Mod Idea: Spicing up the Weapons

[moghopper]

Hey all. Now I really love the weapons in Xenonauts, and its obvious that a lot of work has been put into them. However, to me each tier is too much of strait upgrade over the previous.

What I'm proposing is a mod to differentiate each tier of weapons to a greater degree, giving players reasons to stick with lower tiered weapons over higher tiered ones.

Tier 1 (Ballistic)

I think these should be left alone, except for the addition of two more weapons

-The Minigun: Fires 10 rounds per burst, but is stupidly heavy and innacurate. Most soldiers would be able to carry this and nothing else.

-The Assault Cannon: A Researched weapon that fires high damage slugs either in single shots or 3 round bursts. Heavier than the machine gun, but packs more punch and better accuracy

Tier 2 (Laser)

I think these should be given unlimited ammo (Like old X-com), and be made into long range, single shot weapons and given better armor negation. Most weapons would be changed and one added.

-Laser Pistol: Given longer range and better accuracy

-Laser Rifle: Changed to Single shot only, but given higher accuracy and armor negation as well as improved range

-Laser Cycler: Changed from the carbine to fire two shot bursts with good accuracy

-Precision Laser: Given improved Range and armor negation but otherwise left alone

-Laser Cannon: Change from scatter laser. Fires High Power, mid Range shots. Good at punching through armor

-Laser Shotgun: Short-Mid Range. More accurate than ballistic shotgun

Tier 3 (Plasma)

I think Plasma weapons should be given a boost in power, and set tiles on fire. As a tradeoff, they would have lower accuracy and much smaller clips. Aside from this, weapons would remain the same, but with one additional weapon.

-Plasma Cannon: Fires a single projectile that explodes on contact, doing massive damage and setting everything in the blast on fire.

Tier 4 (MAG)

I like these weapons a lot, but I think they should have larger clips and higher accuracy. This, coupled with their already high damage would make them surgeons weapons. Additionally, due to their velocity they would make armor a complete joke. One weapon would be significantly changed, and one altered. However, these weapons would be VERY expensive to produce and be made heavier to boot.

-Railgun: changed from the MAG precision. Has massively upped damage and range, but can only be used with predator armor and has a huge Time unit cost.

-MAG Driver: Essentially a MAG shotgun, shorter range, but low Time unit usage and decent magazine

So, when choosing weapons each tier would have its own advantages over the others.

Do I use lasers for their infinite ammo and great accuracy, but lose out on burst fire?

Do I use Plasma for its incredible punch, but suffer for the poor accuracy and low magazine sizes?

Or do I use MAG weapons, with their decent magazines, Great range, punch and accuracy, but suffer from their higher weight, and great cost?

What do you all think? Good idea, bad idea? Possible?

Edited January 4, 2014 by moghopper

[Max_Caine]

I've had a look through your suggestions. A few things to note:

1) There has to be armour for armour to be punched through. At the moment, very few aliens have anything like the kind of armour XN squaddies have (in fact, only top tier Androns get above Jackal armour!).

2) Consider that each weapons tier has to be researched, then built and paid for. That's payment not only for the actual item, but for the salaries for scientists (and each tier is progressively harder to research), the salaries of engineers (with each tier becoming longer to manufacture) and the associated maintenance costs for workshops/laboratories/barrack space. There's a considerable amount of effort to reach a new tier of weapons tech, in which time the player becomes accustomed to the previous tier and spends a lot of time and money equipped his soliders with them. The first thing on the player's mind when he gets to a new tier will be "is this worth it?". The new tier must impress or why bother spenidng effort on it when that effort could be spent on aircraft, or armour, or anything!

3) Weight is negated after a certain point. You get powered armour near the end of the game, which suppliments the strength stat.

[moghopper]

I've had a look through your suggestions. A few things to note:

1) There has to be armour for armour to be punched through. At the moment, very few aliens have anything like the kind of armour XN squaddies have (in fact, only top tier Androns get above Jackal armour!).

2) Consider that each weapons tier has to be researched, then built and paid for. That's payment not only for the actual item, but for the salaries for scientists (and each tier is progressively harder to research), the salaries of engineers (with each tier becoming longer to manufacture) and the associated maintenance costs for workshops/laboratories/barrack space. There's a considerable amount of effort to reach a new tier of weapons tech, in which time the player becomes accustomed to the previous tier and spends a lot of time and money equipped his soliders with them. The first thing on the player's mind when he gets to a new tier will be "is this worth it?". The new tier must impress or why bother spending effort on it when that effort could be spent on aircraft, or armour, or anything!

3) Weight is negated after a certain point. You get powered armour near the end of the game, which supplements the strength stat.

You make some very good points.

1) I thought that I had heard aliens would be getting more. This does throw most of my idea out the window. However, if aliens do start getting armor in future updates, then things are different.

2) I understand this point as well BUT, back in the original Xcom you had to research both laser and plasma while paying the same kinds of fees in Xenonauts. Now, while lasers were weaker than plasma there are many (such as myself) that stick to lasers because of their inherent differences from plasma (Higher accuracy, low Time unit costs, and infinite ammo). I don't think this takes away from plasma, as they are most certainly worth it as well, just in a different way.

Thus, I apply the same reasoning to Xenonauts. Plasma weapons may do more damage, but what if lasers DID have infinite ammo and better accuracy? Both options are good, it just allows different players to use their preferred methods based on their personal values (such as efficiency, cost effectiveness, raw power, etc...)

3) I knew the about the Predator's strength boosting effect, but I do recall it being limited to only a few kinds of weapons, so its not a problem for weight issues. However, you do have a very valid point with weight being negated, but that is limited to more experienced soldiers, not the rank and file. This actually makes my idea a tad more interesting (in my opinion) as it means that you can have different weapons for more or less talented soldiers (Leaving heavier MAG weapons solely in the hands of the elite will giving more practical weaponry to the less talented).

I'm probably still not taking everything into account though, this is just my take on things.

[llunak]

-The Minigun: Fires 10 rounds per burst, but is stupidly heavy and innacurate. Most soldiers would be able to carry this and nothing else.

"stupidly heavy and inaccurate" is spot on - personal minigun is movie nonsense and it's completely unrealistic for Xenonauts. The second sentence should say "most soldiers wouldn't be even able to carry this, let alone fire it".

Tier 2 (Laser)

I think these should be given unlimited ammo (Like old X-com)

That's against the lore. Read the first sentence of the Xenopedia article.

Edited January 5, 2014 by llunak

[moghopper]

"stupidly heavy and inaccurate" is spot on - personal minigun is movie nonsense and it's completely unrealistic for Xenonauts. The second sentence should say "most soldiers wouldn't be even able to carry this, let alone fire it".

That's against the lore. Read the first sentence of the Xenopedia article.

Honestly, the minigun was bad idea.

As for infinite lasers being against the lore, this would just be a mod, so it can bend the lore a tad.

[TrashMan]

My own personal thoughtson weapon tiers:

1st TIER - basic ballistics

Esentially limitless, but not terribly accurate or damagaing. High rates of fire and low TU usage. Lots of ammo.

2st TIER - advanced ballistics

Modernized guns. These have to be researched and manufactures. Same as the above, but slightly better. Mostly in terms or armor damage and accuracy.

3rd TIER - lasers

Highest accuracy of all weapons. Good damage, decent armor migation. Slower RoF than ballistics and less ammo. Slight damage falloff.

4th TIER - plasma

Great damage and splash damage, good armor migation. Worst accuracy of all weapons. Damage falloff with distance.

5th TIER - MAG weapons

High armor migation, high accuracy, high damage. Low ammo, expensive.

So, accuracy:

lasers > MAG > adv. ballistics > ballistics > plasma

armor migation

MAG > plasma > adv ballistics > lasers > ballistic

core damage

MAG > plasma > laser > adv. ballistics > ballistics

TU cost:

adv. ballistics, ballistics > lasers, plasma and MAG

[Gauddlike]

The minigun could work with the predator armour though as it is basically vehicle mounted then.

[TrashMan]

"stupidly heavy and inaccurate" is spot on - personal minigun is movie nonsense and it's completely unrealistic for Xenonauts. The second sentence should say "most soldiers wouldn't be even able to carry this, let alone fire it".

Two words - power armor.

The minigun was actually man portable and usable, but the army considered it not worth the effort, given how quickly it would run out of ammo and how difficult it was to use it.

[moghopper]

My own personal thoughtson weapon tiers:

1st TIER - basic ballistics

Esentially limitless, but not terribly accurate or damagaing. High rates of fire and low TU usage. Lots of ammo.

2st TIER - advanced ballistics

Modernized guns. These have to be researched and manufactures. Same as the above, but slightly better. Mostly in terms or armor damage and accuracy.

3rd TIER - lasers

Highest accuracy of all weapons. Good damage, decent armor migation. Slower RoF than ballistics and less ammo. Slight damage falloff.

4th TIER - plasma

Great damage and splash damage, good armor migation. Worst accuracy of all weapons. Damage falloff with distance.

5th TIER - MAG weapons

High armor migation, high accuracy, high damage. Low ammo, expensive.

So, accuracy:

lasers > MAG > adv. ballistics > ballistics > plasma

armor migation

MAG > plasma > adv ballistics > lasers > ballistic

core damage

MAG > plasma > laser > adv. ballistics > ballistics

TU cost:

adv. ballistics, ballistics > lasers, plasma and MAG

I like your idea, but I think advanced ballistics should be left out (Not that its bad idea, its quite good). But I think things should go more like this:

Accuracy

Lasers>MAG>Ballistics>Plasma

Damage

Plasma>MAG>Laser>Ballistics

TU Cost:

Ballistics>Plasma>MAG>Laser

Magazine Size

Laser>Ballistics>MAG>Plasma

Fire Rate

MAG>Plasma>Ballistics>Laser

Cost

Ballistics>Laser>Plasma>MAG

[TrashMan]

RoF should definately go to ballistics, since they will have the least problem with heat or power generation.

They should be all about shooting a lot and throwing a lot of bullets. And yes, pure damage would probably go to plasma.

Of course, this goes hand in hand with re-doing aliens. Which I will do in my mod. Normalize their HP across racees, and given them proper armor. Also reduce the number of aliens per mission.

So a high damage, low armor penetration weapon like a shotun woul devasate a lightly armored or unarmored alien, but couldn't even scratch a heavily armored one. On the other end of the spectrum armor with too high armor penetration might not be that good of a damage dealer (overpenetration), but it's guarnated to mince armor.

[moghopper]

You have a point about fire rate. This is all just rough suggestion right now anyways, I'll have to wait till everything is finished before seeing what I'd change.