[suggestion] Inventory size change

[thothkins]

I think the idea is that you'll never be in the air to make a reaction shot.

During that soldier's turn, he/she will begin a jump but will have to end it within the APs that they have left. So, at start and end of their turn they will be on the ground/ roof.

If you meant alien reaction shots to your jump suit, then yes, they should be able to shoot you out of the sky.

[Tacobandit]

I think the idea is that you'll never be in the air to make a reaction shot.

During that soldier's turn, he/she will begin a jump but will have to end it within the APs that they have left. So, at start and end of their turn they will be on the ground/ roof.

If you meant alien reaction shots to your jump suit, then yes, they should be able to shoot you out of the sky.

But how would the reaction shot work. Actually, how do reaction shots work in this game? Is it the formula they used in the OG? Because it would matter in this case. Does the jump consume TUs as soon as you jump, or as soon as you land? Because that could be the difference between getting shot and making it down safely.

[Max_Caine]

Pass. No idea. Can't tell from the assets, and there isn't much info about the jump pack or reaction fire.

[Gauddlike]

The assets do list a vertical and horizontal jump AP cost in config.xml

Not sure if that will be spent as part of a standard movement (i.e. per tile) or if it is just used to calculate total AP cost for a jump.

If you played W40k Chaos Gate there were assault marines with jump packs.

Range was limited, you couldn't land under an overhanging object, you also didn't trigger reaction fire on the way in.

It worked in that game because the assault marines were close combat so couldn't stay out at range and were quite vulnerable to ranged enemies until they got into jump range.

It was also had a set AP pool that recharged over multiple turns if I remember rightly so you wouldn't be able to perform regular long jumps.

Either keep them out of the fight until you had enough charge to jump right to the enemy or use multiple short jumps to bounce between cover.

In Xeno jump armour is lighter so you probably won't be using it to close on the enemy for melee unless you are sure of a kill, or a stun at least.

If jump suits can use the precision rifle it could be interesting though.

[Max_Caine]

Hmm.... at a guess, I would probbably say the reaction fire would be worked out at the end of the jump, to make things simple.

[Gauddlike]

What if the end of your jump left you out of sight of the enemy who was trying to shoot?

Might as well only have the takeoff and landing be vulnerable to reaction fire otherwise it could lead to even more complications.

That would probably be when you were most noticeable anyway if there is a visible/audible discharge from the pack anyway.

This is drifting away from the inventory size discussion though.

[thothkins]

alien 1: what the hell was that noise?!

alien 2: oh, it's one of the humans' jump packs.

alien1: where is it?

alien2: should be reaching the top of it's arc in a moment...there!

alien1: right, shoot it ebfore it gets abck down into cover.

alien2: No we can't do that.

alien1: why the h3ll not?! it'll be behind cover when it lands.

alien2: nope. We just can't. It's some sort of rule.

alien1: what?! but it can just sneak..>pew pew< both are killed by Xenonaut from it's new cover position (with a star wars style laser)

In other words, if a force can see the enemy clear of cover in an elevated position, I have no idea why they wouldn't have a go at shooting it. That's one of the risks in using the equipment, and it would seem a bit odd otherwise.

[Gauddlike]

Especially if someone were to modify your jump suit so it yelled PULL every time you tried to use it.

Just thinking out loud...

[thothkins]

yeah, that would be another tell tale that there were jump suits in the area.

Cdr Gauddlike: tech! how is the plasma research going.

tech: We can't get the raw materials to continue. The aliens all reverted to shotguns as soon as we introduced Jump-Packs.

Cdr Gauddlike: I wonder if it's connected to all their uniforms now including wellies, anoraks and a lot of tweed...

[Tacobandit]

alien 1: what the hell was that noise?!

alien 2: oh, it's one of the humans' jump packs.

alien1: where is it?

alien2: should be reaching the top of it's arc in a moment...there!

alien1: right, shoot it ebfore it gets abck down into cover.

alien2: No we can't do that.

alien1: why the h3ll not?! it'll be behind cover when it lands.

alien2: nope. We just can't. It's some sort of rule.

alien1: what?! but it can just sneak..>pew pew< both are killed by Xenonaut from it's new cover position (with a star wars style laser)

In other words, if a force can see the enemy clear of cover in an elevated position, I have no idea why they wouldn't have a go at shooting it. That's one of the risks in using the equipment, and it would seem a bit odd otherwise.

If the reaction fire system is based solely on whether you can shoot, and not comparing your reaction scores against each other like it did in the OG, then yes, that makes sense.

However, if it does compare the scores, then if the jumping dude's reaction score is higher than the alien's while in mid-jump, he's good. Now depending on whether the TUs are subtracted before or after the launch could substantially affect that.

[thothkins]

yes, but in the example above, the aliens are able to stand and watch the jumping Xenonaut, yet are unable to shoot at it because the game tells them they can't. Clearly they have reaction APs to burn.

Teh point being exactly as you say, if they have the time and the opportunity then they should be able to fire. If it's a quick jump or they have used up all of their APs then that's a different example.

[Tacobandit]

yes, but in the example above, the aliens are able to stand and watch the jumping Xenonaut, yet are unable to shoot at it because the game tells them they can't. Clearly they have reaction APs to burn.

Teh point being exactly as you say, if they have the time and the opportunity then they should be able to fire. If it's a quick jump or they have used up all of their APs then that's a different example.

Yes but if your soldier has high reactions, he still might have a higher reaction score than the aliens. That's my point. If it counts the TU loss before the jump, he might not have the higher reaction score. If it deducts them after he lands, he might have the higher reaction score.

[thothkins]

Ah, when I picture the jump pack, it's a quite unwieldy piece of equipment. Sort of a lighter version of the Starship Troopers device. The UFO ET game version took up the whole inventory space as another example.

Here's a 1968 jet pack picture

So, even if the jet pack user has high reactions, there's only so much manoeuvrability that he has. Sometimes having the higher reaction score simply means that you know your enemy has a good chance of shooting you before they do

[Tacobandit]

Ah, when I picture the jump pack, it's a quite unwieldy piece of equipment. Sort of a lighter version of the Starship Troopers device. The UFO ET game version took up the whole inventory space as another example.

Here's a 1968 jet pack picture

[ATTACH=CONFIG]1824[/ATTACH]

So, even if the jet pack user has high reactions, there's only so much manoeuvrability that he has. Sometimes having the higher reaction score simply means that you know your enemy has a good chance of shooting you before they do

Having the higher reaction score means that the alien can't shoot you at all.

[Gauddlike]

Yes but if your soldier has high reactions, he still might have a higher reaction score than the aliens. That's my point. If it counts the TU loss before the jump, he might not have the higher reaction score. If it deducts them after he lands, he might have the higher reaction score.

AP amount and reaction stat are not related though, unless there is a modifier based on number of AP used in an action but I have never noticed that relationship.

Your soldier would still have the same reaction stat regardless of if he was taking off, landing, in mid air, throwing a grenade, etc.

His reaction stat would also remain the same if he was standing with 100 AP at the start of his turn or kneeling with 10AP at the end.

The difference would be purely where on the path a calculation takes place or which action would trigger the opportunity.

When walking each individual action seems to provide a comparison roll to determine a reaction shot.

Each tile crossed in view of the enemy gives a chance to shoot, each shot fired does the same and so on.

The question is mainly if the same is true of jumping.

Does each tile crossed in the air allow the same reaction fire opportunity or will only takeoff and landing be classed as actions for this?

Is movement when jumping going to be the same as walking but with a different animation and sound effect (as x-com flying armour) or will it basically be a teleport with a jump animation between the two points (as chaos gate assault marines).

Hopefully it won't be long until we can all have a play with that and find out how Chris wanted it done:)

Wonder if the function is in game yet.

Might be worth unlocking the jump armour and having a look...

[thothkins]

I think I said as much, but having a teleport effect just doesn't seem right.

If it were to be that, I'd prefer it if the Xenonauts managed to get some kind of teleport device from the aliens later in the game. At least the effect would then match the description. Or it's a jump pack as in teleportation jump, not as in Jet Pack.

If the combat boot were on the other foot: You see an alien leaping through the air in it's turn. It's not particularly fast, it's in the middle of it's arc and you have plenty of reaction opportunities. But you can't shoot it. Ever. It would just look odd.

[Tacobandit]

I think I said as much, but having a teleport effect just doesn't seem right.

If it were to be that, I'd prefer it if the Xenonauts managed to get some kind of teleport device from the aliens later in the game. At least the effect would then match the description. Or it's a jump pack as in teleportation jump, not as in Jet Pack.

If the combat boot were on the other foot: You see an alien leaping through the air in it's turn. It's not particularly fast, it's in the middle of it's arc and you have plenty of reaction opportunities. But you can't shoot it. Ever. It would just look odd.

You ever have those slowpoke soldiers with 30 reactions, who let chryssalids run up to them and zombify them without ever shooting?

[thothkins]

yes, but they were stricken with terror. That's why they couldn't shoot.