screeg Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I decided to pre-order Xenonauts today, not knowing that Desura operates exactly like Steam, that you have to run their client in order to play the game. Since I'm against DRM on principle I would not have purchased Xenonauts had I realized this. I thought Desura was a dissimilar alternative to Steam where I could download the game and play it without using a third party client. Please let me know if I'm mistaken. Once the full game is complete, will purchasers have the option to download an actual stand-alone copy of the game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorlom Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) Right now there is a zip file that you can download without the desura client running. I do not know about the finished game, but to me it seems unlikely since that would make pirateing the game very easy. Out of curiosity I've never understood DRM hate, why are you against steam and desura on principle? PS. Well never is a stretch. At times DRM has been really intrusive, but DRMs are still evolving. I don't see any problems with Steam, so I'm curious what issues people have with them. Edited March 15, 2012 by Gorlom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screeg Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 Glad you asked! I'm against DRM because it serves only one practical purpose: it inconveniences and aggravates your paying fans. All games are pirated, usually within 24 hours of being released. There is no DRM that defeats this. Barring the worst kind of DRM out there, the kind that forces you to have an open internet connection at all times, there never will be a form of DRM that defeats pirates. I don't want to use a third-party client to play a game on my machine because it's superfluous. It's pointless trash on my computer and an extra step for no reason whatsoever. By installing Desura I feel like I'm supporting DRM. Many people are fans of Steam. They like it because it provides a convenient service, and they're happy to use it. Steam also makes boatloads of money for developers. I have no gripe with companies providing their games on Steam... as long as there is a non-DRM alternative. Earlier this week I decided to support the Wasteland 2 Kickstarter project, but first I sent them a message because it seemed like Steam would be their DD system of choice (I've never installed it and don't intend to). I see similar opinions on RPGWatch and other online forums. They replied that the finished game would definitely be available as a direct download and I was happy to give them my money. Finally, I've paid for Xenonauts and I'm 100% certain I won't be disappointed. But if there isn't any alternative by the time it is released I will "pirate" a game I've already paid for so I can uninstall Desura. At that point what did you accomplish by insisting I use Desura in the first place? I hope I don't sound pissy or angry, but I've done quite a lot of reading on the topic of DRM and if you look into it more yourself you'll find that all kinds of successful indies (Gaslamp Games, Mojang, CG Projekt Red) are rejecting DRM outright. The battle against pirates should be fought on the merit of your project and the level of community support, not by introducing ineffective and pointless hurdles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorlom Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I see useing nonintrusive DRM (such as steam) as a moral standpoint that you don't like people pirateing. You havent acomplished anything sure, but at least you have voiced that opinion. Piracy can only really be fought by makeing it something the general public frown upon (and big companies do a pisspoor job at that). The only way to really get rid of the DRMs is for the users to stop resorting to piracy, so that the big companies doesnt need to try and prevent it. Would be fun discussing my thoughts on nature of mankind and social structures and norms but this is hardly the place. =P (And quite frankly they are rather shallow thoughts on the subject) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screeg Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 In response to my query about Steam, inXile changed the message at the top of their (already successful in less than 48h) Kickstarter campaign: Digital Downloable copy of game DRM free for PC. This low price only available for those who helped fund. Also your party will start with a unique and quirky skill. (It won't affect game balance.) What you said here: The only way to really get rid of the DRMs is for the users to stop resorting to piracy doesn't make a lot of sense. I've already referenced several different companies who have committed to using no DRM whatsoever. DRM isn't native to software applications. Using it is a choice made by some developers and publishers, not users. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poulwrist Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Actually you can deliver non-steam requiring content through steam, if you so choose. And I would guess the same is true for Desura. In that case they are really just game managers that help you keep your game up to date and healthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamkyon Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I decided to pre-order Xenonauts today, not knowing that Desura operates exactly like Steam, that you have to run their client in order to play the game. Umm, no. As far as I know, the info I gave in this post still stands. And as Gorlom mentioned, pre-orderers have the option to download the latest build directly from the Desura website without installing the client software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorlom Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 doesn't make a lot of sense. I've already referenced several different companies who have committed to using no DRM whatsoever. DRM isn't native to software applications. Using it is a choice made by some developers and publishers, not users. I meant completly from all aplications and software. DRMs is an (unsuccessful) countermeasure to piracy. If there is no piracy there will never be any need for the DRMs. While a few has taken the step to to release their content without DRM, others will stick to it as long as there is piracy. Guess it boils down to your view on the moral of others. And if you focus on the cheaters or the supporters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauddlike Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 A lot of smaller companies use steam or desura because it is easier and more time efficient than hosting their own download sites and pushing out updates themselves. It is also pretty good advertising if their game can be seen alongside others that are potentially more well known. Desura takes up about 1g of my 2t hard drive so cluttering up my pc isn't really an issue for me. Once you download the Xenonauts client you only need to launch desura to check for updates if you don't want to use it. Open the installation folder and just use the xenonauts exe to play the build. I am with you on the annoyance factor of single player games that force you to keep an online connection or will not allow you to play. That is a pet hate of mine and I just don't buy that type of game. I have less of an issue with games that use an online launcher like steam because I generally don't have an issue connection online and most of my save files are stored online. It only becomes an issue when my connection is down for some reason and I can't play games that technically don't actually need an internet connection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screeg Posted March 16, 2012 Author Share Posted March 16, 2012 And as Gorlom mentioned, pre-orderers have the option to download the latest build directly from the Desura website without installing the client software. Thanks very much. I will use this option, no more complaints! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sectoid Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 imagine Xenonauts will deploy DRM like Diablo3, in which you have to connecting to DRM servers to get randomize maps and aliens get generated... it simply increase the burden (monthly broadband subscription fee + hardware + electricity bill)of supporting genuine games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pack.wolf Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 I like Desura. Especially since I found out that it can be used to install mods for games I don't even own on Desura. Just yesterday I installed Planetfall for Civ4 (which I bought via Steam) with it. So at least for me the pros (no worrying about physical media, automatic updates, mods for Desura, community features for Steam, ...) outweigh the cons (can't sell the games I bought when I no longer play them, issues when I'm somewhere without internet access). Guess it really depends on personal taste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauddlike Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Yeah I have found a few nice games on Desura that I otherwise would not even know about. Diablo 3 is a no go for me, mainly because of the connection requirements of a game I only ever see myself playing offline. Well occasionally online with a couple of friends but in that situation an internet connection is already required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TacticsOgre Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 I'm really interested in this game, but I won't buy this, or anything else, from Steam. I'm not going to debate the merits of Steam, or Desura, I simply choose not to support them. Anyway, will it be possible to purchase the game from GOG.com? I purchased the yet to be released Legend of Grimrock from GoG, and would be happy to purchase Xenonauts from them as well, or even buy the game direct from the developers if I don't need Steam or Desura to play once it is released. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamkyon Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 (edited) I purchased the yet to be released Legend of Grimrock from GoG, and would be happy to purchase Xenonauts from them as well, or even buy the game direct from the developers if I don't need Steam or Desura to play once it is released. As it stands, you don't need to have Desura installed in order to download or play the alpha, and I don't see why that would change. Edited April 11, 2012 by iamkyon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauddlike Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Chris has said that the way the final release will be handled is still up in the air. Once the game is more complete he will be able to talk to distributors and come up with some options. Until that happens no one will really be able to know the methods you will be able to use to purchase or download the final game. If you are one of the people who feels that strongly about using one of the distribution methods you mentioned then you are better off waiting until closer to release to ensure that you are able to actually receive your purchase without compromising yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screeg Posted April 12, 2012 Author Share Posted April 12, 2012 I was able to get my current copy without installing Desura (so hooray for that), but I also pre-ordered Legend of Grimrock. What do you think they sent me for my $12.00? A Steam key and a bit torrent link. I torrented the game and had it on my desktop in 15 minutes. That is the way to treat people who pay for your games: instant access, no DRM. The idea that a developer has any control whatsoever over piracy is a complete fallacy. They have a carrot, in the form of content, community and making a fantastic game, but they have no stick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TacticsOgre Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Chris has said that the way the final release will be handled is still up in the air.Once the game is more complete he will be able to talk to distributors and come up with some options. Until that happens no one will really be able to know the methods you will be able to use to purchase or download the final game. If you are one of the people who feels that strongly about using one of the distribution methods you mentioned then you are better off waiting until closer to release to ensure that you are able to actually receive your purchase without compromising yourself. Ok, thank you, I will. Looking forward to playing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruskyandrei Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Here's a sort of different angle to the OP question: If I really enjoy using Steam, will I be able to get a Steam version of the game once it comes out ? (assuming I pre-ordered and got the desura version ofc) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauddlike Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 The same answer applies really. Chris will speak to Steam and other distributors when the game is closer to completion and hopefully arrange several different options for people to use when purchasing the game. The pre orders will get their choice on how they want to receive their game from the methods available at release. As I said previously the final options are still up in the air so if you feel strongly either way about a specific distribution method then you may be better off waiting to be sure you aren't stuck with one you hate or that you are unable to use your only preferred option. It may be that the only distributor that is interested is steam, or that they insist on exclusivity in return for a good deal. It could also end up with steam not wanting to take on Xenonauts and a bit torrent distribution being the only way. If you are happy to use whatever method Goldhawk end up managing to negotiate then an early pre order is a good way to support the game and the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Fox Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Release platforms like Steam and Desure are convenient for developers without a dedicated publisher, since it simpliefies a lot when it comes to marketing, selling and distributing the game. DRM aside, that's why they are good services. Steam and Desura also helps us customers get access to games easily, browse and discover new games that we can conveniently download home to our computers. That said, having games being Steam-tied is a bit of an annoyance. Many games can be run directly from their executable without involving Steam, but some just can't. Also, DRM is futile. There is not a single game that has not been cracked yet. Not a single one. Assassin's Creed 2 was a perfect example of an "unbreakable" DRM that had pirates play the game lag and interruption free, while paying customers got stuck with disconnects, lost progression and long downtimes. Even MMOs are not free of cracked DRMs. There's oodles of "private" servers out there where you can play your favourite MMO on without bothering to pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauddlike Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Best form of DRM is still to ask questions from the paper manual Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Fox Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) Best form of DRM is still to ask questions from the paper manual Except that these days we have Internet. It's not that hard to upload a scanned PDF Speaking of which, remember the "Spinners"? Edited April 13, 2012 by Moonshine Fox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauddlike Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Didn't say it was impossible to bypass, it is just my favourite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Fox Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I also liked the Leisure Suit Larry games "age check". It'd ask you a couple of questions only a "grown up" would know. Hilarious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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