Totally Confused About Psionics

Ok, I've read like 500+ posts here about psionics, and witnessed umpteen changes being incorporated by GH. I'm now totally, completely lost as to how psionics work. Can anybody clarify things, as in what attacks have what range and what effect at what TU cost and launchable by what aliens? Or direct me to the relevant game files?

I can't be the only one that's lost about this (I hope). It's like there should be a table generated and made a sticky post for people to refer to

The powers aliens have and their psionic strength is contained in "aiprops".

"psionicpowers_gc" contains TU, range, and strength modifier information.

EDIT: And, for reference, the psionic attack system is:

Random Roll (up to alien psionic strength) vs. Random Roll (up to target morale).

Every tile beyond the power's range gives +1 to the target's defence, but I'm not sure if that is added before or after the random roll.

And I could be wrong about this, but I think all psionic powers are squad sight. (Except Dread, which works differently apparently).

Thank you. That helps some. But looking at those files (as I have before too) brings up almost as many questions as are answered.

1. Psi powers can't be squadsight, unless there are still gaps in the UFO hulls. I've swept the maps outside more than once and still had my guys being attacked before I entered the UFO or opened the access door.

2. I thought psi defense was based strictly on bravery, not morale. Was I wrong, or has this changed?

3. The AP costs listed for psi powers are confusing. Several of them (hallucinate, paralyze, and locate enemies) show an AP cost of 1. Does this mean a psionic alien can attempt to use these powers 70 times if he has 70 TUs? Are the terms AP and TU analogous?

4. What is this "locate enemies" power? Is it being used to find Xenonauts out of LOS/squadsight?

5. Dread shows an effect in these files (lose 30% AP) but no AP cost for using

6. Yes, it'd be interesting to know if the +1 was added before or after the roll

7. So if, say, a caesan leader has a psi strength of 80 (per the files) he rolls a number from 1-80? And then if his target has morale of 90 he rolls a number from 1-90? That can't be right. What are the parameters of these rolls? Or is it a random roll of, say, a 12-sided die that is added TO the psi strength and morale ratings?

8. I cannot find an effects description for berserk or hallucinate. The other powers are self-explanatory (paralyze) or explained (fear is morale -50%), but not those two

9. How is range calculated if psi powers are squadsight? Range to target from caster, or range to target from spotter? If it's from the caster, I'm being hit by attacks from clean across the map at times (i.e. as soon as I step out of a dropship, and caster is eventually found in UFO on the other end of the map)

10. Is there a cooldown period for psi attacks? Can one of my soldiers be M.C.'ed repeatedly every turn?

11. If a map has two (I believe that's now the limit) psionic aliens, can they gang up on one soldier? If a soldier withstands an attack from alien A can alien B then hit him?

Lol if I keep thinking about this I'm sure I'll have even more questions....

Psionic powers seem to be global, psi defence was changed to morale a while ago, hallucinate and locate enemies are defunct, paralyse probably needs to have a higher AP cost, not all variables for psi powers are included in the xml you're reading, according to the release notes a random roll up to psionic strength verses a random roll up to morale is right, my tests using unarmed psions suggest psi powers are measured from the psyker, no cooldown, no reason why 2 psi units couldn't attack one solider.

Thank you. That helps some. But looking at those files (as I have before too) brings up almost as many questions as are answered.

1. Psi powers can't be squadsight, unless there are still gaps in the UFO hulls. I've swept the maps outside more than once and still had my guys being attacked before I entered the UFO or opened the access door.

You might be right. I thought this was supposed to be the case, and when I was playing yesterday I wasn't suffering psionic attacks without being spotted. But I might be wrong/there might be bugs? Are you playing the latest build?

2. I thought psi defense was based strictly on bravery, not morale. Was I wrong, or has this changed?

Changed from bravery to morale, yes.

3. The AP costs listed for psi powers are confusing. Several of them (hallucinate, paralyze, and locate enemies) show an AP cost of 1. Does this mean a psionic alien can attempt to use these powers 70 times if he has 70 TUs? Are the terms AP and TU analogous?

They've all been cut, I think. Although I thought paralyze was still in for Reaper Alphas. Maybe they can do it once per turn but basically for free or something? I don't know, but it's been like that for a while and I've not noticed anyone talking about paralysis spamming.

4. What is this "locate enemies" power? Is it being used to find Xenonauts out of LOS/squadsight?

Removed. It was either broken or never fully implemented.

5. Dread shows an effect in these files (lose 30% AP) but no AP cost for using

Not 100% sure, but I think it's a 'free' power that tries to affect all of your units every turn. The only time I've encountered it was when I was doing some testing the other day, but when it happened it occurred right on the first turn before I did anything, so I assume that's how it works.

7. So if, say, a caesan leader has a psi strength of 80 (per the files) he rolls a number from 1-80? And then if his target has morale of 90 he rolls a number from 1-90? That can't be right. What are the parameters of these rolls? Or is it a random roll of, say, a 12-sided die that is added TO the psi strength and morale ratings?

First explanation was right. Essentially, attacker and defender roll a die with a number of sides equal to their psi/morale score.

8. I cannot find an effects description for berserk or hallucinate. The other powers are self-explanatory (paralyze) or explained (fear is morale -50%), but not those two

Hallucinate got cut. Berserk make the soldier shoot randomly/at friendly units, by my understanding.

9. How is range calculated if psi powers are squadsight? Range to target from caster, or range to target from spotter? If it's from the caster, I'm being hit by attacks from clean across the map at times (i.e. as soon as I step out of a dropship, and caster is eventually found in UFO on the other end of the map)

No evidence for this, but I'd be surprised if it was from anything other than the caster. The coding would be super complex otherwise.

10. Is there a cooldown period for psi attacks? Can one of my soldiers be M.C.'ed repeatedly every turn?

It was discussed but I don't think it was implemented.

11. If a map has two (I believe that's now the limit) psionic aliens, can they gang up on one soldier? If a soldier withstands an attack from alien A can alien B then hit him?

Can't see why not. I guess part of the point of Fear is that it halves the target's morale, making them vulnerable to other psionic attacks.

Quite possible stuff above is incorrect. This is more or less from gleaning things here and in game.

Thanks Max! But.........lol..............

1. Psi powers are "global"? What does that mean? Does that mean they can strike at any range, less the effective range modifier?

2. Those roll parameters sure don't seem balanced. So if the RNG gives a praetor leader a roll of 20, and my spanking-new rookie a roll of 30, my greenhorn can shrug off the praetor's attack? Really? Shouldn't there be a baseline and then a modifier?

3. I could've sworn Chris recently said that berserk was being changed to hallucinate, mainly to prevent soldiers from firing on their comrades?

4. So a caesan officer with 60 TUs can launch paralyze 60 times? Really? Against multiple targets? Paralyzing your entire team? There has to be some kind of limitation on that, such as use only until initial success

6. And still questions 1, 5, 6, and 8 above

EDIT: Saw kabill's response after posting this. He answered 5 and 8, and from both of your posts I guess Chris changed his mind and tossed hallucinate

2. Those roll parameters sure don't seem balanced. So if the RNG gives a praetor leader a roll of 20, and my spanking-new rookie a roll of 30, my greenhorn can shrug off the praetor's attack? Really? Shouldn't there be a baseline and then a modifier?

I'm not sure there's any need for a base line. Some times an alien screws up its psionic attack; that seems reasonable. Also, adding in a baseline would make psionics more powerful and make soldiers below bravery X utterly useless in the late game since they'd always succumb to psionic attacks.

3. I could've sworn Chris recently said that berserk was being changed to hallucinate, mainly to prevent soldiers from firing on their comrades?

The berserk power is being rebranded as hallucinate to justify soldiers shooting at their friends. I guess internally it's still using the same labels though, as it's simpler?

Wow, kabill, thank you for the extremely detailed answer. That must've taken you some time. Between you and Max, the fog in my brain has become slightly less dense

In response: Yes, using 22.9. Paralyze is being shown in those files as a caesan officer ability, unless the game is ignoring that?

As a side note, I never knew alpha reapers could paralyze. Never experienced that

The berserk power is being rebranded as hallucinate to justify soldiers shooting at their friends. I guess internally it's still using the same labels though, as it's simpler?

If we are a little pedantic hallucinate should theoretically disable the chance to shoot at the aliens entirely as it makes little sense the caster would leave any of his team at risk (making them appear as civilians or children in the eyes of the victim). Although it is okay as it is for me, and it would have been okay if it was still berserk. Perhaps a general research when you first encounter psi opponents would have helped clarify this for the player better than making the ability name intuitive - but it's not even an issue for me personally.

As a side note, I never knew alpha reapers could paralyze. Never experienced that

I didn't know that either, how does it work? Is it different than panic?

Also, adding in a baseline would make psionics more powerful and make soldiers below bravery X utterly useless in the late game since they'd always succumb to psionic attacks.

The berserk power is being rebranded as hallucinate to justify soldiers shooting at their friends. I guess internally it's still using the same labels though, as it's simpler?

Lol I keep crossing posts with you. By the time I compose a response you've already posted again.

Ok, so hallucinate is out, but now berserk is actually hallucinate. Good grief. Can you see now why I'm lost?

To your first point "soldiers below bravery X", yes, but you're confusing me again. I thought it was based on morale now, not bravery. Basing it on morale is a whole different story, as even low-bravery troops get boosts from teammates being nearby, high-ranking officers being on the squad, etc., so they could have a decent chance to resist mental attacks. And I personally don't think a rookie should ever have any chance of resisting a praetor, but that's just my opinion, and straying off the subject

If we are a little pedantic hallucinate should theoretically disable the chance to shoot at the aliens entirely as it makes little sense the caster would leave any of his team at risk.

Not necessarily. For example, the US armed Iran to the teeth under the Shah. Then we act surprised when Iran turns our own guns against us? Or a dealer sells a junkie some PCP or acid. Then he's surprised when the junkie tries to stab him? The aliens are taking a calculated risk using hallucinate, and if they get shot, oh well!

Lol I keep crossing posts with you. By the time I compose a response you've already posted again.

Ok, so hallucinate is out, but now berserk is actually hallucinate. Good grief. Can you see now why I'm lost?

To your first point "soldiers below bravery X", yes, but you're confusing me again. I thought it was based on morale now, not bravery. Basing it on morale is a whole different story, as even low-bravery troops get boosts from teammates being nearby, high-ranking officers being on the squad, etc., so they could have a decent chance to resist mental attacks. And I personally don't think a rookie should ever have any chance of resisting a praetor, but that's just my opinion, and straying off the subject

Sorry, my point was just that bravery is one of the key variables. If there was a morale threshold above which you had to have in order to be able to resist an attack, then soldiers with an especially low bravery would be next to useless, at least without significant buffs anyway.

In terms of rookies resisting psionics less well, the game's not built to handle that. Bravery is the stat most difficult to improve, so rookies are pretty much as likely to have high bravery as hardened veterans.

I'm tempted post release to do a little mod though which would buff psionic strength a little but also buff the bonuses from medals so that experienced soldiers with a lot of medals will tend to have higher bravery than inexperienced soldiers.

Not necessarily. For example, the US armed Iran to the teeth under the Shah. Then we act surprised when Iran turns our own guns against us? Or a dealer sells a junkie some PCP or acid. Then he's surprised when the junkie tries to stab him? The aliens are taking a calculated risk using hallucinate, and if they get shot, oh well!

Doesn't sound like we can compare that to alien beings whose brains reportedly consume the energy an entire town would need just to function

.I'm tempted post release to do a little mod though which would buff psionic strength a little but also buff the bonuses from medals so that experienced soldiers with a lot of medals will tend to have higher bravery than inexperienced soldiers.

That would be the bomb. There should definitely be more weight given to a soldier's experience than his baseline bravery. I mean, seriously, if one of your colonels has been through 30-40-50 ground missions, don't you think he's overcome his initial trepidation??? Whereas low-level troops without that experience should be more vulnerable and more tied to their baseline bravery; it's all they've got to go on so far

I'd scoop that mod up in a heartbeat, but of course it's up to you, I don't know how much effort would be involved, but you'd be doing it for probably a limited audience

Back to the OP, is the listing for caesan officer paralyze not correct? If so, that would explain the 1 TU cost, since it's irrelevant or being ignored by the game. But if it is correct (as one would think, since it's the only psionic power listed for caesan officers) can they actually use paralyze 60 times if they have 60 TU?

Doesn't sound like we can compare that to alien beings whose brains reportedly consume the energy an entire town would need just to function

Um, well, yeah, ok, but then explain to me how a single human (our sarcastic chief scientist) outthinks the entire gang of them...? Or how we can land a dropship unopposed on the final mission? Or a hundred other stupid things these genius aliens do?

I'd scoop that mod up in a heartbeat, but of course it's up to you, I don't know how much effort would be involved, but you'd be doing it for probably a limited audience

Well, it would have been a two minute job. Except it turns out you can't. I could have sworn that it was possible to change it, but I'm wondering now whether I'm getting confused by a thread a while back about changing medals. Oh well.

Um, well, yeah, ok, but then explain to me how a single human (our sarcastic chief scientist) outthinks the entire gang of them...? Or how we can land a dropship unopposed on the final mission? Or a hundred other stupid things these genius aliens do?

Those are things I've raised as something that can be addressed, expanding the story/gameplay in a potential expansion/mod in the process - so I've noticed the common logic is kind of stretched there. Not that it demands game-breaking suspension of disbelief or something.

I'm tempted post release to do a little mod though which would buff psionic strength a little but also buff the bonuses from medals so that experienced soldiers with a lot of medals will tend to have higher bravery than inexperienced soldiers.

Too bad it can't be tweaked at all, medals probably should have a more significant impact especially against psi attacks. I'd like to have them feel as achievements to aim for with enhanced practical use after rather than something you will stumble upon sooner or later if you keep a soldier alive long enough. Although I don't know how psi powers are balanced in the experimental builds.

Doesn't sound like we can compare that to alien beings whose brains reportedly consume the energy an entire town would need just to function

If it helps, don't think of Hallucinate as being the alien directly creating images in the soldier's brain; it's more like it goes in and triggers the equivalent of an LSD hit. The soldier starts to see things that aren't there, or sees things that are there differently, but how it perceives things (or reacts to them) is not under the alien's direct control.

Ok, I'm once again outside a landing ship, exterior map 100% cleared, and the caesans inside are hitting me with psionic attacks. So either there are still gaps in the UFO hulls, or the game is cheating somehow and knows where my troops are. Is this what Max meant when he said psi powers are "global", i.e. omniscient?

And paralysis is still definitely in the game, that's what the caesans are using

Yes, I presume that's what was meant by 'global'. And yes, I got a soldier paralysed too yesterday.

You probably did see this, but Chris said in another thread that psionics are working properly at the moment in 22.9.

Hmmm. That means los/squadsight is irrelevant. Paralysis can hit you anywhere and everywhere. And there's nothing you can do about it short of eventually tracking down the killing the caster. Unless this applies only to paralysis, and thereby somehow explains that ability's stated AP cost of 1. Maybe that means paralysis can be used just once per turn, but targeted at any point on the map?

I haven't gotten to cruisers and caesan leaders yet. Very interested to see how their dread and MC powers are going to work. Paralysis is no biggie, but if dread and MC are "global" too....

I'm still confused

Between 22.6 and 22.9 psychic powers have gone through several version of LOS. As far as I can tell, all powers at the moment are global in nature - the psyker does not require LOS, or squad sight to use their power. Dread was previously intended as a passive ability, so I'm guessing it doesn't need an AP cost as it's always on.

Thereby all psionic aliens know where my troops are at all times, and are really only limited by the range modifier, which prob discourages them from using their power until a certain % chance success threshold is reached (just like shooting). Ok, I'll buy that, so long as their knowledge of my soldiers' location is exclusive to them. Thank you for the input

BTW, the reason I'm going on and on about this is I've been plugging away at writing a game guide, with the last section left being psionics, and I'm trying not to present inaccurate or guessed-at information