Sentelin Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Actually you can.Current XNT v6 script is not compatible with new LoS system,so you will have to change it a bit (in general just play with values that affect LoS) .Also you can do all kind of stuff without access to source code and you would be able to do it even more if Illunak finishes his work on AI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drages Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 maybe its about using passive aliens rather then aggressive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
podbelski Posted March 26, 2015 Author Share Posted March 26, 2015 maybe its about using passive aliens rather then aggressive? I don't think so but... who knows? Maybe I should run a test making all the aliens aggressive... but I expect either it will be mostly the same thing or all of them will be spawned near the dropship Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentelin Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 (edited) Making them aggressive won't make the cut.As I said problem is with how AI script from XNT V 6 is tweaked.Its tweakead in mind of old LoS algorithm and it worked well then, now what you get is alliens runnimg,camping gettimg stuck in infinite back/forth running loop and costant tries to sneak behind soldier back through whole squad (this is doable because of persistent LOS but AI is trying too hard to use this exploit making game limear and not interesting. .I started with making changes in script to improve AI behaviour but I have never finished and TD single handedly just before release did bunch of tweaking that didn't make sense (including. all changes I made) and were not tested , in your place I would disregard xnt script all together and start from scratch. Or wait for CE 0.33.Actually both of u could help llunak with testing his changes and along way get familiar with how AI will function,not to say that you will have functional AI scripts once 0.33 is released ,so you won't have to build AI fscrip rom scratch but build upon existing. Edited March 26, 2015 by Sentelin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
podbelski Posted March 26, 2015 Author Share Posted March 26, 2015 just to clarify - the AI script is just those settings in aiprops.xml? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentelin Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 (edited) Yes,all AI behavior with small of exception of melee aliens is defined there.Melee aliens have melee weapons so if you tweak reaction modifier ( or something like that i forgot a name and I am not in front of computer right now) in weapons_gc soldiers will have more, less or not at all chance to trigger reaction fire when they face them,so this could make them more aggressive, daring or passive. Behavior of aliens (Passive,Aggressive, Defensive-UFO contents) triggers certain patching behavior but that's about it. Edited March 26, 2015 by Sentelin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TacticalDragon Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Making them aggressive won't make the cut.As I said problem is with how AI script from XNT V 6 is tweaked.Its tweakead in mind of old LoS algorithm and it worked well then, now what you get is alliens runnimg,camping gettimg stuck in infinite back/forth running loop and costant tries to sneak behind soldier back through whole squad (this is doable because of persistent LOS but AI is trying too hard to use this exploit making game limear and not interesting..I started with making changes in script to improve AI behaviour but I have never finished and TD single handedly just before release did bunch of tweaking that didn't make sense (including. all changes I made) and were not tested , in your place I would disregard xnt script all together and start from scratch. Or wait for CE 0.33.Actually both of u could help llunak with testing his changes and along way get familiar with how AI will function,not to say that you will have functional AI scripts once 0.33 is released ,so you won't have to build AI fscrip rom scratch but build upon existing. Actually the main steam of AI scripts is there but there are 3 or 5 files that affect scripts. Sentelin is right about XNT AI module is build with older LoS but in my experiences it work well. Need some adjustements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentelin Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 (edited) Well I am now part of CP program and from the look in source code, I can tell you TD that aiprops.xml is all that matters in the end.Sure there are some "outside " factors that affect behavior in certain way (like an example of melee aliens I mentioned above ) but what AI will do with it,is ultimately decided within aiprops.xml Edited March 27, 2015 by Sentelin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
podbelski Posted March 26, 2015 Author Share Posted March 26, 2015 I can tell how terror site GC goes for me: - first half is a battle near the dropship, usually lots of action. Some aliens keep coming from the middle parts of teh map - eventually this is over, some aliens - between 1/2 and 1/3 of the initial quantity - keep sitting in buildings on the farther part of the map - if you come close they go out and fight. So better is to wipe them cautiously, one by one I don't see what can be significantly changed here. I.e. what exactly do you want to see? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TacticalDragon Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Well I am now part of CP program and from the look in source code, I can tell you TD that aiprops.xml is all that matters in the end.Sure there are some "outside " factors that affect behavior in certain way (like an example of melee aliens I mentioned above ) but what AI will do with it is ultimately decided within aiprops.xml Look sentelin I dont know what is your problem with me, but you dont need to tell me, Im not interested. There are other files that count the number of loops and iterations in calculations. Im only trying here to lend all my knoledge to people like Podbelski that want to make his own tweaks. Otherwise you can visit your psychiatrist cuz non of my message were for you. @ Podbelski, if you are interested in builds your own scripts and adjust AI prop parameters led me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Caine Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Watching this thread carefully now. TD, that comment on seeing a psychicatrist - completely unecessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentelin Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 (edited) Ok,so reason why fight at the beginning is so tense is that aliens are set to be aggressive,have values that enchant their awareness shoot potential and you can to some degree control how close to landing point will alien be positioned (so that's reason why as soon as you exit helicopter,you are in though spot). There probably other factors that have their role but without close look I can't tell. I believe this part should remain as it is,however second part where aliens bulk up in buildings and come out when you get closer is what bothers me.So some thoughts: -Remaining aliens should regroup instead and then advance.However this could lead to impossible victory given how aliens in XNT are strong but it's doable. -If they tend to stay inside building then they should do so and wait for assault on building before making move.This can be done by making AI "deaf".You see almost all aliens in XNT have high positive NearestEnemy value.This value tells AI where is nearest enemy.So you get why they get out of hiding as soon as you get close to them. The higher you set value (as you can see in aiprops comment it's preferable 0.2) AI will have knowledge that enemy is somewhere nearby on global level,not exact location but it's precise and take into count all obstacles.Try lowering it below 0.2 because then,AI will be aware of only nearby enemies. -AI is probably too aware of where their allies have died and they tend to avoid those tiles which probably (actually most likely) is result of why AI position aliens in building at far end.So I checked script of XNT aiprops and I have seen this: <!-- Scripts used: Aggressive, Defensive, Guard, Command, Civilian, FriendlyAI; Currently only Pathing is overridable --> <ScriptOverrides MODMERGE="update"> <Passive MODMERGE="update"> [b]<!-- Ensure that the Passive AI doesn't respond to requests for help that eagerly (Goal) and sticks more to hidden locations -->[/b>>This is for passive AI[/u] <Pathing Environment = "-20" Sight="0.5" Sound="-0.3" Cover="-5" ShotPotential="-10" EnemyInfluence="-2" AlliedInfluence="-1" Ambush="-20" [b]Trepidation="20"[/b] >>> Holy cow .. EnemyLOS="1.3" AlliedLOS="0.5" ProbabilisticSearch="-0.8" NearestEnemy="-0.5" Goal="-5" /> </Passive> <Aggressive MODMERGE="update"> [b]<!-- Ensure that the Passive AI doesn't respond to requests for help that eagerly (Goal) and sticks more to hidden locations -->[/b][u]>>This is for aggressive AI[/u] <Pathing Sight="2.3" Cover="-3" ShotPotential="-18" EnemyInfluence="-4" AlliedInfluence="-1" [b]Ambush="-20"[/b] [b]Trepidation="8"[/b] EnemyLOS="1.3" ProbabilisticSearch="-3.0" NearestEnemy="-1.3" Goal="-10" /> </Aggressive> <Defensive MODMERGE="update"> [b]<!-- Ensure that the Passive AI doesn't respond to requests for help that eagerly (Goal) and sticks more to hidden locations -->[/b]>>This is patching for defensive alien[/u] <Pathing Sight="0.7" Sound="-0.3" Cover="-5" ShotPotential="-18" EnemyInfluence="-0.5" Ambush="-20" EnemyLOS="1.4" ProbabilisticSearch="-3" NearestEnemy="-0.9" Goal="-10" /> <Decision MinimumAccuracy = "0.15" MinimumAccuracyGrenade = "0.10" /> </Defensive> <Command MODMERGE="update"> [<!-- Ensure that the Passive AI doesn't respond to requests for help that eagerly (Goal) and sticks more to hidden locations -->>>[u]This is for command AI[/u] <Pathing Sight="0.8" Cover="-7" ShotPotential="-25" EnemyInfluence="-4" AlliedInfluence="-2" [b]Ambush="-20"[/b] [b]Trepidation="10"[/b] EnemyLOS="1.5" ProbabilisticSearch="-0.3" NearestEnemy="-1.5" Goal="-15" /> <Decision MinimumAccuracy = "0.15" MinimumAccuracyGrenade = "0.10" /> </Command> <Guard MODMERGE="update"> [<!-- Ensure that the Passive AI doesn't respond to requests for help that eagerly (Goal) and sticks more to hidden locations -->>>[u]This for guard AI and it seems nothing is overridden here[/u] <Pathing Sight="2.5" Cover="-5" EnemyInfluence="-3" ShotPotential="-20" AlliedInfluence="-0.5" Ambush="-30" [b]Trepidation="10"[/b] EnemyLOS="3.0" ProbabilisticSearch="-3" NearestEnemy="-1.5" Goal="-10" /> <Decision MinimumAccuracy = "0.15" MinimumAccuracyGrenade = "0.1" /> </Guard> </ScriptOverrides></Behaviour> So what do you see here ? First,it's messy work of copy/paste and you can hardly make any sense.Second Trepidation is set high.Try lowering to 5-6 because aliens get racial Trepidation bonus a top of patching. Also to get aliens act less "sneaky" and somewhat natural start by setting setting Ambush somewhere between -10 and 0.0. For same reason as Trepidation (besides patching there are racial bonuses too ..). This is enough to get you going but heed my advice,you should start building aiprops from scratch.XNT script has grown large in size and many important elements seem identical so you will often miss them (spaghetti code or close to that ... it happens when you copy/paste and just modify a bit,instead of writing part of code.Well it's close to that anyway since you can't call XML sheet a code really). Along the way you will also have better understanding of AI if you start anew,rather than scratch your head looking at XNT script and ask yourself "how","why","where". Edited March 27, 2015 by Sentelin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
podbelski Posted March 27, 2015 Author Share Posted March 27, 2015 thanks for the guidance, I'm just not sure do I want to mess with the AI. I'm fine with how it works now, so I'll wait till XCE AI updates and will see maybe I'll change my mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Caine Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Remember that aliens hiding in buldings was the result of player complaints that the aliens in a Terror mission were too aggressive. Prior to aliens being spread out what would happen was successive waves of aliens would ahead straight for the dropship, making each terror mission a recreation of the Alamo which was concidered inadequate and a waste of the map. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
podbelski Posted March 27, 2015 Author Share Posted March 27, 2015 I can only add that cleaning the buildings is also a dangerous task, and often it's easier to lose a soldier during this second part of the operation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drages Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 I think we need a good basic AI coding guide.. 2,3 lines for every command with its limit and results.. I want to be a tester about this but i still dont know any idea about many of the aiprop commands.. so i think you need to know every command because even one number can change the AI so much.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erenoth02 Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I installed XNT 6.0 on a fresh steam installation of Xenonaughts and all of the basic weaponry is missing, Frag Grenades, Rifles, Shotguns, only the researched weapons can be used, is this a mod feature??? It means I cant equip my squad until I have researched and manufactured Multiammo weapons or the alternate shotguns, ak47 excetra, have the basic weapons been removed?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
podbelski Posted April 13, 2015 Author Share Posted April 13, 2015 nah that's definitely a bad install, alas I can't guess the cause right now what is your Xenonauts version? Is it 1.5? have you installed the XCE? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erenoth02 Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 3rd install was the charm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Burstyn Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Installation0. Prepare a clean game build, should be v1.09+XCE0.31 or above. I haven't tried it with Xenonauts v1.5, at least one player reported XNT compatibility problems. 1. Download the XNT 6.0 here It is already patched to work with the latest XCE and bundled with FitH "No smoke no Fire Edition". Install into the mods folder -OR- 1a. get the original unpatched XNT ...and patch it yourself 2. Download the OOS mod pack, extract into the mods folder: [ATTACH]6257[/ATTACH] In case of reinstallation just overwrite everything. 3. The mod pack comes in 4 pieces, order them as follows and activate: [ATTACH=CONFIG]6171[/ATTACH] 4. Play! And please read the following two posts for some hints. PS I also recommend the "Armored Assault!" mod from Kabill. It should have lesser priority in the modloader otherwise vehicle prices will be inconsistent with my mod. Atm lategame prices might be still out of line, I'll fix these a bit later. When I download Out of the Sun v1.12.zip I do NOT get the 4 pieces specified...I just the XNT patched (Listed as 5 in list)...I do not get 1 thru 4 with author podbelski. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
podbelski Posted April 17, 2015 Author Share Posted April 17, 2015 it works normally for me. You will have the file "Out of the Sun v1.12.zip", just unpack it and you will see 4 folders, these are the "pieces"... place them into the "mods" folder along with XNT and XCE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Burstyn Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 It showed up as a .php file. After I downloaded it I changed the file type to zip and it worked. Now I have the 4 folders. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aZmoDen Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Hello, is this compatible with xce .34? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDCollie Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Hello, is this compatible with xce .34? I downloaded and tried it yesterday; 3 missions without crashes or trouble (well, aside from my troops dying horribly anyway, but that's normal) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aZmoDen Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Hmm that sounds promising. Ive restarted an insane difficulty game 3 times now, and i just cant do more than 1 more. The start is so, frustratingly difficult i only have one more effort left in me. Fingers crossed! *ps* cheers for the response! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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