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[v1.5/X:CE] Dynamic UFO Spawns (v1.0)


kabill

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The reapers attacked immediately. To reiterate, dropship lands, I move my guys out of it, taking cover behind nearby mesas. I see no hostiles. Everything nice and calm. Hit End Turn. Reapers come racing around the sides of those mesas, sebs come running out of the FOW. By the end of the first full turn 5 of my guys dead, the others facing certain death without abort.

Either I was extremely unlucky and those reapers were on the other side of those mesas, just out of LOS, or did you increase their TUs?

I'd like to make it clear that this is NOT a complaint. I've played the vanilla game to death, and after a break I came back to try again explicitly because of this mod and the challenge it seemed to offer. In no way do I consider "zerg" rushes to be a "bug". Far from it. Now the game holds forth the promise of being interesting and unpredictable again. A "bug" is something that shouldn't happen and/or you have no way to counter. There are numerous ways I can counter this mod; namely by learning from harsh experience (the way it should be) and not attempting corvettes again until I have Jackal and lasers, and then not moving my troops out of the dropship (expending most of their TUs) right off the bat.

Any mod that forces you to change your ho-hum-here-we-go-again strategy and punts you out of your comfort zone can only be a good thing. Don't change anything! Though you may want to make it clear that this mod is definitely not for first-time players

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Sorry, my point was relating to the number of reapers rather than what happened with them - according to the crew list you shouldn't have been facing more than two at most unless it was a Terror or Base Attack UFO. But given the timing, it shouldn't have been. Which means there's something wrong somehow with the crew list. I've been over it several times now and can't see anything, though.

As regards the reapers' attack - just bad luck. I've not changed the stats for aliens at all in the mod. But obviously it would be less bad if there were less reapers to attack you with! It's questionable how much you can actually do in such a circumstance - I guess moving less and saving TUs would give you chance for opportunity fire and require the reapers move further. But this isn't really the mod's fault in any case; reapers could rush you like that in the vanilla game too.

(If it's any consolation, I just wiped on my first Corvette mission of the game I've recently started. Although that was fighting Caesans with Hold the Line, which actually makes early game psionics meaningful, apparently. And I totally should have bugged out rather than stupidly fighting on.)

Also...

Edited by kabill
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And I totally should have bugged out rather than stupidly fighting on

Which is the thing that makes this mod so great. In vanilla, if you know the game's mechanics, you're almost always guaranteed victory. Yeah, you might have a few guys wounded, maybe one or two even dies, but the final outcome of any GC is never seriously in doubt. Now that comfort has been stripped away. Full squad wipes are a distinct possibility. Which deliciously amps up the tension and makes your victories so much more rewarding. I say two big thumbs up, only, again, definitely not for newer players

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Otherwise:

- Doesn't work with any other mod that modifies gameconfig.xml

- Compatibility patch for Dynamic UFOs + FitH/ECS: [ATTACH]4434[/ATTACH] (install separately after Dynamic UFOs and FitH/ECS)

The mentioned Attachment isn't available any more - so is this now compatible to FitH, or what do I have to do to use both mods?

Btw: awesome mods, making an awesome game even more ... awesome =)

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Hmm, you're right. Apparently I deleted it.

If you use the XCE version, it will work with FitH fine. The compatibility thing was only for non-XCE users. But under the assumption that some people don't want to use XCE for some reason, I'll re-upload the other files when I get home later.

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Right now assaulting a landing ship a good bit earlier than I ever have before. Caesans, but with drones and wraiths! Between the psionic attacks, the drones suppressing, and the wraiths teleporting everywhere it's a heck of a fight, esp since I'm still in a Charlie with only half my guys upgraded to lasers & Jackal. This mod is da bomb! :cool:

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BTW, assaulting a corvette right now that has featured 4 reapers outside (haven't gotten inside yet). With lasers and inching forward very carefully (saving almost all TUs) they and the sebs have tasted a little payback. But since you say there shouldn't be more than two reapers...well...

Edit: Oh, and this is a desert map, as far as I can tell unpopulated. I've seen no civilians, heard no screams or sounds of fighting in the distance, and all four reapers rushed me in the first two turns. There is little chance any of them came from infected civvies

Edit 2: Just finished mission and there were no civilians on the map

Edited by dpelectric
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If you're in November it could be a Terror or Base Attack mission which can have up to four. Although one of them should have defensive AI and therefore stay inside the UFO, so that remains an oddity. Wish I could work out what's going on. Might have to have another look at some point.

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This is a really fun mod but I'm getting wrecked. I'm a super noob, playing the latest CE edition. I have not beat xenonauts once, even in vanilla so that's probably part of my problem. The main issue seems to be that very early on I'm encountering the alien snipers before I can get Jackal armor. They're picking off my team before I can get close to a UFO!

I'm going to keep powering through it because I love the variety but just curious if there is a place I can read some tips for this mod for a new player?

Awesome mod by the way, love the variety!

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The crew of any given UFO shouldn't be much harder than they are in vanilla (and if they are, it will be because of slightly increased numbers as there's some randomisation to the number of aliens on each mission). With that in mind, the key thing is to know your limits. The mod gives you access to harder missions earlier, but you don't have to do them if you're not feeling ready for them.

(There's a single exception: Scouts on supply missions have a stronger crew than is typical for a Scout and can therefore be a bit of a surprise.)

I might put together some guidance at some point but it's more likely to be an outline of the changes rather than strategic guidance per se (as I'm not sure I have any to give!)

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Ahh, okay. Different missions. Gotcha. Is there any way to tell what type of mission a certain UFO is pursuing? By either altitude or speed or something? I've been spoiled by Long War I guess. Their altitude would give a hint at what you could expect the ship to be doing.

A general outline of the changes would be pretty sweet. And maybe I ran into a heavily crewed scout. It was really intense right up till I was getting sniped! Reapers scared the crap out of me that early. One thing I like about your mod is I get to see aliens I wouldn't normally get to see. I'm pretty good at knocking down terror mission ships.

Thanks for the info! I'll figure it out by wading waist deep through rookie blood!

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@TheLoneTerran

Xenopedia gives some clues while the game goes on, some examples:

- abductions, strange storms, forest fires along the course and ufo lands sometimes - research mission

- airliners, warplanes attacked - air attacking fighter ufos

- ground objects like oil rigs, ships, highways get strafed - ground attack (and won't land)

- ufo makes several landings in a row - base construction

- ufos on a scout mission do not land and I guess produce neutral messages like "Ufo sighted"

etc

Edited by podbelski
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@TheLoneTerran

Xenopedia gives some clues while the game goes on, some examples:

- abductions, strange storms, forest fires along the course and ufo lands sometimes - research mission

- airliners, warplanes attacked - air attacking fighter ufos

- ground objects like oil rigs, ships, highways get strafed - ground attack (and won't land)

- ufo makes several landings in a row - base construction

- ufos on a scout mission do not land and I guess produce neutral messages like "Ufo sighted"

etc

These are generally good tips but it's worth noting that Scouts can land in Dynamic UFOs too (I'm still not sure why they weren't able to in vanilla, to be honest).

Other than this, the only way to tell what mission something is on is using the Quantum Cryptography Centre building (which unlocks off of stuff looted from an alien base). But obviously that doesn't help at the beginning of the game.

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Mid-January now, and I'd like to say that this mod is working just as you intended. Early introduction of medium ships really amped up the risk/reward calculation. And with scouts still around, I now have a chance to train up my B team with a somewhat lesser risk of them getting slaughtered.

So the dynamic UFOs, IMHO, are working perfectly. I do wonder, though, if it's possible to make the crews even more diversified. Could it be arranged so that ships might feature reapers, drones, wraiths, etc as the primary race? That could add another degree of variety and suspense to the mix

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Mid-January now, and I'd like to say that this mod is working just as you intended. Early introduction of medium ships really amped up the risk/reward calculation. And with scouts still around, I now have a chance to train up my B team with a somewhat lesser risk of them getting slaughtered.

So the dynamic UFOs, IMHO, are working perfectly. I do wonder, though, if it's possible to make the crews even more diversified. Could it be arranged so that ships might feature reapers, drones, wraiths, etc as the primary race? That could add another degree of variety and suspense to the mix

Glad to hear it's working. You've actually gotten further than I've ever had the time to test!

In terms of expanding crews, I've previously avoided this for two reasons. Firstly, it was technically difficult. Using only the three available race types and with the previous bug with the quantum cryptography centre not displaying different alien races properly, it wasn't really feasible. Secondly, I wanted to maintain a vanilla feel as much as possible.

The first issue is no longer a problem, I think, as Solver has unshackled the alien race types and it should be possible to add in further race variants for UFO spawns. The second one I'm undecided about. As Dynamic UFOs has developed, it's crept increasingly away from vanilla and, in fact, I think the mod's name is something of a misnomer at this point. Part of me is reluctant to go further, but the other part thinks there's enough distance now that it doesn't matter. Perhaps it might work as an optional expansion or alternative version?

Actually, on that note, one thing I've not got around to testing but have previously implemented in my own games is earlier Fury access (a la the FTD mod). Given that you get more powerful UFOs earlier I think it fits into the mod quite nicely and am wondering whether it would be worth rolling out generally. Any thoughts on this?

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Glad to hear it's working. You've actually gotten further than I've ever had the time to test!

Well, it's nice to know that since I have no modding skills, I can still be of some limited value as a playtester lol

Perhaps it might work as an optional expansion or alternative version?

Maybe a "Dynamic Crews" mod? That way people could couple it with this mod, or not, as desired? If you could pull it off, I think it could really add something to the game, and I believe you'd get a very positive response in general, but of course I have no right to project my wishes upon your time and effort

Any thoughts on this?

Honestly, I'm still disappointed that the FTD mod concept died. It seemed, to me, to be the perfect way to counter the late-game dropoff in mission variety and challenge level, particularly since modders could exploit mostly pre-exising assets. Having said that, I'm not sure about introducing Furies without also bringing in something like the previously envisioned dreadnaught. Even within the framework of Dynamic UFOs, I would think that the X-120 could be pretty OP, and actually weaken the late game even further. Unless you significantly increased a battleship's HP, or some other countervailing balance...

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Maybe a "Dynamic Crews" mod? That way people could couple it with this mod, or not, as desired? If you could pull it off, I think it could really add something to the game, and I believe you'd get a very positive response in general, but of course I have no right to project my wishes upon your time and effort

Hmm, yeah, it would actually in principle work as a standalone mod that could be run even without Dynamic UFOs.

(Relatedly, if anyone reading this wanted to put together some ideas for crew listings it would take a lot of the work out of putting something like this together).

Honestly, I'm still disappointed that the FTD mod concept died. It seemed, to me, to be the perfect way to counter the late-game dropoff in mission variety and challenge level, particularly since modders could exploit mostly pre-exising assets. Having said that, I'm not sure about introducing Furies without also bringing in something like the previously envisioned dreadnaught. Even within the framework of Dynamic UFOs, I would think that the X-120 could be pretty OP, and actually weaken the late game even further. Unless you significantly increased a battleship's HP, or some other countervailing balance...

This is why I was asking: I've not got a sense for how tough the late-game UFOs are relative to the player's strength. I've also primarily tested this mod in conjunction with my air combat mod which, by making the air game harder, makes auto-win aircraft more appealing anyway. Shall maybe avoid this, then, at least as part of Dynamic UFOs.

(For the record, I like the principle of FTD too. But I've not used it in practice because I prefer to use Dynamic UFOs and it would require an entirely new mod which integrated the two as they don't work together properly otherwise.)

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