence must be wrong?
• Mission report doesn't show unit specific kill numbers. These are must IMO
• If an alien is suppressed and killed at the same time, "suppressed" text should not be shown
• Abduction mission needs 2-3 turns more time.
• Xenopedia is really nice
• Maps really need more verticality and tight spaces

 

Overall, I had a really good time with X2 and it's definitely on it's way to being a timeless classic! Great work @Chris and staff!

Hey Skitso, I appreciate your thoughts as always, and I'm glad to hear that overall you think the game is coming along well. A few responses:

• I actually don't think the strategy layer is as prescriptive as you think, particularly with regards to research (or it shouldn't be in theory). One of the big things we've changed from X1 is that research doesn't scale linearly, so if you double the number of scientists research doesn't go twice as fast like it did in X1. In X2 building a new lab and filling it with scientists will at maximum only increase your research speed from 125% to 160%, which is only about a 1/3 overall speed increase for quite a high expenditure. I even had to buff the increase a bit more because Solver was complaining in the last patch that it was basically pointless building additional labs because they did so little. Anyway, the goal is that there's more than one possible course of action at the start of the game rather than hiring additional scientists being pretty much compulsory.
• Yes, interrogations give a +15% damage bonus against that type of enemy. I've updated the description to explain that.
• We discovered the roof toggle wasn't ever fully implemented after you pointed out the issues in the last demo. It's something we've not got round to fixing up yet, but it's on the to-do list.
• I do like the idea of having more abstracted values for alien health above their head, although I imagine we'd want to keep them as raw values on the easier difficulty settings.
• What would your suggestion for UII flow be to assign a new soldier to a dropship be, then? You'd suggest just clicking an empty slot in the dropship list would bring up the assignment menu rather than opening the slot? Or I guess maybe the empty slot could always just have the assignment menu displayed?
• The objectives have tooltips on them which give more details, but I guess that's not particularly obvious?

[Skitso]

5 hours ago, Chris said:

• I actually don't think the strategy layer is as prescriptive as you think, particularly with regards to research (or it shouldn't be in theory). One of the big things we've changed from X1 is that research doesn't scale linearly, so if you double the number of scientists research doesn't go twice as fast like it did in X1. In X2 building a new lab and filling it with scientists will at maximum only increase your research speed from 125% to 160%, which is only about a 1/3 overall speed increase for quite a high expenditure. I even had to buff the increase a bit more because Solver was complaining in the last patch that it was basically pointless building additional labs because they did so little. Anyway, the goal is that there's more than one possible course of action at the start of the game rather than hiring additional scientists being pretty much compulsory.

Regarding my success (or lack of) on geoscape gameplay, I think I feel I'm constantly failing if I'm not able to intercept and take down every ufo my radars detect and as I don't like to use the manual air combat, my insterceptors crash and burn easily as I'm not able to arm them as good as I'd like and auto resolve isn't that good. I feel I need to spend big money on my research and focus solely on air combat just to manage Geoscape. I'm sure I'm wrong with my thoughs, but I wonder if this is the way you want the players to feel at the beginning of the game? 

Quote

• The objectives have tooltips on them which give more details, but I guess that's not particularly obvious?

...and not having proper guidance with the objectives just further elevates the frustration I talked above. I propose that every time you have a new objective, have it pop up center of the screen with the same information you now have as a tool tip. Then player can better keep track whats happening and what needs to be done next. I was maybe not paying enough attention, but the first objective is something like "prepare for the alien invasion" and at some point it had changed into "research hyper drive". And I thought my mission was to reveal the Cleaner HQ... 

 

Quote

• I do like the idea of having more abstracted values for alien health above their head, although I imagine we'd want to keep them as raw values on the easier difficulty settings.

An options toggle would be best IMO.

Quote

What would your suggestion for UII flow be to assign a new soldier to a dropship be

Empty slot could read 'assign' instead of just '-' and clicking that would pop up a list of soldiers to choose from. 2 clicks

Edited December 18, 2022 by Skitso

[Chris]

23 hours ago, Skitso said:

Regarding my success (or lack of) on geoscape gameplay, I think I feel I'm constantly failing if I'm not able to intercept and take down every ufo my radars detect and as I don't like to use the manual air combat, my insterceptors crash and burn easily as I'm not able to arm them as good as I'd like and auto resolve isn't that good. I feel I need to spend big money on my research and focus solely on air combat just to manage Geoscape. I'm sure I'm wrong with my thoughs, but I wonder if this is the way you want the players to feel at the beginning of the game? 

...and not having proper guidance with the objectives just further elevates the frustration I talked above. I propose that every time you have a new objective, have it pop up center of the screen with the same information you now have as a tool tip. Then player can better keep track whats happening and what needs to be done next. I was maybe not paying enough attention, but the first objective is something like "prepare for the alien invasion" and at some point it had changed into "research hyper drive". And I thought my mission was to reveal the Cleaner HQ... 

Reading the balance thread, it seems like the alien invasion is just too strong at the moment - I increased the number of UFOs and the damage they caused for this build, so I've probably just made it a bit too hard. However even when the game is properly balanced it might be a bit too high a bar to expect to shoot down every UFO you detect.

Yes, I'll consider making the objectives a pop-up.

[Skitso]

I'll continue with my random thoughts:

-It would be nice to be able to unassign soldiers from armory screen by right clicking the name?

-soldiers should NOT plot movement through unopened doors!

-four medals in one mission breaks the debriefing screen

-Sebillian healing effect is seen through fog of war

-If a mission is failed and everyone is killed, should there even be a possibility of any of them to survive afterwards?

Edited December 21, 2022 by Skitso

[Skitso]

Many of the women portraits have these kinds of issues (and their hair often sticks through the helmet): 

Not a big deal, but feels unpolished.

Edited December 27, 2022 by Skitso

[Skitso]

I'd prefer not to have defender armor available before one or two missions.

Three reasons: 

-Units look more like themselves in the tactical view, which is nice

 -Bloodbath first mission

 -More progression 

Edited January 1, 2023 by Skitso

[Skitso]

• The basic medical center increases soldier survival rate to 50%? Seems quite high to me to have every other soldier that dies to come back.
• Cleaner intel mission needs a turn counter for reinforcement arrival. Also reinforcements need to pursue evacuating xenonauts better
• If a bleeding unit falls unconscious, you can't heal him/her.
• In Casualty list, space for Final mission is too short for 'Cleaner operation site, North America' and probably others too, making the text positioning to break 
• Aliens shooting from a distance and through smoke often hit Xeno units with 0 damage.
• Is it intended behaviour that I can block aliens opening a door by standing behind a door? Kinda makes sense, but maybe not quite...
• One of my units went berserk, but didn't shoot a single shot. I think the effect should last at least one turn to mean something. (Yeah, had this happen again, doesn't work)
• Completed 3 destroyer crash sites and they felt a bit underwhelming compared to earlier missions... too few aliens maybe?
• Sebillian self heal makes stunning them work a bit odd. They wake up and fall uncoscious over and over again
• Cleaner HQ walls aren't resolving LOS quite right. I know @Chris has said it's because walls are so "deep" that it looks a bit wrong, but I'm not quite sure it's just that.
• Targeting a turret in Cleaner HQ that is next to a wall didn't show a target reticule. (Sorry, no save or image, forgot this and added here later)
• should we have a repair kit for MARS? Like it's own first aid kit? Maybe a shield add-on too to make it better movable cover
• I feel there needs to be maybe one more cleaner mission between intel mission and main HQ.

Edited January 3, 2023 by Skitso

[Skitso]

Geoscape gameplay now feels a LOT more manageable after the latest patch. Very good, I'm actually starting to really enjoy this.

Edited December 27, 2022 by Skitso

[Skitso]

• Grenade targeting arc is canceled if mouse is hovered over soldier tabs at the top of the screen. 
• By fourth month I'm feeling I'm not getting enough biome variation and maps feel WAY too samey. It's not terrible, but not great either.
  • As the dock biome is still missing from crash site missions, maps are missing any proper urban mission like X1 had (industrial tileset) 
  • Also, the snow biome could use some buff to be chosen more often. (I've had none after first mission). 
  • I feel disappointed every time I get the Farm biome mission. It just lacks something both layout wise and visually. Maybe it needs some pstches of  trees and shrubbery to break the formulaic structure of large square fields divided with straight roads. Maybe add some cows or other animals?
  • There needs to be more layout variation within each biome - as it's now, every map of a certain biome feels too familiar between each other.
• Is it by design that I need to double click to rename soldiers or aircraft?
• Can't build servosuit. Just says 'Action Blocked' so no idea why.
• MARS units shouldn't probably be displayed on casualty list?
• Clicking on crash site should probably communicate how much it's rewards are going to be reduced. As it's now, I always wonder if I still "should" do the crash site.
• When in the assign soldier menu, I'd like to see the number of missions and kills to better remember who is who.
• Alien base layout could be a bit more inspired. At least the one I got was just a boring grid of square submaps with either a room or a room with a smaller room in the middle. All rooms were connected by 9x9 small corridors. I'd love to see large two story rooms with upper balconies and other more complex structures and more alien shapes. This was wayyy to vanilla.
• Audio-visually (not game balance wise) laser weapons lack a punch to feel like an proper upgrade IMO.
• In both base defense mission and alien base, you can see doors opening in shroud
• You probably shouldn't be able to deploy units in hangars when defending base?
• In the desert biome, see-through doors are not see-through:
  • 
• In the desert biome, this car block FoV:
  • 
• Certain UFO props' anti aliasing is seen through shroud:
  • 
• These small windows are vaultable: (probably shouldn't even be see-through as the windows are so high?)
  •  

Edited January 3, 2023 by Skitso

[Skitso]

Still continuing my playthrough... Dammit, I was planning on stopping 40-50 days in, but I'm now @120 days. I'm having fun! 

 

• Servo module and similar should be removed from manufacture list when completed as there's no point building it twice as they are provided in infinite quantities.
• After building advanced tactical modules, the old ones that are already in use are not updated
• My units being under mind war doesn't tell me much. What's happening and what are the effects?
• Researching Heavy Laser Weaponry didn't grant manufacture project for aircraft laser weapon. (should it?) Only base defense battery and MARS upgrades. 
• Reinforced plating manufacture project says it will produce one aircraft item. What it does is upgrade all existing armors automatically instead.
• Local forces are too good after they get laser. A guy wearing a T-shirt shrugs off 2 direct plasma bolts and kills a sebillian with two bursts of his own.
• Only seen reapers once in an alien base. Need more of them - maybe they come later?
• Same terror map AGAIN? Is there only one terror tile set this time?
• Ok now got a new alien base. This one is much better and more interesting than last one I criticized.

Edited January 2, 2023 by Skitso

[Skitso]

Ok now I feel the difficulty curve on my playtrough has dipped too low after 130 days or so. I can pretty much walk the missions through without too much thinking - even terror missions and alien bases which I feel should be really tough. Haven't lost a soldier in like 2 months. It's a stark contrast to my first two months which were really difficult. Is this intentional? Everything seems too easy now I got six or seven decent soldiers with lasers and Guardian armor. (I play with default difficulty, mind you). It feels odd I can put three modules to most of my units and make them super soldiers with 110+ TU's, perfect aim etc. They maybe need to be made larger so two is max?

Edited January 1, 2023 by Skitso

[Chris]

@Skitso Thanks for your thoughts, I've finally got around to reading them all. I can't respond to everything obviously, but here's some responses:

• As a general comment, I think you should be playing on Veteran rather than Soldier. You've had a lot of experience with X1 so I think you'll find Soldier too easy - although right now there's not THAT much difference between soldier and veteran so it probably doesn't invalidate any of what you're saying here. 
• Yes, the game balance (and polish) falls off the further you get into the game. I rarely have enough time to play more than 8-10 missions into a campaign so you're probably hitting parts of the game I don't see very often. And the addition of the module system means that soldiers are now more powerful than they were previously too. We probably need to discuss how best the balance should be updated in the balance threads, as other people have also mentioned that from day 120ish things get less interesting.
• There's various engineering projects with issues in them that should be fixed in the next update.
• I think there's an old system causing the local forces to get better armour as you research it, which I'll disable. Do you remember what biome this is? I *think* it should only be triggering in the terror missions?
• Yes, there's only one terror map biome at the moment, the western town. The soviet town biome is the final biome, and we're working on it at the moment.
• I guess survival rates probably are a little high; I've nerfed it a little so the Medical Room gives +25% and the base chance varies based on difficulty setting (from 25% on Recruit to 0% on Commander).
• I've fixed a number of the issues / bugs you've raised in your posts, and they'll be in the next hotfix. A number of the other points are things that other people have reported which we're working on too.

[Skitso]

Thanks @Chris, here's more.

• Alien bases need their own BG music. Something more sinister.
• MARS should not plot movement through stuff so easily. Maybe add a small TU penalty for crushing things? Also, it going through thick house walls is a bit too much IMO.
• Androns have the same fleshy gibbing animation other aliens have.
• I have infinite laser machineguns I can sell for infinite money
• Hovering mouse over interceptors in Engineering screen pops up white, old style tooltip
• In armory screen, the bottom left panel could be an inch or so taller so all 12 units would fit there without scrolling
• Is there an upgrade path for HEVY launcher?
• Psyons and Sebillians feel SUPER over used. At day 160 I'm still not getting androns, mantids, wraiths , reapers or any other surprises in UFO missions. UFO crews could really, really use some spicing up. (If it's just a randomizer issue, a system that prevents this could be a good idea) This game has so much cool stuff in it I feel you could add more enemy variation earlier. I've had Androns only in two missions. (both alien bases if I remember correctly)
• Terror missions need something more to feel more sinister and different. I think all terror missions need reapers and/or androns to add some of that terror into them. For more flavor, maybe put some fire, smoke, broken stuff, piles of corpses etc. around the map. Make AI use fire bombs to brake and lite up stuff around them, maybe reinforcements or air strikes after 10 turns, something to make them more terror-y.
• I have reloaded a weapon maybe 3 or 4 times this far in the campaign. Not sure how this could be made more interesting mechanic other than making clips smaller or adding enemies.
• Is there any information available how I should arm my interceptors or is it just trial-error? If I don't play manual air combat at all, I have no idea what weapons I should use against different UFO's.
• Reaper attack should be a one hit kill. They very seldom even have an opportunity to score a hit and it's even more rare them to be able to attack twice.
• Reapers need more menacing sounds IMO. ATM they feel more cute than frightening. Reaper AI might benefit from grouping and swarm attacks when you start focusing on stuff like that. They are not much of a threat right now.

Edited January 7, 2023 by Skitso

[Skitso]

On 1/6/2023 at 1:30 PM, Chris said:

• I think there's an old system causing the local forces to get better armour as you research it, which I'll disable. Do you remember what biome this is? I *think* it should only be triggering in the terror missions?

I'm pretty sure it was a terror mission, yeah.

[Skitso]

Hm, I always hate it in these kinds of games, where you are clearly closing the end and I still have lots of research to do or have just received new equipment to mess around with. I'm not sure how close to the end I am at the moment, but it's day 190 and the operation end game research just came available for me and it just feels too soon. Largest UFO's I've downed thus far are abductors, I've just recently manufactured my X55 Phantoms and plasma warheads. I've seen a couple of large UFO's flying about but haven't downed one yet and I only have two bases. I'm feeling like I'm in the mid-game, but apparently that's not the case? I guess I need to continue playing and find out.

• I like the scripted story missions at the beginning of the game, and pacing/variation wise, it would probably improve mid/late-game to have one or two such missions to break the monotony and give more structure and length to the game. 
• Some objectives/researches could maybe require more stuff / interrogations from the UFO wreckages to pad the mid game a bit more. I'd like the story to push me to down and complete a few more UFO's.
• There are some really long stretches of nothing happening where I can fast forward days and days. It makes the invasion feel lackluster and makes it too easy and fast to proceed.
• Tried to start endgame day 224 but couldn't choose a dropship so the game ended there. Overall, the first 100 days or so were really great, but the quality/pacing dropped the further I played. Anything beyond 160 days felt rushed and out of balance. I was ready for the last mission and the game was still introducing new UFO types, weapons etc. so the research structure was clearly incomplete.

I'll leave this game for now and will be back at some point in early access. Great work this far @Chris. Hopefully you'll be able to polish the whole game to be as nicely as the first few months are.

Edited January 8, 2023 by Skitso

[Wyldefyre_CP]

4 hours ago, Skitso said:

Hm, I always hate it in these kinds of games, where you are clearly closing the end and I still have lots of research to do or have just received new equipment to mess around with. I'm not sure how close to the end I am at the moment, but it's day 190 and the operation end game research just came available for me and it just feels too soon. Largest UFO's I've downed thus far are abductors, I've just recently manufactured my X55 Phantoms and plasma warheads. I've seen a couple of large UFO's flying about but haven't downed one yet and I only have two bases. I'm feeling like I'm in the mid-game, but apparently that's not the case? I guess I need to continue playing and find out.

• I like the scripted story missions at the beginning of the game, and pacing/variation wise, it would probably improve mid/late-game to have one or two such missions to break the monotony and give more structure and length to the game. 
• Some objectives/researches could maybe require more stuff / interrogations from the UFO wreckages to pad the mid game a bit more. I'd like the story to push me to down and complete a few more UFO's.
• There are some really long stretches of nothing happening where I can fast forward days and days. It makes the invasion feel lackluster and makes it too easy and fast to proceed.
• Tried to start endgame day 224 but couldn't choose a dropship so the game ended there. Overall, the first 100 days or so were really great, but the quality/pacing dropped the further I played. Anything beyond 160 days felt rushed and out of balance. I was ready for the last mission and the game was still introducing new UFO types, weapons etc. so the research structure was clearly incomplete.

I'll leave this game for now and will be back at some point in early access. Great work this far @Chris. Hopefully you'll be able to polish the whole game to be as nicely as the first few months are.

 

I agree in large part with what you've said here.  Definitely feel like Operation End Game arrives far too soon. 

I also liked the early scripted story missions, but feel like atm the Cleaners are more of an afterthought than a credible threat to your existence.  Sure, the Cleaner Base has been beefed up to the point of likely taking some of your early soldiers out with it before you close them down for good, but other than whittling away at your funding governments' nerves with the increased monthly panic threats, they don't really do much other than sit there.  Feel like they really need to be fleshed out in greater detail ... right now it's far too easy to track down the main base and put an end to them.  I'd suggest actually having the Cleaners conduct some terror missions of their own in different locations across the globe, to give the monthly panic threats some actual merit.  I'd also suggest adding some false trails/missteps along the way, that could end up in ambush situations, but would then provide clues to help triangulate the actual base if you survived those trials.  A potential cleaner assault on your initial base when you are on the verge to discovering their location could also be .... fun?  

I also agree on the objective/research/interrogations/UFO wreckage exploration bit.  I actually love the tactical combat missions, it's my favorite part of the whole game, and I'd love to see some more game mystery unveiled by doing more of those ops.

Agree on the long stretches, at least on Veteran and higher difficulty, anyways.  Maybe after the first few months, the aliens get smarter about direct contact with the countries you've got bases in and instead vigorously go after countries you have little or no presence in, while keeping you occupied in your base areas ... for instance, barraging you with light alien fighters and interceptors in your base countries, blowing up airliners, strafing airfields and oil rigs, etc and also threatening your troop transports when you send them out to tactical missions (something that rarely happens now) thus tying up the few fighters you've likely managed to afford to make defending home turf/protecting your troops while sending out more deadly, demoralizing bombing runs on countries further away from your bases, giving you a real chance to lose some of them over time.

Alternatively or in addition, regarding the long stretches of nothing, this could be broken up by local forces requesting Xenonaut assistance in places that you do occupy, putting out less disastrous alien incidents to garner some small bit of panic reduction or perhaps something more useful (like minor monetary rewards).  These could either be frequent enough to not all be doable, or sporadic enough to just add a little hint of extra danger/flavor to the game.

I still haven't gotten to the endgame w/o a new experimental build coming out to distract me, so I can't comment on that bit, lol ... 

[Chris]

On 1/8/2023 at 7:32 AM, Skitso said:

Hm, I always hate it in these kinds of games, where you are clearly closing the end and I still have lots of research to do or have just received new equipment to mess around with. I'm not sure how close to the end I am at the moment, but it's day 190 and the operation end game research just came available for me and it just feels too soon. Largest UFO's I've downed thus far are abductors, I've just recently manufactured my X55 Phantoms and plasma warheads. I've seen a couple of large UFO's flying about but haven't downed one yet and I only have two bases. I'm feeling like I'm in the mid-game, but apparently that's not the case? I guess I need to continue playing and find out.

• I like the scripted story missions at the beginning of the game, and pacing/variation wise, it would probably improve mid/late-game to have one or two such missions to break the monotony and give more structure and length to the game. 
• Some objectives/researches could maybe require more stuff / interrogations from the UFO wreckages to pad the mid game a bit more. I'd like the story to push me to down and complete a few more UFO's.
• There are some really long stretches of nothing happening where I can fast forward days and days. It makes the invasion feel lackluster and makes it too easy and fast to proceed.
• Tried to start endgame day 224 but couldn't choose a dropship so the game ended there. Overall, the first 100 days or so were really great, but the quality/pacing dropped the further I played. Anything beyond 160 days felt rushed and out of balance. I was ready for the last mission and the game was still introducing new UFO types, weapons etc. so the research structure was clearly incomplete.

I'll leave this game for now and will be back at some point in early access. Great work this far @Chris. Hopefully you'll be able to polish the whole game to be as nicely as the first few months are.

Thanks. Yeah, I think that's a sensible approach. I think you'll enjoy the process much more if you just drop in for a bit now and then and provide feedback, then give us a few months to change things.

I'm better aware of the pacing issues in the game now so hopefully when you next play it things will flow better in the mid-to-late game at least.

[Skitso]

Hey @Chris

 

Took a quick test on the latest playtest version and here's some additional random thoughts I typed down while playing:

 

Dialogue feels a bit too "mobile gamey" and also slows things down. Not sure if it adds enough to the game to warrant them? The portrait images are also somewhat low quality compared to for example what you have in unit portraits. This needs some time in the oven still I think.

Throwing smoke from inside the Skyhawk caused the grenade to hit the roof of the vehicle, generating no smoke. Throwing smoke on water also generates no smoke. Throwing a grenade from outside into a building goes through roof and not through window.

Roof toggle still doesn't work and roofs are still always disabled.

In geoscape, pop up windows should have a "close and slow time down" option like in X1. Currently the game proceeds with max speed as soon as you close the window.

I've had the END TURN button stop working a couple of times. Sorry I don't have any more specific info on this. Reloading an earlier save removes the issue.

Killed Xenonauts that are revived after a mission are marked as "wounded" in debriefing screen. I liked the old "Survived" better. Might also consider "Revived" or similar. Debriefing screen should also show kills for each soldier.

This is just a personal preference, but I'm not sure I like the "gamification" you've added. X1 was nice as a simulation where most game mechanics were under the hood and not spelled out exactly to the player like in some board game. Gamification is stuff like:
-Alien victory if 2 regions are lost in the monthly report
-Explanation of cleaner cells how exactly they work 
-Interrogation grants 15% damage bonus
Could this kind of info be more vague and realistic instead of spelling out exact numbers? (could this be an option, could be too difficult?)

Tactical pop ups like when unit is bleeding, dies, falls unconscious etc. could have the portrait and weapon icon of the unit in question.

I'd like to be able to rename units in soldiers tab.

Took the first cleaner cell. Felt it was way too punishing difficulty wise, especially considering there's reinforcements coming from turn 1 that increases the pressure to advance fast. Am I supposed to know that I need to have considerably better armor and weapons and more experienced troops before trying these missions? Nothing tells the player that these are kind of "boss missions" that are not meant to be tackled immediately like other missions.

Overall I'm having a blast and the added Cleaner plot is intriguing. Overall level of polish is also getting higher it seems, and the final UI looks great. Hope you manage to pull the final quality pass on the base screen backgrounds... they are one of the things still sticking a bit out. If you wish, I could check them out and see if I can make them look better?

Keep up the good work!

Edited June 10, 2023 by Skitso

[Chris]

On 6/10/2023 at 10:02 AM, Skitso said:

Hey @Chris

 

Took a quick test on the latest playtest version and here's some additional random thoughts I typed down while playing:

 

Dialogue feels a bit too "mobile gamey" and also slows things down. Not sure if it adds enough to the game to warrant them? The portrait images are also somewhat low quality compared to for example what you have in unit portraits. This needs some time in the oven still I think.

Throwing smoke from inside the Skyhawk caused the grenade to hit the roof of the vehicle, generating no smoke. Throwing smoke on water also generates no smoke. Throwing a grenade from outside into a building goes through roof and not through window.

Roof toggle still doesn't work and roofs are still always disabled.

In geoscape, pop up windows should have a "close and slow time down" option like in X1. Currently the game proceeds with max speed as soon as you close the window.

I've had the END TURN button stop working a couple of times. Sorry I don't have any more specific info on this. Reloading an earlier save removes the issue.

Killed Xenonauts that are revived after a mission are marked as "wounded" in debriefing screen. I liked the old "Survived" better. Might also consider "Revived" or similar. Debriefing screen should also show kills for each soldier.

This is just a personal preference, but I'm not sure I like the "gamification" you've added. X1 was nice as a simulation where most game mechanics were under the hood and not spelled out exactly to the player like in some board game. Gamification is stuff like:
-Alien victory if 2 regions are lost in the monthly report
-Explanation of cleaner cells how exactly they work 
-Interrogation grants 15% damage bonus
Could this kind of info be more vague and realistic instead of spelling out exact numbers? (could this be an option, could be too difficult?)

Tactical pop ups like when unit is bleeding, dies, falls unconscious etc. could have the portrait and weapon icon of the unit in question.

I'd like to be able to rename units in soldiers tab.

Took the first cleaner cell. Felt it was way too punishing difficulty wise, especially considering there's reinforcements coming from turn 1 that increases the pressure to advance fast. Am I supposed to know that I need to have considerably better armor and weapons and more experienced troops before trying these missions? Nothing tells the player that these are kind of "boss missions" that are not meant to be tackled immediately like other missions.

Overall I'm having a blast and the added Cleaner plot is intriguing. Overall level of polish is also getting higher it seems, and the final UI looks great. Hope you manage to pull the final quality pass on the base screen backgrounds... they are one of the things still sticking a bit out. If you wish, I could check them out and see if I can make them look better?

Keep up the good work!

Thanks. A few thoughts:

• Maybe I'll add some options to disable the dialogue. I imagine some people will like it, but others will find it annoying - and it'll probably get more annoying the longer you play.
• Reinforcements don't spawn from turn 1 in the Cleaner Cell missions, but I can see why you think they do - some of the gas mask troops are just present from turn 1 as standard enemies. I'll switch those back to the lower tier suited Cleaners instead, which will also make the mission a bit easier.
• The "gamification" issue is worth a discussion. I think overall it's a good idea to give players lots of information, especially about new systems you're adding that weren't in the first game - but I think perhaps it went a little too far in some places. I've changed the Cleaner Network popup now so it doesn't spell out the precise effects of making progress in it because that perhaps implied a little too much omnipotence.

[Skitso]

6 hours ago, Chris said:

• Maybe I'll add some options to disable the dialogue. I imagine some people will like it, but others will find it annoying - and it'll probably get more annoying the longer you play.

Yeah, that'd be cool. Or at least make them skippable with esc or pressing and holding space. They do provide nice flavor to the game, but might potentially become annoying on subseqent playthroughs.

6 hours ago, Chris said:

• Reinforcements don't spawn from turn 1 in the Cleaner Cell missions, but I can see why you think they do - some of the gas mask troops are just present from turn 1 as standard enemies. I'll switch those back to the lower tier suited Cleaners instead, which will also make the mission a bit easier.

I could have sworn I read it somewhere that the Cleaners will get reinforcements immediately in those missions... might have misread or misunderstood it then. How fast are they arriving in the Cell missions?

6 hours ago, Chris said:

• The "gamification" issue is worth a discussion. I think overall it's a good idea to give players lots of information, especially about new systems you're adding that weren't in the first game - but I think perhaps it went a little too far in some places. I've changed the Cleaner Network popup now so it doesn't spell out the precise effects of making progress in it because that perhaps implied a little too much omnipotence.

Perfect. Might be a good idea to change interrogation flavof text from "gives +15% damage" to something like: "interrogating this species will markedly improve our soldiers' ability to inflict damage to them"...

One more small funny (and not so serious) idea I got: at the start of the game there is this intro text that is written with a type writer. What if you changed the type writer sound effect to an old matrix printer sound? Wouldn't that fit better with the cold war theme and would also add some unique flavor and personality?

Edited June 15, 2023 by Skitso

[Kamehamehayes]

Personally, I am all for gamification and would encourage its use to be more prevalent. I have always played these kinds of games for the strategy and tactics and would like to have all mechanics laid out in a very explicit and often times quantifiable form. I want to know exactly what the victory/defeat conditions are, the exact increase in stats from each individual upgrade, and how things like cleaner cells work. In order to have the best strategic experience, the player must know how all of these things work and plan around them accordingly. For example, if the wording of the interrogation project was changed from "increases damage by 15%" to "our soldier can now deal more damage to them" (or something similar), it would irritate me by quite a lot because now what the project actually does is now vague. How much extra damage does it give? Is it worth the time invested in said interrogation? Would this extra damage even matter? None of these questions are answered, so the player has no way to integrate this into their grand strategy. 

So yeah, I think the gamey tooltips are quite necessary imo. 

[Chris]

14 hours ago, Skitso said:

Yeah, that'd be cool. Or at least make them skippable with esc or pressing and holding space. They do provide nice flavor to the game, but might potentially become annoying on subseqent playthroughs.

I could have sworn I read it somewhere that the Cleaners will get reinforcements immediately in those missions... might have misread or misunderstood it then. How fast are they arriving in the Cell missions?

Perfect. Might be a good idea to change interrogation flavof text from "gives +15% damage" to something like: "interrogating this species will markedly improve our soldiers' ability to inflict damage to them"...

One more small funny (and not so serious) idea I got: at the start of the game there is this intro text that is written with a type writer. What if you changed the type writer sound effect to an old matrix printer sound? Wouldn't that fit better with the cold war theme and would also add some unique flavor and personality?

Cutscenes already are skippable with Esc. I guess I should update the text to reflect that.

Reinforcements arrive after like 6 turns on the Cleaner Cell missions. You get a little conversation telling you when they start arriving.

I'm actually with Kamehamehayes on the interrogation projects, I don't think the damage bonus is a number we should be trying to obscure. The player would never find out how big the damage bonus is otherwise (without having to look in the game files).

The intro "cutscene" is going to be replaced by a proper cutscene before Early Access, hopefully, so I don't think there's any point trying to update that beforehand!

[Skitso]

1 hour ago, Chris said:

I'm actually with Kamehamehayes on the interrogation projects, I don't think the damage bonus is a number we should be trying to obscure. The player would never find out how big the damage bonus is otherwise (without having to look in the game files).

Yeah, you (and kame) are probably right about it. I'm just a sucker for immersion and flavor in my games.