[v1.5/X:CE] Dynamic UFO Spawns (v1.0)

[dpelectric]

With five battleship terror missions under my belt now, I think I can confirm that praetors on terror missions will not use mind control. They employ dread continually, but never once on any of those five missions has a praetor tried to MC any of my troops. And I've closed to within a few spaces of them on numerous occasions.

Conversely, and in stark contrast, I just finished an assault against a landed battleship featuring two praetors. Once I got inside the ship, from the first floor to the fourth, they were nailing me with MC practically nonstop. Barely had a turn without losing control of at least one of my soldiers (thank God for backpacks and fusion grenades!).

As it stands right now, with the praetors practically immobile, standing casually out in the open, and not utilizing their greatest weapon, you might want to consider removing them from terror missions unless your idea for a work-around can be instituted.

[dpelectric]

I just noticed that alien base tags on the geoscape change according to their size, graduating from an outpost to a base to a fortress. Cool! Now players can easily see what they're heading into.

[kabill]

With five battleship terror missions under my belt now, I think I can confirm that praetors on terror missions will not use mind control. They employ dread continually, but never once on any of those five missions has a praetor tried to MC any of my troops. And I've closed to within a few spaces of them on numerous occasions.

Conversely, and in stark contrast, I just finished an assault against a landed battleship featuring two praetors. Once I got inside the ship, from the first floor to the fourth, they were nailing me with MC practically nonstop. Barely had a turn without losing control of at least one of my soldiers (thank God for backpacks and fusion grenades!).

As it stands right now, with the praetors practically immobile, standing casually out in the open, and not utilizing their greatest weapon, you might want to consider removing them from terror missions unless your idea for a work-around can be instituted.

Heh, thanks for this. Can't think why being on a terror mission would make a difference. Maybe they're programmed only to use MC within command/objective areas (which don't exist on terror maps)? Very strange. Will definitely revise in any case.

Also, re: two Praetors - that's a bug (there should never be more than one on a mission). It's either going to be because I've set something up wrong or it's going to be related to the same issue that produces additional reapers on other missions. Will have a look anyway.

I just noticed that alien base tags on the geoscape change according to their size, graduating from an outpost to a base to a fortress. Cool! Now players can easily see what they're heading into.

I asked Solver to do that a while back due to the growth-over-time mechanic. It was rubbish otherwise since you can't plan for the level of resistance you're likely to face.

[dpelectric]

Maybe they're programmed only to use MC within command/objective areas (which don't exist on terror maps)?

If so, then there might be a way to assign the same command/objective areas to terror maps. Perhaps Solver/Ilunak/GH could shed some light on this?

[dpelectric]

Oh, and BTW, I take back what I said before about the alien crews being perhaps not dynamic enough. For whatever reason (RNG?) the mid-game vessels I was assaulting had crew compositions that were close to vanilla. But now, on the big missions- especially terror maps- it's a friggin' zoo. I routinely see 5 different species (such as wraiths, caesans, praetors, drones and harridans) in varying numbers on any given GC. Having harridans snipe you while sebs fire cannons and reapers charge you makes for quite the lively and entertaining experience

My only small and trifling observation is that, as Max has noted before, drones still seem to be underrepresented in the mix. In the maybe 15 big missions I've done so far, I had only one with drones (although in that single instance, there were four of them). If you have a moment between the 6000 other projects you're juggling, perhaps you might consider bumping their chances up

[kabill]

Looks like my work-around for the Praetor issue won't work very well, for a few reasons:

- Aesthetically, they make noises like Caesans rather than Praetors.

- AI wise, they seem to be really stupid (not as stupid as they are by default, but still pretty stupid. They mostly ditz about and with 4 Praetors on the same map for testing purposes I got mind control thrown at me about twice in ~10 turns).

- The Dread power appears to be linked specifically to the Praetor race type, therefore it doesn't work when making a Caesan duplicate.

Having done a quick test with the default Praetors as well, I suspect that it's beyond my ability to change. It's almost like the game is entirely skipping over their turns like they don't exist and there's nothing in aiprops which is going to change that.

I suspect, then, it will be necessary to remove Praetors from Terror missions entirely. Which is a shame, but there's nothing I can do about it.

Re: Drones - I might be able to add them to a few missions, maybe. I will have a look.

[dpelectric]

It is a shame, yes, because if praetors functioned correctly they could make terror missions far more daunting. When you have high-level enemies regularly charging you, and able to target you from multiple directions, it's not so simple to just pack/unpack your weapons. In the confines of a battleship or base, where you can exploit doors, block teleports, and are generally able to focus your firepower in one direction, combat is relatively straightforward. Terror sites are more open, threats are more mobile, and if you had to sacrifice reaction fire due to fear of MC things would be considerably more challenging. I wish there was a solution.

[kabill]

Something I didn't try is reducing the psionics costs. That might help with the ditzing and low MC usage. I could also change the powers on the terror mission duplicate, which might help increase psionics usage as well. Although you'd end up with a Praetor different to that encountered during UFO and Base missions, it might be a fair compromise.

No way to solve the sound issue though.

[drages]

Kabill

Can't we create a praetor by ourself. Just make one and put it an action.. name it lower rank but power full. . No need to have their special abilities..

It should not be hard..

[kabill]

Yes, you can create additional ranks for the Praetor race like all the others, so far as I know.

[drages]

I talked about your problem about adding them to terror missions..

[kabill]

Ah, sorry, wasn't sure if that's what you meant. I suspect it won't work as the issue seems to be related to the Praetor race AI (which will be constant regardless of rank).

Also, did I ever do an update removing the Praetor from terror missions? I don't think I did, did I?

[drages]

Ah, sorry, wasn't sure if that's what you meant. I suspect it won't work as the issue seems to be related to the Praetor race AI (which will be constant regardless of rank).

Also, did I ever do an update removing the Praetor from terror missions? I don't think I did, did I?

I mean make a praetor and put it under ceasan.. ceasans can MD anyway.. so u will have a powerfull ceasan looks like praetor..

[kabill]

I've tried this previously (see the post at the top of this page) - it's still imperfect as the sound isn't right for them even if the issue of psionic usage is put aside.

[drages]

Hmm.... so.. are they more stupid then their standard? I mean as vanilla they just sit and fire if they got something in range.

As the lore, they are command units. They don't run or cover or hide.. so if they shoot it's enough I think.

At my mod I am planning to give them very high survival with a tough shield. I see them as a stable boss..

[kabill]

IIRC, the problem is that they don't shoot very much. In the test I did they tended to dither around without doing much else. But it does depend on the AI type (the one I was watching in particular during that test was probably on Aggressive; the others might have been more sensible but I was mostly paying attention to their psionics usage).

[Oldsmobile]

Thanks for this mod.

Is it 'normal' for the mod to generate four terror missions in one wave of UFOs? That just happened to me . . . I surrendered and re-loaded the game.

[kabill]

The mod takes all the locks off of terror missions so that it's possible to get multiple terror missions in a single wave. Getting four in one go should be exceptionally rare, however.

[Skitso]

Hmm, I've never actually played with this mod and now I'm finally planning to. Few questions first though:

-There was some talk about praetor issues in terror missions. Are those fixed/removed?

-Someone commented above that the crews mostly lack drones, which is bit of a letdown for me. Has anything been done to this? (I've accustomed to my own crew mod that has drones in almost all ufos, which is nice)

-I think I'd rather play without the growing bases. What changes need to be done to get vanilla base system?

-compared to vanilla game, how is the average difficulty?

Thanks!

Edited February 17, 2015 by Skitso

[kabill]

1) No, they're still there. But as it's only relevant for the very end of the game, you could start using it now and I'll get an update out within a few days to sort the problem (but I need a solution, see below).

2) Depends on what you mean by 'lack drones'. For me there's a good number of drones but your desired level of drone might be different to mine. I suspect overall, though, there's about the same prevalence of drones compared with vanilla on average but they're less evenly distributed (i.e. some mission types have a few and others none; Androns also tend to be accompanied by more drones while Sebillians not so much, IIRC).

3) If you go into the mod's gameconfig file, just delete all the variables listed under the commented-out ALIEN BASE LEVEL UP THRESHOLDS. Note that there are some other changes to alien bases which went alongside this system (more frequent and earlier base-building; a change to the effect that bases have on the game; a significant reduction in the chance of auto-detecting a base; and bigger crew lists). I think these other changes would work ok with a vanilla base-growth system but I don't know for certain.

4) Honestly, I haven't played without Dynamic UFOs since I made it so I don't really know any more. I'd say the tactical missions are slightly more difficult as, on average, there's slightly more aliens than in vanilla and they're a little less predictable because of crew variations. On the strategic side of things, I'd say that for an experienced player its about the same as you'll have a good sense of how the strategic game develops and what is/isn't within your capabilities at any given point. Although expect more frequent Terror/Base Attack missions (which I guess counts as increased difficulty).

EDIT: Oops, forgot this -

So, Praetors and terror missions don't work. Nor, I assume, will Praetors work on Base Attack missions either. But what to do?

The best solution would seem to be to replace the Praetor with another alien type (probably another Leader/Officer rank). This is easy enough with a Terror Mission as there's separate lists for the UFO en route and for the terror mission itself. It is a problem with Base Attack missions, however, since they draw from the same list regardless of whether the UFO is shot down or manages to get to your base. As such, to remove the Praetor from a Base Attack mission type would be to allow some (albeit only a small number) of Battleships to spawn without a Praetor. Which might be annoying when you're trying to capture one.

My question, then, is how much people think this would be a problem. Given that Base Attack and Terror Missions are fairly infrequent compared with others and also given the fact that you can and should have QC-Centres up and running by that point in the game (which tell you the crew loadout of the UFO) I think it could be tolerable. But I've also not played to that point in the game (still!) so am less well placed to have an opinion on that compared with others.

Edited February 17, 2015 by kabill

[Skitso]

Okay, thanks. I actually ended only using your AM_* files slightly modifying them for my tastes. Just curious, you've set alien base delays to be 25 days at the begining of the game and decreasing as the ticker goes up... what's your thinking there as it's completely opposite of what the vanilla game has?

[kabill]

Okay, thanks. I actually ended only using your AM_* files slightly modifying them for my tastes. Just curious, you've set alien base delays to be 25 days at the begining of the game and decreasing as the ticker goes up... what's your thinking there as it's completely opposite of what the vanilla game has?

The short answer is that it's a counter to the player's increasingly strong air power. Since the player's ability to intercept and destroy construction mission UFOs increases over time I wanted the rate of base construction to be high in the mid-late game as well so some have a chance of getting through. Also, lore-wise it makes more sense to me that alien base construction would become more rather than less intensive as the invasion progresses.

The longer answer is that it is a way of making the alien-base-growth-over-time mechanic work better and to make alien bases a bit more interesting in terms of risk/reward. The aliens begin building bases at the start of October using Landing Ships. That early on, it's unlikely the player will even detect the UFO and even if they can they probably won't be able to defeat it in the air or on the ground. Hence, there's pretty much guaranteed to be an alien base from early October onwards. Another base should spawn ~late October/early November which will be slightly above the player power curve but by less.

These early bases are important because it increases the chance of an alien base getting to medium/large size before the player stomps on them. As they will be ahead of the player power curve, they will always be a risk to attack (unlike in vanilla where alien bases are balanced to a difficulty in-line with expected player progression). This larger risk is tempered somewhat by a larger reward, since larger alien bases yield more resources. In this sense, then, it's equivalent to engaging a harder-than-usual UFO. However, as the game moves into November/December the new bases which are constructed will be better matched to the player's power level. So it should still be possible to get alien base tech as soon as you could in the vanilla game but you've been given the option of a few harder alien base missions if you want to try them.

Hopefully that makes sense.

[Skitso]

That makes all the sense in the world actually. I will need to think again about only using your ufo mission files.

[kabill]

That makes all the sense in the world actually. I will need to think again about only using your ufo mission files.

Hmm, didn't think about this 'til now but even if you're only using the AM_ files you will need to include/mod your own ufocontents files so that UFOs have crew lists for missions they wouldn't normally do in vanilla (otherwise you'll have empty UFOs!).

[kabill]

Ah, Skitso, you might also want to consider increasing the chance of Terror and Base Attack missions. I reduced the chance of these missions spawning since I'd removed/reduced the cooldowns on them; if you're not using the reduced cooldowns in gameconfig.xml then the end result will be even few terror and base attack missions than in vanilla (which I'm sure you will agree is a bad thing!).