That global map

[Lidhuin]

I know this was discussed back in 2012, but I feel I would bring it up again:

The 2D map used results in some very unfortunate consequences:

Normally, you'd be able, and even quite interested in flying over the North Pole. Many Russian and American bases in the cold war were specifically built because of this feature (Greenland and Alaska being two great examples). A base in Greenland should be able to cover the US, northern Europe and Northern Russia, which would make it a worthwhile location (as it should be).

South America, Africa, and everywhere else along the equator is ridiculously small as a consequence of the specific type of map used.

The antarctic, an otherwise great place to land if you were an alien force trying to establish a foothold, is unfortunately left-out (note the same is not true for the north pole - we humans have bases on the south pole and not on the north pole for a reason).

My proposed solution is to measure distances in radians or degrees and trying to accurately project our influence onto the used 2d map, or to scrap the 2d map used because it is contrary to the setting (cold war & x-com) and either use a 3d globe or a different 2d map that is more useful from a military point of view.

[Gorlom]

I think this has been discussed before and it causes all kinds of issues where the game acts counterintuitive to the average players expectations.

No wait, that was probably only for displaying distance left for the plane to travel before needing to return to base, the droplet shaped range boundry indicator would look really strange... Stilll I expect there are a lot of similar problems with your idea concerning the changes to the 2D map and a 3D map is too late (and possibly not supported by the engine?).

[Lidhuin]

Is different (2D) map types something that could be modded into the game?

[Gorlom]

map types? you could change the picture and the where the different tilesets spawn.

But you wont really be able to mod in any new functions like flying over the top (polar icecaps) of the map.

[Chris]

Nah, it's pretty fundamental to the game so changing the way it is represented would break god knows how many systems. If you want a simple idea of why we're using a flat map, try to work out what the circular radar range of a base looks like on a rectangular map if you're trying to accurately represent the curvature of the Earth.

[a_beorning]

I think this has been discussed before and it causes all kinds of issues where the game acts counterintuitive to the average players expectations.

It's a serious problem. Not a problem of this game, but of our sorry civilization.

World IS counter-intuitive: intuitive world is plate on four elefants/whales/etceteras.

Every game-designer have this dilemma:

- if he do realistic, game acts counterintuitive to the average players, so he lose part of profit.

- if he do intuitive to the average players, level of "average player" move another step down. And every next game will be adapted for more and more moronic players.

...try to work out what the circular radar range of a base looks like on a rectangular map if you're trying to accurately represent the curvature of the Earth.

Yes, I understand it's too late to change.

But Chris, authors of original game solved this problem 20 years ago! They showed us non-terrible (and more or less adequate) radar range on our 2D monitors.

How I see current situation?

"We implemented this picturesque-looking Merkator projection without thinking how it will limit a game, and now, alas, it's too late to change".

[Chris]

Yes, but you can't see the entire world at once if you show a globe. You have less awareness of what's going on. Both methods have advantages and disadvantages.

Anyway, the discussion is moot - a globe is also a 3D object and the game uses a 2D engine. A globe was never going to be possible.

[Gorlom]

It's a serious problem. Not a problem of this game, but of our sorry civilization.

World IS counter-intuitive: intuitive world is plate on four elefants/whales/etceteras.

Every game-designer have this dilemma:

- if he do realistic, game acts counterintuitive to the average players, so he lose part of profit.

- if he do intuitive to the average players, level of "average player" move another step down. And every next game will be adapted for more and more moronic players.

It's not a matter of intelligence, but a matter of gameplay. Not every part of versimilitude is fun (for everyone, and I assume the majority is not overly concerned about "realism" as long as the game is fun. mind that is my assumption.). Haveing to go poop or pee every X hours after you eat or drink something to regain health in an FPS isn't fun at all, so they leave that out. Not because they think the player is too stupid to understand that if the Character were a real person he wouldn't go poop.

Haveing a truely accurate representation of the world has it's own downsides like Chris says and as such those downsides are most likely only "worth it" or tolerated by pedantic people that value versimilitude (or "realism") more than gameplay.

[a_beorning]

Yes, but you can't see the entire world at once if you show a globe. You have less awareness of what's going on.

Possible solution: show 2 hemispheres simultaneously, with synchronized rotation.

Another solution: switch between mercatoric view (see entire world, radar cicrcles distorted, on-screen plane speed depends of latitude and heading) and globe view (less view but normal circles and speed).

a globe is also a 3D object and the game uses a 2D engine. A globe was never going to be possible.

Html canvas is 2D engine too. But 3D globe is still possible and not very complicated - example here: http://bl.ocks.org/KoGor/5994960

(it's not my project - just first of several I googled)

Moreover, why use same engine for geoscape and combat?

It's really two differert application, only partially sharing common data - and original XCom crew was agree to me

Anyway, the discussion is moot

Discussion is useless for current project - but it can be useful for future projects.

[Chris]

Yup. We're definitely going to be using a 3D engine in future projects and that means we'd be able to test globes and things out right from the start.

To be honest, I do think the game is worse for having a 2D map instead of a globe like the original EU. But we can't do anything about it now so I'll just consider it a lesson learned and move on.

[Redwallzyl]

why not use the map with the curved edges those are more accurate than a rectangle map.

[a_beorning]

why not use the map with the curved edges those are more accurate than a rectangle map.

Because of simplicity of scrolling.

Rectangle map can be scrolled in east-west direction without total recalculating of image: map is a fixed image, we only change its horisontal offset.

Any curved edge map projections need to be totally recalculated when scroll: you have not a fixed image, but multiple polygons distorted in accordance with their current position.

Problem is not "continents are distorted", they are distorted in any case because we do not have real 3D monitors yet.

Problem is "continents are distorted differently each time you scroll a map". And this "differently" need to be calculated runtime.

So, curved edge projection is no better then ortogonal and as difficult to implement as spherical (or maybe more difficult - planar projection of spherical object is a standart math procedure).

[Tiktaalik]

I know this is an old topic thread so I apologise, but I'd like to say I'd have much rather gotten zenonauts with a curved projection and no scrolling than a retangular projection in which the world truly is a cylinder. Any way, the zoom fuction makes scrolling basically redundant. You could have that oval projection with craft poping off one side of the map and appearing on the other side like pacman. And the maths is pretty simple determining the warp of circles youd use to represent radar coverage.

You would at least feel like the planet was round, which I think is important. I mean it really bothers me that greenland looks almost as big as the whole african continent when it's like a 14th the size in reality.

If I could program, this is the mod I'd most like to make. A geoscape fix.

Edited June 14, 2014 by Tiktaalik