A suggestion concerning base batteries

[Max_Caine]

I have played many X-Com-a-likes that have been released into the wild. All have their various strengths and weaknesses. All have taken the basic forumla and in some cases tweaked in, in some cases advanced it, and in others, changed it beyond all recognition. However, I believe I can safely say that every X-Comish game that has ever been released has neither changed nor advanced, but merely tweaked the base defence mission.

I will touch only lightly on base defence missions themselves. Others have done that before me. Chris has already spoken about what he wants to change and tweak in base defence missions. What I would like to talk about is the stage before the base defence mission - the point where the base opens up with whatever defences you decided to build, in the hopes of shooting down the attacking UFO.

Game over. Insert coin to try again.

Ha ha. Sorry, did I say defences you had built? What defences. In X-Comish games to date, an attacking enemy ship is usually built along the lines of "like Titanic but with guns.". The chances of early to mid-tier base defences shooting down an attacking alien ship are laughable at best, and moronic at worst when you realise how much money and space you devoted to the equivalent of a ground based peashooter. Base defence philosophy is usually more centered around setting the design of your base so it minimises the number of spawn points which can get access to the rest of your base. Then mining the hell out of the choke point.

Uh, sir? They're coming through the air ducts!

But this defence and design philosophy poisons the rest of the game. When you develop ImaCharginMahLazor-grade base defences, the little thoughts that tickle in the back of the mind are:

1) Will it really shoot down invading ships?

2) Hey, I scored big time in the last base attack. Sure hope it happens again!

In fact, the general uselessness of base defences has lead to some developers not bothering at all and cutting straight to the ground-based combat. Take UFO: Aftermath, where you build garrisons with friendly AI troopers, rather than focus on long-range pew pew.

Chris has already written how aliens will be injured/killed on a percentage chance based upon how much damage is done to the alien vessel before it lands. I would like to propose an evolution of this concept, which gives increased value to early-tier batteries while not underplaying the importance of base defence missions. My proposal is this: permit defence batteries to shoot at discrete portions of alien ships, rather than at an amorphous whole, and apply a varying effect on the subsequent base defence mission if the portion of the ship the batteries shot is is destroyed.

For example, let us say that an alien ship has a hull, engines, cargo space and navigation. Each has it's own level of HP. If you choose to shoot at the hull (most HP, easiest to hit) and bring it to zero, the ship is destroyed. Shoot the engine (moderate HP, moderately hard to hit), the ship crash-lands and the mission becomes a recovery mission. Shoot cargo space (moderate HP, easy to hit) and x percent of aliens are killed/injured. Shoot navigation (least HP, hardest to hit) the alien ship doesn't land where it should and the player can pick the spawn point for the aliens in the subsequent base defence. I'm sure there are many permutations of discrete alien parts each different alien ship could have (for example, large alien ships might have two engines, or multiple cargo areas) but that's the basic idea.

It adds value to defences from early to late tier. Early tier defences, while having no chance of taking down an invading ship would stand of chance of destroying minor but critical elements of the invading vessel which then positively influences the subsequent base defence mission. More effective late tier defences can elminate major components, enabling the player to dictate the strategic direction of base defence missions. And it does all this without taking away the importance of base defence.

[Max_Caine]

Having written this, another thought springs to mind. Why not have two discrete types of base defence mission? The first kind is the traditional "defend this base or lose it" base defence mission we all know and love. The second kind of base defence mission is the raid. In this kind of mission, aliens are not out to destroy the base. Instead they land, cause as much havoc and damage as possible in a fixed period of time, then get the hell out of dodge. Allowing a raid-style of base defence lets earlier grades of alien ship carry out base attack missions. Say, corvettes, for example. They don't have enough troop space to overrun a base, but they could carry a strike team to sabotage and damage a base. This then feeds back into making earlier tier defence batteries even more useful, as they will be more effective against smaller ships.

[RotGtIE]

I got it, I got it.

Add base defense facilities and you get to play Missile Command before defending a base assault in the battlescape.

[Belmakor]

Seems a little strange to add a whole new tactical part to the game for the once or twice it happens.

[RotGtIE]

Actually, although I was just joking around at first, on second thought I think a missile command base defense would be a blast. Xenonauts already upgrades the previous "click cautious attack to win" air combat simulation into a more fun deal - the same could be done with the less glamorous base defense, too.

The main reason I wound up not getting any base defenses in X-Com was, like most of my reasons for doing things in X-Com, motivated by loot. Any damage you dealt to the incoming battleship reduced the number of enemies you'd face in the ground battle, possibly to zero. You never recovered any UFO parts and any aliens that didn't show up didn't bring their equipment with them. In a strange way, base defense facilities just made base defense missions less lucrative - anything destroyed before the ground battle, you wouldn't recover!

I think that motivation has to be changed before base defense facilities can be designed well. If base defense facilities don't butt in on the loot, then they'll actually be worth having. Otherwise, we're all probably going to do what we've always done - forget the base defenses and say "bring it on."

[Gauddlike]

I suggested a while back (around the time air combat was added I think) that your base should appear on an air combat screen when you are attacked.

Then you have the option of controlling your base defences like a stronger, immobile, interceptor.

Up to two interceptors currently landed at that base could also join in.

If you shoot down an enemy ship then you should be able to assault it like any other, unless your base defences are considered powerful enough to have destroyed it completely.

These aren't aircraft mounted weapons after all but larger, much more powerful ground to air weapons systems.

If the incoming ship can also damage your base with its weapons before it even gets close enough to assault then you have another reason for defences.

You may miss out on loot by destroying the attacker but you will keep your base systems in better shape.

Remember as well that aliens in your base will be out to destroy your facilities rather than the x-com version of wandering around trying to kill your troops.

Less plasma rifles at the end of the mission could well be a small price to pay for saving your radar, labs, and workshops from being damaged.

[Kimberly]

I agree that base defense could be incorporated into the air combat screen, with a little work. Turn your batteries this or that way to make sure enemy craft are in your kill zone, and allow you to control a fighter or two as well. If you shoot down the UFOs close to your base, it becomes a regular ground combat defense mission. Shoot them down at the edge of the map, and a crash site appears on the Geoscape as normal.

[Max_Caine]

I agree with RoGtIe that in other X-Com games, a base defence mission was an awesome opportunity for loot (in fact I think I did in my initial post). Base defence missions in other Xcom games feature a large number of well armed aliens. Terminating those well-armed aliens translated in lots of vendor trash that could be sold off for a hefty profit from the aliens and the landing craft that always seemed to get caught.

However, I think that there are already are two motivating factors other than loot. In other Xcomlike games, it didn’t matter how much damage you did to the internals of a base, they would still operate at full capacity. In Xenonauts, I believe that the more damaged a module is, the more diminished a capacity it will operate at. So, if you let a battleship land unmolested and disgorge its entire landing party, the subsequent battle is more likely to damage your base more than if you took some pot shots at it first. What the tipping point from loot sales to repair costs and the hidden cost of diminished output is, I don’t know.

Also, each base has a command centre. A commander centre that if destroyed, you loose the base. No other Xcomlike game has that – it’s game over only when your final man dies bleeding from a dozen wounds. The motivation is there for players to shoot down or damage alien ships before they land, and to aggressively engage aliens in the base rather than hang back and play a long game.

But if we go back to loot for a second, loot is another reason why shooting discrete portions of an alien ship is better than shooting the whole. You can influence base defence missions without loosing out on that sweet, sweet loot.

[XenoNUT]

I like where you are going with this, but maybe instead of being able to target a specific part of the incoming UFO, it should just be down to chance. Such as:

20% chance 10% crew killed

10% chance 20% crew killed

10% chance engine destroyed

10% chance nav systems destroyed

2% chance UFO destroyed

etc., with the %s changing based on the strength of your defenses.

Each scenario could end in a slightly different result. Engine destroyed for instance could result in the UFO dropping on the spot and killing most of the crew, or crashing nearby and you'd have to send a dropship. Nav systems destroyed could lead to the UFO overshooting its target, flying (more) erratically (than usual) and possibly crashing. Maybe whatever system enables them to exit to space could be damaged/destroyed. Weapons systems could be damaged. I'm sure there are some other possibilities I haven't thought of.

I can see it now, one base attack attempt ends in a completely destroyed UFO, one ends in a damaged UFO which then subsequently crashes into open ocean. Another ends in a crash on land which requires sending a dropship. One is damaged and unable to land or escape to space- so you scramble fighters to intercept the ailing craft and then send in the dropship to clean up.

BUT the majority would still end in a base defense mission, depending of course on the size of the incoming ship and the strength of base defenses, and due to a lower chance of the other events taking place.

Also- and this is wicked- wouldn't the alien ship have some kind of air-to-surface attack? We see on the geoscape that they are attacking fishing vessels and strafing oil rigs left and right. Isn't it likely they would try to soften up their target before sending down their shock troops? If the invading craft makes it to the base it may fire on the base before landing, resulting in damage to base structures and (possibly?) dead Xenonaut soldiers/scientists/engineers. Maybe before they land there are several rounds in which the base defenses and the ufo exchange fire (instead of just the base defenses as in X-COM:EU).

Hmm that makes me think of the possibility of another base structure that generates shielding, or maybe just a "Patriot missile-equivalent" defense-only structure.

So if you had no purely defensive 'shielding' or anti-projectile/beam tech, the aliens might just park over your base and rain down destruction until they had exhausted their weapons batteries or run out of fuel or whatever- no need for them to send a landing party. However if you were sufficiently protected and their shots weren't getting through they would go 'boots? on the ground.'

I do like your idea of a raid where the aliens come in for X number of turns, do as much damage as possible, and then retreat to their ship and take off.

Hopefully at least part of what I wrote makes sense

Edited May 28, 2012 by XenoNUT

[Gauddlike]

I would tie the crew fatalities to the damage of the ship rather than a shot having a chance to kill x crew members.

As the ship takes damage there is a chance of crew members being killed.

For example each percentage point of hull damage has a small chance to kill a single crew member while each critical system destroyed has a larger chance to kill multiple enemies.

The chance of destroying a critical subsystem would work in the same way it does in any other air combat.

The way I see raiding parties working would be if raiding enemies have different mission objectives.

Instead of brining heavy weapons and trying to force their way through to the command centre they might prefer to head straight for your defensive weapons and take those out to make their exit easier.

Actually I would have the chance of a raiding mission change based on enemy race.

Androns for example would be more likely to assault while Sebillians would be more likely to raid, as their background suggests they prefer hit and run tactics.

On either mission type the enemy objectives should vary.

As well as their race I would like to see your base layout have an influence on their decision.

If you have built your base so all access points are on the opposite side of the base from the command centre then they may be more likely to hit and run.

[Chris]

Hmmm. While these ideas are viable, I'm not sure they're worth the time required to implement them. The reason we added the formula for base defences reducing the size of the attacking force even when they do not shoot down the UFO is to make it worthwhile to build defences, even if you don't have enough firepower to actually shoot down the craft.

Overall, the ground combat is meant to be the deep part of the game and I'm reluctant to overcomplicate the rest of it too much. Under our system it's pretty clear what's going on and the process doesn't take any longer than 5 seconds before the actual combat starts.

[Gauddlike]

Just firing a few ideas into the air, see where they land.

None of us know what you are planning so we have to make something up.

Never know, it might end up in the game and then we will be famous.

Well in a 'telling all my friends that was my idea' way.