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  1. Friendly fire suppression effects should be far less than enemy. That's it. I think you should limit the suppression radius of friendly fire to the target tile OR about 1/2 the normal suppression radius. Friendlies expect and recognize where friendly fire is coming from and who it's directed at. Only if they fear they are in "beaten zone" are they going to get scared. Also, do aliens get suppressed by their own friendly fire? I don't recall seeing this.
  2. Its more of a though than a suggestion It would have a nice effect to the gameplay if a suppressed unit gets easier to hit by reaction shots. I think this could shackle the target more on its position. This would encourage more flanking. greater risk of being shot when running away, while seeing someone coming near with a grenade is a nice thrill 8). The main problems would be that flash grenades would be too effective and too many targets are effected. (ok if it would hit the xcom but the aliens need more love) And i dont know if the ai is really able to use it effectively (atleast they often save a nice ammount of spare tp)
  3. The one thing I've noticed about suppression values in-game is that (at least as far as I can tell) the shotgun has the worst of all ballistic weapons. I suppose this makes sense at long range where the blast has dispersed somewhat, but at close range, even when the shot misses (which is relatively common for the 20-TU option), the mere sound and power of a shotgun blast up-close should be more suppressive than a three-round burst from a rifle. Two consecutive near-misses from a shotgun at a range of four tiles just failed to suppress a Caesan non-combatant in the game I'm playing now, which is the reason I came over and posted. This just seems insane. Just a suggestion- perhaps shotguns should receive added suppression value below a predefined range, say seven tiles or so?
  4. I suppressed my own troops when breaching a scout ufo, is this supposed to happen? 4 guys in position to breach, had 2 LMG's about 13 squares in position directily opposite ufo door, took a few turns to shoot and destroy ufo door, but i suppressed my own guys multiple times doing it.
  5. I started another game of Xenonauts and the first ground mission was a landed UFO (local forces say they downed it, but it's never damaged). It was Sebellians and I managed to get to the UFO with four guys standing, open the doors and find three more Sebellians in there (why there are nine of these giant lizards crammed into these things is beyond me). I toss a Flash Grenade to suppress them and... nothing, two of them get reaction fire and kill one of my guys. So I chuck another flash grenade with a different guy, they are again not suppressed, and they proceed to reaction fire again, killing the remainder of my crew.
  6. I was thinking about tinkering with a weapon balance mod. It probably will hinge on suppression so I wanted to start taking a look at that. And Stinky got me started with some of the suppression info, however is there any way to add an accuracy penalty to suppression? I was told Suppression is tied to bravery, but how does that reduce Alien TUs so they cant fire?
  7. One of the fundamental problems with the combat in X-Com and in Xenonauts is with the shooting - all it does is wound or kill units. This may sound trite, but it is an issue in that most weapons can fire in both single shot mode or burst fire mode. In the current incarnation, assuming that you have enough APs to take a burst shot, you should always do that. It provides the highest average damage per AP spent. This doesn't really give you much in the way of tactical options. It's just simple maths as to what fire mode gives the best bang for your APs. It was suggested a month or two ago that we look at the suppression system from JA1.13 for inspiration. Naturally I've been far too busy to actually do that, but the idea of suppression has grown on me enormously over the last few weeks as it provides an obvious solution to the problem above. With suppression implemented, we can have burst fire causing lots of suppression but not actually doing that much damage, while single aimed shots are much more effective at causing damage but don't cause anywhere near as much suppression. It also means we can change the battlefield roles of some weapons a bit - for example, machineguns and the Ferret .50cal. In both cases it's been difficult to balance these to be effective but not overpowered. Giving them very high suppression but perhaps no more actual damage than the sniper rifles would make them useful support weapons but not overpowered in effectiveness. Suppression would be something that is built up with each shot the affects the unit, draining the unit's APs first from his reserves (used for reaction fire) and then from the next turn. With enough units shooting at the same target, it would be entirely possible to pin them in place. Initially I was going to suggest we tied this into morale, but on reflection I don't think that's a good idea. I don't think a soldier who is pinned in position by enemy fire is directly more frightened than one that is not, rather they are keeping their heads down to avoid getting shot. Perhaps we can add a small morale penalty for getting suppressed or pinned, but I don't think the suppression score should use the morale value. Rather, I think each unit should have a Suppression score that is based on his Bravery stat, giving it a common root with Morale but a shared value. This will start at the soldier's Bravery value, which is anything from 50 upwards (as the lowest starting value for any soldier attribute is 50). Each weapon fire mode will have a "suppression damage" value, and when a soldier fires a weapon at a target (irrespective of whether they hit it) the suppression damage will be applied to the target's Suppression score. This is affected by armour as usual, so if the unit has powerful armour it will not be suppressed by firing weak weapons at it. Once Suppression reaches 0, any extra supression damage recieved is first deducted from the unit's AP reserves for the current turn (down to 0) and then from the AP in the following terms (again down to 0). Further suppression is wasted. Maybe we'll have a symbol appearing above the head of the unit to show it has been suppressed? The Suppression score should regenerate a certain amount each turn, perhaps something like 20. That means three turns without being fired at would return any unit to their full Suppression "shield". Anyone got any thoughts, suggestions or improvements?
  8. Hi guys, just a suggestion - I know the bravery mechanic isn't fleshed out yet but it's a fairly static stat at the moment and only affected by psionic attacks and medals. It'd be a really nice touch in my opinion if being under heavy fire makes a soldier more brave over time, say every time they get suppressed they gain a progression point in bravery. After 20 missions most soldiers would have a 1000 yard stare, leaning against a wall chewing a cigar while it rains plasma and rookies are hugging the dirt like starfish. Shellshock? Another mechanic idea: If they get suppressed too often, however, you could add a Shell-shock injury type, where their Bravery is halved for a duration of up to 30 days depending on how often they've been shot at. this condition could also be applied if more than 50% of the team get wiped etc. I dunno if that's too realistic but it would be a nice optional for those of us who like punishing game play. I'd tick that box.
  9. I have a small problem with my grenades, specifically the flash-bang (FB). I am assuming these are holes in my understanding and not bugs. So I am testing away with: suppressionValue="100" suppressionRadius="5" But what I am seeing is that the radius does not appear to be in squares. When used on a Sebillian non-com (is the second mission of a new game), with two FBs dropped 1 square away from the target, it reacts to both but is not suppressed. So a third lands two squares away, and the alien ignores it (or at least did not react with the animation of being hit, or the standard hiss), and is still not suppressed. So the first question concerns the radius, and to how it is actually handled. The second question is if the weapons_gc.xml values are stored in the save game, or are they read when the game is launched? If it is the latter then they can be modified during a tactical mission, and a restart will adopt the changes. Otherwise the mission must be re-launched to test alterations. My last question concerns Suppression and Bravery. My understanding from the forum is that Bravery is the value that gets reduced when Suppression fire comes in. With a Bravery score of 40 and the FBs having the standard 100 Suppression effect and range of 5, how can two FBs landing 1 square away not have suppressed the Sebillian? It has a Resilience of 48 in case that it taken into account. The only special thing to note is that I have added 5 points to all types of armour. Even should the grenade effects have a cubic drop-off, I do not see it being the explanation unless armour rating is categorical instead of linear. Cheers!
  10. We're about to implement the suppression mechanics for the ground combat. The proposed suppression model is listed below for comments. There is likely to be changes to burst fire mechanics in the future so burst fire is less damaging in phyiscal terms, but that's not part of this discussion at the moment. Each unit (not vehicles) has a ­Suppression score. This is based on their Bravery stat. At the start of each battle their Suppression score starts at their Bravery stat and is capped at this level. They regenerate 25% of their maximum Suppression score at the start of each turn (rounded up), before any suppression checks are made. This 25% should be customisable value in config.xml. Therefore a unit with a 60 Bravery stat will start a battle with a 60 Suppression score and will regenerate 15 points per turn up to a maximum of score of 60. Properties: Each weapon should have a Suppression Value and Suppression Radius for their fire modes, which need to be set separately for Single Shot and Burst Fire. Suppression Value controls the amount of suppression a weapon causes. Suppression Radius controls the distance from the initial target that suppression will be caused to other units. When a weapon is fired at a target, it causes suppression damage to their suppression score. This damage is caused irrespective of whether the bullets fired actually hit their targets. The suppression damage is applied to the target unit, and all other units within the suppression radius of the target. The suppression damage done is the Suppression Value of the shot, less the appropriate unit armour value. If a unit is in the outer half of the suppression radius, rounded up (eg. 3 tiles away with a suppression radius of 5) then the suppression damage is reduced by half, after the armour check is taken into account. Therefore a machinegun with 80 Suppression Value and 5 Suppression Range firing at a Caesan with 60 Suppression score and 20 armour will reduce him to 0 Suppression score. A second Caesan standing 2 tiles away would also be reduced to 0 Suppression score. A third Caesan standing 4 tiles away would be reduced to 30 Suppression. Effects: Once a unit hits 0 Suppression score, it immediately loses any Aps reserved for reaction fire. In the following turn, it will have its Aps reduced to 50% of the normal value. If capable, the unit will immediately crouch (this does not cost Aps). A “suppressed” icon will appear above the unit’s head.
  11. when my men go into craft and been there for a turn they still have not got enouth turns left to shoot has anyone got the same
  12. From my experiments in the field, suppression for grenades is worked out in exactly the same manner as it is for guns, which is a problem. It makes weapons like flashbangs pointless because once a grenade is either thrown or scatters outside it's operational range of 10 squares the amount of suppression a flashbang then does drops off very quickly. It is far better to use a weapon like the machinegun which admittedly costs 12 more TUs to use but has a much longer range and is consequently more reliable when causing suppression Could suppression for grenades and rockets be worked out from point-of-impact rather originating point please? And if the same modifier for range also applies for other types of damage other than suppression, could those also be applied for point-of-impact rather than originating point as well?
  13. When you fire a "burst" is the suppression value in weapons_gc.xml for the whole burst or is it applied per round fired? I'm thinking its for the whole burst i.e. one chance to suppress.
  14. I've been using flashbangs for a while now, and I've got to say - well, not too impressed. On paper they look the bomb. 80 suppression should lock any low-grade alien down, no worries. But I can fling 2 or 3 at caesian and sebiliian guards and noncoms and even though I'm sure they are in blast radius, they make the "alien hit" noise, but aren't suppressed. Does a grenade's damage and suppression effect noticeably reduce the further away it is from the point of impact?
  15. OK, so for the purposes of this thread, we won't be discussing changing the suppression to a "by bullet" system as I want to give this one a run first (and it gives us more leeway to tweak burst fire and how that works). How do people like suppression at the moment? Is it useful? The other thread suggests some people find it too easy to suppress units - is this generally the case? Also, peculiar behaviour - firing at close range can lead to you suppressing your own troops, including those behind the shooter. I can imagine that's a bit weird - are there other odd behaviours I should know about?
  16. with the suppression threads getting big and bogged down, i figured a way to just get the basic pulse of the community towards the idea would be helpful. suppression ideas are pretty much four ideas in some form of combination: slowly prevent movement slowly keep the enemy from effectively shooting deal damage to enemy slowly prevent movement, keep the enemy from effectively shooting deal damage to enemy, slowly prevent movement deal damage to enemy, slowly keep the enemy from effectively shooting deal damage to enemy, slowly prevent movement, keep the enemy from effectively shooting slowly prevent movement, prevent damage to enemy slowly keep the enemy from effectively shooting, prevent damage to enemy slowly prevent movement, keep the enemy from effectively shooting, prevent damage to enemy if i have missed some idea in this combination please tell me. 2. includes sapping APs used solely for firing, as well as reducing/eliminating reaction shots, or even reducing accuracy. 3. would be improved chances at reaction fire, as that leads to damage to the enemy. 4. would be morale damage, as that would eventually result in panic, which would cause a full loss of APs, and thus result in no movement and no shooting. 8-10. includes increasing the effects of cover. missed vision reduction and affecting the AI.
  17. Some games (like JA2 v 1.13) feature suppressive fire that saps the target(s) time units for it's next turn. That is one way but it really only works for humans. Oh, and it's very straightforward so easy to implement. The downside is that this takes away the decision that suppressive fire actually presents to the player (and to aliens). A completely fearless alien might not honour the suppression and want to advance regardless. A soldier might advance and storm the pill box because there is no other way out of a bad situation. That is what you cannot simulate with the basic movement-sapping approach. The decision is made by the engine, not by the player. That is anathema for a strategy game. A reverse way to handle suppression: (easy to visualise, too) The act of laying down suppressive fire builds up a virtual damage bar on the target(s). Lots of bullets = lots of suppression, high damage attacks / explosives = lots of suppression. Suppression is generated by any bullet or AOE that comes close enough. The closer, the more suppression. Damage type still takes effect. If you are wearing the Firestarter Armour (100% fire resistance) and something attacks you with a flamer, you smile and walk right through it. No suppression is generated. Plasma bolts, however, have right of way. Duck! If it's your turn and your soldier is suppressed: Any TU expenditure while you are not "in cover" against all visible enemies causes damage to you. Expending TU on weapon fire causes a smaller amount of damage than movement but still relative to the amount of TU spent. Leaning out of cover for a long time, lining up an aimed shot : more damage. Every turn (or by certain abilities), the suppression is reduced by some amount, probably with a bonus for TU not spent. Moving from one bit of cover to the next while not exposing yourself to an attacker also reduces suppression. You are "sneaking away while keeping your head down". It reduces suppression as if you were hit, transferring the virtual damage bar into damage - but the damage doesn't materialise while you stay in cover. This system bridges the gap between suppressive fire happening in one turn and the target's decision (keep head down or charge out of cover) in the next turn. With this system, an actor can decide if the suppressive fire is too heavy or so sporadic that it is more useful to go full auto on the enemy and turn the tables. Or the actor is a crazed muton who doesn't give a damn. You can't do a decent AI if the actors can not make decisions because they are forced onto them. Same goes for the player.
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