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Xenonauts 2: Soldiers & Vehicles


Chris
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On 8/8/2022 at 2:19 AM, Lord Blade said:

The stamina idea is terrible. XCOM did that, to force players to rotate troops. And the mod to remove that feature ended up being one of the most downloaded of all time. lol

Developers don't need to force the player. The developer should make it so that it is more interesting for the player to change the troops himself than not to change them.

Ideally: the player needs to be given statistics on how the average accuracy, total firepower, armor protection, the average number of AP all teams that the player collects for a tactical task change.

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 If, the stamina system from the original Xcom is that stat where sometimes a soldier can't do certain actions when they have the tus to do it, right? I might be wrong on that front. The soldier stress/fatique is very different from the stamina system in xcom.

How i heard it was going to be eventually implemented was that after each mission a soldier gains more stress. This stress will reduce a soldier's moral stat at certain intervals (idk at what point). Once a soldier reaches 100 stress, they break down and have to spend time recovering. Stess is just reduced by waiting in the base for few days to a few weeks depending on how stressed the soldier is. I also heard that significant things that happen to a soldier in battle can add or reduce to the acrude stress, meaning that stress gain is not flat across all soldiers 

 

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58 minutes ago, Kamehamehayes said:

How i heard it was going to be eventually implemented was that after each mission a soldier gains more stress. This stress will reduce a soldier's moral stat at certain intervals (idk at what point). Once a soldier reaches 100 stress, they break down and have to spend time recovering.

At the strategic level of the game - will it be the same concept?

After each successful UFO mission, the country experiences more stress. This stress will reduce the moral characteristics of the state. As soon as a country reaches 100% stress, it breaks down and goes under alien control?

It's the same with aliens: after every UFO shot down, aliens experience a lot of stress. This stress will reduce their moral characteristics. As soon as the stress of the aliens reaches 100% stress, the aliens break down and take a pause of several weeks to recover.

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40 minutes ago, Komandos said:

At the strategic level of the game - will it be the same concept?

After each successful UFO mission, the country experiences more stress. This stress will reduce the moral characteristics of the state. As soon as a country reaches 100% stress, it breaks down and goes under alien control?

It's the same with aliens: after every UFO shot down, aliens experience a lot of stress. This stress will reduce their moral characteristics. As soon as the stress of the aliens reaches 100% stress, the aliens break down and take a pause of several weeks to recover.

Counties do already have panic which functions similarly. At certain intervals (50 and 75 panic I believe), the funding region will give less cash to the xenonauts, until they fall under control of the aliens if they have 100 panic or more at the end of the month. 

Currently, there is no stat like that effecting the aliens. Perhaps enough victories (or maybe a victory of a specific mission) will cause the aliens to pause the UOO-1 bombardment to spend some time recovering the fleet. It could be interesting, and it might do a lot to solve the issue of the Xen 2 geoscape being too similar to that of Xen 1. 

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11 minutes ago, Kamehamehayes said:

Perhaps enough victories (or maybe a victory of a specific mission) will cause the aliens to pause the UOO-1 bombardment to spend some time recovering the fleet. It could be interesting, and it might do a lot to solve the issue of the Xen 2 geoscape being too similar to that of Xen 1. 

If introduce alien panic into the game, then the player will not have to get very tired, defeating a lot of UFOs in ground missions. After several failed missions in a row (failed for UFOs), the aliens will give the player a break.

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Komandos, forgett the UFO-Missions and tactical Task Force.

1. Tactical Task Forces are for other Gernes [like upcomming JA 3, Standard-Military-Games like TF 1942, M1A1 Tank Platoon or 2nd WW Games], not for this Gerne [secret Anti-Alien-Organisation].

2. UFO-Missions are the most Time secondary Objectives and the Decission-Making in that Games after they get better and better with important Features. Forget old X-COM and Xenonauts 1. They are in Gameplay and Features from the Stone-Age. That the Developers from Goldhawk and Chaos Concept have noticed already and Refit their Games to the newest Feature- / Gameplay-Standard.

Short said for Dummys:

You have an Special-Force which is not annoucned by the Public. There you have not much Specialists for your Fighting Troopers and they all have to work in Rotation to get the Stress Level of the Organisition (esp. Soldiers) down.

The Main-Operations are to find out what the Aliens are doing, what Traitors they have under the Humans and fight out the Main-Burnings [Terror, Human Traitors and similar as well as doing Special-Missions against the Aliens / Human Traitors]. 

UFO Landing- / Crash-Sites [expect they are an Part of the Main-Missions and for R & D] are Secondary to hold the Stress-Level down. That can do the Army of the Founding-Nation where the UFO get shot down / landed, esp. after the Main-Important Missions get more and more.

 

Hope that are Features to reduce the Stress-Level faster comming in. I play the new XCOM Row (XCOM 1 and XCOM 2 with all DLCs) too, so the Features from XCOM 2 to reduce an high Stress Level faster are nice to have.

If you have played new XCOM, UFO ET-Row and Phoenix Point then you don´t need more then 20 Soldiers with upgradeable Vehicles to manage this Situations. And there is 1 other Point to remember: People costs a lot of Money, esp. if they grow up in Ranks and Experiance.

Edited by Alienkiller
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52 minutes ago, Alienkiller said:

If you have played new XCOM, UFO ET-Row and Phoenix Point then you don´t need more then 20 Soldiers with upgradeable Vehicles to manage this Situations.

I tried to play these games, but I absolutely didn't like them. Tactical groups are too small for a wide variety of tactical situations.

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53 minutes ago, Alienkiller said:

And there is 1 other Point to remember: People costs a lot of Money, esp. if they grow up in Ranks and Experiance.

And there is 1 other Point to remember: If people are attacked by an aggressor, then they protect themselves and their loved ones absolutely free of charge.

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58 minutes ago, Alienkiller said:

Komandos, forgett the UFO-Missions and tactical Task Force.

1. Tactical Task Forces are for other Gernes [like upcomming JA 3, Standard-Military-Games like TF 1942, M1A1 Tank Platoon or 2nd WW Games], not for this Gerne [secret Anti-Alien-Organisation].

2. UFO-Missions are the most Time secondary Objectives and the Decission-Making in that Games after they get better and better with important Features. Forget old X-COM and Xenonauts 1. They are in Gameplay and Features from the Stone-Age. That the Developers from Goldhawk and Chaos Concept have noticed already and Refit their Games to the newest Feature- / Gameplay-Standard.

If Xenonauts 2 is a quest game in which the main thing is to choose the right text line of research in a Scientific Laboratory, then why do we need tactical missions at all? What role do they play? After all, you can make them absolutely optional for the player.

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Komandos, Xenonauts 2 is an Game with an big Decission.

Either you make too many secondary Parts (UFOs) and loose the Game after a while the Primary Parts (Terror-Sites, Traitor- and other Special Parts) don´t get done.

Or you make only some secondary Parts (UFOs) and concentrate more on the Primary Parts when they show up (Terror-Sites, Traitor- and other Special Parts) and beat the Aliens / Traitors f. e. later on.

If you don´t like the Gameplay from Xenonauts 2, then the Gameplay from UFO-ET-Row is more for you.

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  • 2 months later...

Creating an account just because of the fatigue debate, I think adding fatigue is crucial for how this game is meant to be played. I think it's important to have a rest period after each mission that lasts for a day or so, long enough that it essentially forces you to create another squad. I think this is really important as it both teaches the player that you have replacements for losses and losing a battle isn't the end of things, and that when you do lose you have something to fall back on.

Playing X1 ironman, whenever I'd lose a few people I'd either restart the battle or I'd keep playing, the issue is when I kept playing I felt like it was pointless. I would lose every engagement because I lost all my equipment and lost my best soldiers. Being forced to have at least two squads spreads out the maximum loss you could suffer in one engagement, and that would be really important for player retention. Buff xp gains over what X1 had so soldiers still become better at a reasonable rate and it's perfect in my minds eye.

It's also vitally important supporting features are added with this, squad management elements and such in conjunction with the already present loadout system, so you don't spend 20 minutes after every fight reorganizing. Also creating an easy mode/check box for the option to not play with this system for the people that couldn't be convinced otherwise I think is a given.

 

Everything else I've seen so far with this game looks fantastic! The only other thing I could talk about having an issue with is vehicles, I never liked them in X1 since they took so many soldiers away while eating at precious research/engineering, but also don't like the idea of X2 essentially just having securitrons labeled as vehicles. I'd rather have 3x3 vehicles like in X1 but under their own special slot in the transports, and I think I saw transports have larger capacities anyway? Fine with keeping the securitrons though in someway since they're already in the game, just don't like the idea of them being the replacement.

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1 hour ago, feudalwulf said:

Creating an account just because of the fatigue debate, I think adding fatigue is crucial for how this game is meant to be played. I think it's important to have a rest period after each mission that lasts for a day or so, long enough that it essentially forces you to create another squad. I think this is really important as it both teaches the player that you have replacements for losses and losing a battle isn't the end of things, and that when you do lose you have something to fall back on.

If you calculate what level of adrenaline a soldier spent during the battle (by how many points, in total, his morale decreased during the battle), then you can based on this calculate how much time a soldier will need to recover. At the same time: the greater the accumulated stress, the worse the restoration of morale  (on the battlefield) will be and the worse other indicators (reaction, accuracy) will be.

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Feudalwulf, welcome to Xenonauts 2-Forum.

With the Stress-Level which is like the Fatigute-System in new XCOM (and the most Part of the Players love it about it´s realistic) I give you right. The Devs are in the ballancing Phase again like it seems in the Closed-Beta-Gametests from V.24 and his Hotfix-Versions. 

Squad Elements you don´t need, like in all Games of that UFO-Gerne. That´s more outlay for the Gamers which played and playing old and new XCOM, Phoenix Point, UFO-ET-Series, Xenonaut-Series and similar Games of the UFO-Strategy-Games-Gerne. Most of us Experts wouldn´t use that, about several good Reasons. 

Esp. Managing 20 Soldiers and some Offensive-Vehicles / Defensive-Vehicles don´t need such an Feature. More you don´t need to finish that Game (esp. when your Soldiers get more Payment per Rank-Upgrade) and all other normal monthly Costs. I personaly didn´t need more then 20 Soldiers in all new Games and in most of the old X-Com-Row to win the Game, if you concentrate on the important Parts like Terror-Missions, Alien-Special-Missions, Traitor-Missions, Storyline-Missions and similar.

The Devs already mentioned that they reduce the UFO-Missions for your Soldiers to concentrate on the important Missions. Means that you as Commander have to get the Payment instead of more UFO-Parts. In the first Missions you will have to catch UFOs, then you have to decide.

What the Vehicles belongs, you can upgrade the MARS and later ARES. There the UFO-ET-Row and Xenonauts 2 have a very good Part integrated to reduce to much Scrap you won´t use. And don´t worry, the Game ins´t finished yet. From what I remember from Testers which get deeper in the Game then I did so far, you can later use 1 or 2 Vehicles more to assist your Soldiers.

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4 hours ago, Alienkiller said:

The Devs already mentioned that they reduce the UFO-Missions for your Soldiers to concentrate on the important Missions. Means that you as Commander have to get the Payment instead of more UFO-Parts. In the first Missions you will have to catch UFOs, then you have to decide.

If all combat missions are monotonous, then a large number of them can really get boring. If combat missions are diverse and interesting for the player, then what's wrong if players can enjoy them more time?

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5 hours ago, Alienkiller said:

Esp. Managing 20 Soldiers and some Offensive-Vehicles / Defensive-Vehicles don´t need such an Feature. More you don´t need to finish that Game (esp. when your Soldiers get more Payment per Rank-Upgrade) and all other normal monthly Costs. I personaly didn´t need more then 20 Soldiers in all new Games and in most of the old X-Com-Row to win the Game, if you concentrate on the important Parts like Terror-Missions, Alien-Special-Missions, Traitor-Missions, Storyline-Missions and similar.

And then, in your opinion, what do the players who in 2022 continue to play the first UFO:1-2 and the multiplicity of mods of these games (OpenXcom) need??? There is no modern graphics in this game. There is no modern mechanics here. The only thing they have (and what is not in other games in this series) are difficult battles in which you will need 26 soldiers.

If the player wanted to make a modification for X1 - in order to make X1 more similar to UFO:1-2, then he did not have such an opportunity. Because the game had software restrictions on the number of soldiers. And if the player wants to make a modification for X2 so that this modification is more like UFO:1-2 (to increase the number of soldiers in battle for aliens and for the player), then why do you think that players do not have the right to receive such a modification of X2???

Why should programmers limit the player's ability to create such a modification of the game? What good is it that a player will not be able to play tactical combat the way it was in the canon, even if he is willing to spend time creating a modification?

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On 5/20/2020 at 12:38 PM, Chris said:

Stress / Fatigue: at one point we had a fatigue system in the game to encourage players to rotate their soldiers. It's been disabled for a while so would probably need a bit of work to get working again, but we're planning to give it a test once the game is fully playable to see if it adds anything to the gameplay experience.

Copy here:

https://www.goldhawkinteractive.com/forums/index.php?/topic/26143-v24-thoughts/&do=findComment&comment=189935

 

Ideally: low morale is what makes soldiers run from the battlefield, hide for cover and forces them to abandon the UFO assault (terminate the mission). Unfortunately: this is poorly implemented in the game. A panicked soldier runs anywhere but to the place of his salvation.

I believe that a panicked soldier should run to the evacuation site and leave the battlefield on his own. (To desert). This does not happen in the game. In addition, a panicked soldier should receive a bonus to the range of movement. Namely: a panicked soldier has more AP than in a normal state. (Stress). Also, a soldier who has experienced panic due to stress can no longer participate in the next battle (rest is required).

Edited by Komandos
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That’s an cool Feature we tested out and it works. That Feature get implemented in new XCOM-Row the first time.

It makes the Game very interesting and have a Side-Effect. The Player have to decide to make important Missions (Special-Missions to help Humanity etc.) or secondary Missions (UFO Crash-Sites).

Last but not Least is the Rank-Payment very important. No Soldier / Specialist will go in an Suicidal-Mission without extra Payment. The higher the Rank the better the Payment.

That will have an other Side-Effect too. That Specialists have to be protected with the best of the best you can have. If they die you will loose a lot of XP as well as raise the Stress level of the lower graduated Specialists.

That make the Game to an very good one and no 08/15-Game where you have unlimited Money and Specialists / Soldiers (sorry to say that, but Xenonauts 1 was in the 08/15-Gerne).

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42 minutes ago, Alienkiller said:

Last but not Least is the Rank-Payment very important. No Soldier / Specialist will go in an Suicidal-Mission without extra Payment. The higher the Rank the better the Payment.

How much money do you need to pay a person to start protecting yourself, your family and your own home from the killer who came to destroy them?

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1 hour ago, Alienkiller said:

The Player have to decide to make important Missions (Special-Missions to help Humanity etc.) or secondary Missions (UFO Crash-Sites).

UFO crash sites - do not give the player anything new and valuable after the player has been there and collected all the artifacts.

From the point of view of economics - during the battle at the UFO crash site - the player risks losing more than gaining.

I'm not thinking that this will be a serious choice for the player: either send a team to the UFO crash site and, if you're lucky, earn a cup of coffee for the whole team; or complete an important quest task and advance through the plot.

The UFO crash site loses its strategic importance after the first mission.

(In the original UFO: 1-2, the UFO crash site and the UFO landing site were the main source of resources and income. And that's why they were important to the game.)

Edited by Komandos
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1 hour ago, Alienkiller said:

That make the Game to an very good one and no 08/15-Game where you have unlimited Money and Specialists / Soldiers (sorry to say that, but Xenonauts 1 was in the 08/15-Gerne).

Scarcity does not mean a field of wide opportunities for the player. Most likely, this means that the player will not be able to afford much. 

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Kommandos, if you played Xenonauts 2 then you know what we Founders and Beta-Testers mean. Therefore it makes no Sense to discuss the Features what makes the Game interresting like the upgraded UFO ET-Series, Phoenix Point with DLCs and new XCOM-Series.

 

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20 minutes ago, Alienkiller said:

UFO ET-Series

UFO ET-Series had a huge technological tree, as a result of which the mission at the UFO crash site (collecting and capturing constantly emerging new artifacts and alien technologies) was constantly of strategic importance.

It was impossible to do this: capture a UFO with all alien technologies once and no longer fly on such missions.

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35 minutes ago, Alienkiller said:

Kommandos, if you played Xenonauts 2 then you know what we Founders and Beta-Testers mean. Therefore it makes no Sense to discuss the Features what makes the Game interresting like the upgraded UFO ET-Series, Phoenix Point with DLCs and new XCOM-Series.

I haven't played Xenonauts 2. Testing is closed. I watched videos on YouTube.

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Vids on YouTube are unimportant for Xenonauts 2 about several Reasons. So delete it from your Mind and what you have seen there.

The Game is still in main Closed-Beta WIP Progress. Until it´s ready for an light Open Beta / Early Access for the Public. Then you and the others will see the Differnce to the announced Games and the Predecessor.

The cool Thing is that the Soldiers / Vehicles are Modular-Upgradable in many Parts and that it have many more surprisses, which we Founders / Beta-Testers and the Devs can´t talk about.

Be patient and wait until the Public can see the cool new Stuff / Features / Refits / Reworks etc. themselfs.

Edited by Alienkiller
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20 hours ago, Alienkiller said:

The cool Thing is that the Soldiers / Vehicles are Modular-Upgradable in many Parts and that it have many more surprisses, which we Founders / Beta-Testers and the Devs can´t talk about.

The main form of the player's interaction with aliens: conflict in the sky through fighter planes and conflict on the ground through tactical groups.

These conflicts are the culmination and outcome of everything else. Everything else is just auxiliary things and functions.

There is no direct collision with aliens at the strategic level in the game. The player is unable to guess the aliens' next move because he does not have enough information about them and what rules of the game affect the aliens' actions.

In fact: the strategic part of the game is the passage of the plot maze for the required period of time.

I doubt that game improvements that do not affect the quality of battles in the sky and do not affect the quality of battles on the ground can significantly improve the gameplay.

 

The main form of the player's interaction with aliens: conflict in the sky through fighter planes and conflict on the ground through tactical groups.

These conflicts are the culmination and result of everything else. Everything else is just auxiliary things and functions, but not the most important ones.

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