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[XCE 0.31 + XNT 6.0] Out of the Sun: geoscape overhaul for XNT


podbelski

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Actually you can.Current XNT v6 script is not compatible with new LoS system,so you will have to change it a bit (in general just play with values that affect LoS) .Also you can do all kind of stuff without access to source code and you would be able to do it even more if Illunak finishes his work on AI.

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maybe its about using passive aliens rather then aggressive?

I don't think so but... who knows? Maybe I should run a test making all the aliens aggressive... but I expect either it will be mostly the same thing or all of them will be spawned near the dropship

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Making them aggressive won't make the cut.As I said problem is with how AI script from XNT V 6 is tweaked.Its tweakead in mind of old LoS algorithm and it worked well then, now what you get is alliens runnimg,camping gettimg stuck in infinite back/forth running loop and costant tries to sneak behind soldier back through whole squad (this is doable because of persistent LOS but AI is trying too hard to use this exploit making game limear and not interesting.

.I started with making changes in script to improve AI behaviour but I have never finished and TD single handedly just before release did bunch of tweaking that didn't make sense (including. all changes I made) and were not tested , in your place I would disregard xnt script all together and start from scratch.

Or wait for CE 0.33.Actually both of u could help llunak with testing his changes and along way get familiar with how AI will function,not to say that you will have functional AI scripts once 0.33 is released ,so you won't have to build AI fscrip rom scratch but build upon existing.

Edited by Sentelin
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Yes,all AI behavior with small of exception of melee aliens is defined there.Melee aliens have melee weapons so if you tweak reaction modifier ( or something like that i forgot a name and I am not in front of computer right now) in weapons_gc soldiers will have more, less or not at all chance to trigger reaction fire when they face them,so this could make them more aggressive, daring or passive.

Behavior of aliens (Passive,Aggressive, Defensive-UFO contents) triggers certain patching behavior but that's about it.

Edited by Sentelin
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Making them aggressive won't make the cut.As I said problem is with how AI script from XNT V 6 is tweaked.Its tweakead in mind of old LoS algorithm and it worked well then, now what you get is alliens runnimg,camping gettimg stuck in infinite back/forth running loop and costant tries to sneak behind soldier back through whole squad (this is doable because of persistent LOS but AI is trying too hard to use this exploit making game limear and not interesting.

.I started with making changes in script to improve AI behaviour but I have never finished and TD single handedly just before release did bunch of tweaking that didn't make sense (including. all changes I made) and were not tested , in your place I would disregard xnt script all together and start from scratch.

Or wait for CE 0.33.Actually both of u could help llunak with testing his changes and along way get familiar with how AI will function,not to say that you will have functional AI scripts once 0.33 is released ,so you won't have to build AI fscrip rom scratch but build upon existing.

Actually the main steam of AI scripts is there but there are 3 or 5 files that affect scripts.

Sentelin is right about XNT AI module is build with older LoS but in my experiences it work well. Need some adjustements.

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Well I am now part of CP program and from the look in source code, I can tell you TD that aiprops.xml is all that matters in the end.Sure there are some "outside " factors that affect behavior in certain way (like an example of melee aliens I mentioned above ) but what AI will do with it,is ultimately decided within aiprops.xml

Edited by Sentelin
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I can tell how terror site GC goes for me:

- first half is a battle near the dropship, usually lots of action. Some aliens keep coming from the middle parts of teh map

- eventually this is over, some aliens - between 1/2 and 1/3 of the initial quantity - keep sitting in buildings on the farther part of the map

- if you come close they go out and fight. So better is to wipe them cautiously, one by one

I don't see what can be significantly changed here. I.e. what exactly do you want to see?

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Well I am now part of CP program and from the look in source code, I can tell you TD that aiprops.xml is all that matters in the end.Sure there are some "outside " factors that affect behavior in certain way (like an example of melee aliens I mentioned above ) but what AI will do with it is ultimately decided within aiprops.xml

Look sentelin I dont know what is your problem with me, but you dont need to tell me, Im not interested.

There are other files that count the number of loops and iterations in calculations. Im only trying here to lend all my knoledge to people like Podbelski that want to make his own tweaks.

Otherwise you can visit your psychiatrist cuz non of my message were for you.

@ Podbelski, if you are interested in builds your own scripts and adjust AI prop parameters led me know.

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Ok,so reason why fight at the beginning is so tense is that aliens are set to be aggressive,have values that enchant their awareness shoot potential and you can to some degree control how close to landing point will alien be positioned (so that's reason why as soon as you exit helicopter,you are in though spot). There probably other factors that have their role but without close look I can't tell.

I believe this part should remain as it is,however second part where aliens bulk up in buildings and come out when you get closer is what bothers me.So some thoughts:

-Remaining aliens should regroup instead and then advance.However this could lead to impossible victory given how aliens in XNT are strong but it's doable.

-If they tend to stay inside building then they should do so and wait for assault on building before making move.This can be done by making AI "deaf".You see almost all aliens in XNT have high positive NearestEnemy value.This value tells AI where is nearest enemy.So you get why they get out of hiding as soon as you get close to them.

The higher you set value (as you can see in aiprops comment it's preferable 0.2) AI will have knowledge that enemy is somewhere nearby on global level,not exact location but it's precise and take into count all obstacles.Try lowering it below 0.2 because then,AI will be aware of only nearby enemies.

-AI is probably too aware of where their allies have died and they tend to avoid those tiles which probably (actually most likely) is result of why AI position aliens in building at far end.So I checked script of XNT aiprops and I have seen this:

		<!-- Scripts used: Aggressive, Defensive, Guard, Command, Civilian, FriendlyAI; Currently only Pathing is overridable -->	<ScriptOverrides MODMERGE="update">		<Passive MODMERGE="update">			[b]<!-- Ensure that the Passive AI doesn't respond to requests for help that eagerly (Goal) and sticks more to hidden locations -->[/b>>This  is for passive AI[/u]			<Pathing 				Environment = "-20"				Sight="0.5" 				Sound="-0.3"				Cover="-5"				ShotPotential="-10"				EnemyInfluence="-2"				AlliedInfluence="-1"				Ambush="-20"				[b]Trepidation="20"[/b] >>> Holy cow ..				EnemyLOS="1.3"				AlliedLOS="0.5"				ProbabilisticSearch="-0.8"				NearestEnemy="-0.5"				Goal="-5" />		</Passive>		<Aggressive MODMERGE="update">			[b]<!-- Ensure that the Passive AI doesn't respond to requests for help that eagerly (Goal) and sticks more to hidden locations -->[/b][u]>>This  is for aggressive AI[/u]			<Pathing 				Sight="2.3" 				Cover="-3"				ShotPotential="-18"				EnemyInfluence="-4"				AlliedInfluence="-1"				[b]Ambush="-20"[/b]				[b]Trepidation="8"[/b]				EnemyLOS="1.3"				ProbabilisticSearch="-3.0"				NearestEnemy="-1.3"				Goal="-10" />		</Aggressive>		<Defensive MODMERGE="update">			[b]<!-- Ensure that the Passive AI doesn't respond to requests for help that eagerly (Goal) and sticks more to hidden locations -->[/b]>>This is patching for defensive alien[/u]			<Pathing 				Sight="0.7" 				Sound="-0.3"				Cover="-5"				ShotPotential="-18"				EnemyInfluence="-0.5"				Ambush="-20"				EnemyLOS="1.4"				ProbabilisticSearch="-3"				NearestEnemy="-0.9"				Goal="-10" />			<Decision 					MinimumAccuracy = "0.15"							MinimumAccuracyGrenade = "0.10" />		</Defensive>		<Command MODMERGE="update">		[<!-- Ensure that the Passive AI doesn't respond to requests for help that eagerly (Goal) and sticks more to hidden locations -->>>[u]This is for  command AI[/u]			<Pathing 				Sight="0.8" 				Cover="-7"				ShotPotential="-25"				EnemyInfluence="-4"				AlliedInfluence="-2"				[b]Ambush="-20"[/b]				[b]Trepidation="10"[/b]				EnemyLOS="1.5"				ProbabilisticSearch="-0.3"				NearestEnemy="-1.5"				Goal="-15"  /> 			<Decision 					MinimumAccuracy = "0.15"							MinimumAccuracyGrenade = "0.10" />		</Command>		<Guard MODMERGE="update">			[<!-- Ensure that the Passive AI doesn't respond to requests for help that eagerly (Goal) and sticks more to hidden locations -->>>[u]This for guard  AI and it seems nothing is overridden here[/u]		<Pathing 				Sight="2.5" 				Cover="-5"				EnemyInfluence="-3"				ShotPotential="-20"				AlliedInfluence="-0.5"				Ambush="-30"				[b]Trepidation="10"[/b]				EnemyLOS="3.0"				ProbabilisticSearch="-3"				NearestEnemy="-1.5"				Goal="-10"  /> 			<Decision 					MinimumAccuracy = "0.15"							MinimumAccuracyGrenade = "0.1" />		</Guard>	</ScriptOverrides></Behaviour>

So what do you see here ? First,it's messy work of copy/paste and you can hardly make any sense.Second Trepidation is set high.Try lowering to 5-6 because aliens get racial Trepidation bonus a top of patching.

Also to get aliens act less "sneaky" and somewhat natural start by setting setting Ambush somewhere between -10 and 0.0. For same reason as Trepidation (besides patching there are racial bonuses too ..).

This is enough to get you going but heed my advice,you should start building aiprops from scratch.XNT script has grown large in size and many important elements seem identical so you will often miss them (spaghetti code or close to that ... it happens when you copy/paste and just modify a bit,instead of writing part of code.Well it's close to that anyway since you can't call XML sheet a code really).

Along the way you will also have better understanding of AI if you start anew,rather than scratch your head looking at XNT script and ask yourself "how","why","where".

Edited by Sentelin
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Remember that aliens hiding in buldings was the result of player complaints that the aliens in a Terror mission were too aggressive. Prior to aliens being spread out what would happen was successive waves of aliens would ahead straight for the dropship, making each terror mission a recreation of the Alamo which was concidered inadequate and a waste of the map.

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I think we need a good basic AI coding guide.. 2,3 lines for every command with its limit and results..

I want to be a tester about this but i still dont know any idea about many of the aiprop commands.. so i think you need to know every command because even one number can change the AI so much..

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  • 3 weeks later...

I installed XNT 6.0 on a fresh steam installation of Xenonaughts and all of the basic weaponry is missing, Frag Grenades, Rifles, Shotguns, only the researched weapons can be used, is this a mod feature??? It means I cant equip my squad until I have researched and manufactured Multiammo weapons or the alternate shotguns, ak47 excetra, have the basic weapons been removed??:confused:

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Installation

0. Prepare a clean game build, should be v1.09+XCE0.31 or above. I haven't tried it with Xenonauts v1.5, at least one player reported XNT compatibility problems.

1. Download the XNT 6.0 here

It is already patched to work with the latest XCE and bundled with FitH "No smoke no Fire Edition". Install into the mods folder

-OR- 1a. get the original unpatched XNT

...and patch it yourself

2. Download the OOS mod pack, extract into the mods folder: [ATTACH]6257[/ATTACH]

In case of reinstallation just overwrite everything.

3. The mod pack comes in 4 pieces, order them as follows and activate:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]6171[/ATTACH]

4. Play! And please read the following two posts for some hints.

PS I also recommend the "Armored Assault!" mod from Kabill. It should have lesser priority in the modloader otherwise vehicle prices will be inconsistent with my mod. Atm lategame prices might be still out of line, I'll fix these a bit later.

When I download Out of the Sun v1.12.zip I do NOT get the 4 pieces specified...I just the XNT patched (Listed as 5 in list)...I do not get 1 thru 4 with author podbelski.

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  • 5 months later...

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