Pistol & shield.

[Elydo]

Depends on the output of the lasers. Sustained beams would melt through targets, much like the Airborne Tactical High Energy Laser (As seen in this video:

)

Current pulse lasers on the other hand vapourise the surface of the target and create plasma microexplosions leading to pitting and erosion of the target. Good for blinding the viewports of armoured vehicles. Higher power versions could theoretically have the same effect as a low energy 'plasma' weapon because it would be a very similar effect-on-target, yeah. Everything pretty much boils down to energy transfer. Even a projectile is a directed energy weapon from a certain point of view, heh.

[StellarRat]

Yes, as projectile speed increases the effects begin to resemble a pure energy hit. Lots of transfer in a short amount of time. I would imagine the Xenonauts would be using pulse lasers as anything else would be much more difficult to use effectively. A soldier doesn't want to have to hold/track a weapon on the target.

Edited September 4, 2013 by StellarRat

[Elydo]

They certainly seem to, or at least that's my rationalisation for a laser 'bolt' being the visual. Ideally I'd have preferred a visible beam painting the target, then a brighter pulse, but I'm really not going to bitch about that.

[Mordobb]

The shield itself does not provide full coverage however, even from the front, and the potential exists for any hit to be severe even to an extremity.

I wonder if people have ever seen a tactical shield in their life, the kind the xenonauts use, or should use. Those aren t medieval round shields people.

Those are full body shields, they cover 90% of the operator body when moving, 100% even when shooting on more modern shield, 98% on non prepared (old shields) to shoot. I ve been enought near them and see them used up close recently.

The guy behind get the same protection, maybe a little less shooting because part of his head pop up, lets say 90%, assuming both are trained.

Resuming the affair:

1) Kneeled soldier with shield should get 100% protection from direct front and laterally adjacent tiles period (and number of adjacent tiles should grow over distance). This unless shield operator is able to lick the alien.

2) ONLY reaction fire could be an exeption, if shield operator is moving or shooting at the alien.

Right now i m a bit miffed because:

Actually i m on the hotfix build and i ve hit a 8 hit VS 1 blocked shot with the shield, all straight front shot from alien pistols.

I am really wondering if this build has something inverted, like shield protecting only 20% of the time. This rate is simply too hight for the 80% of blocking to be working.

I m not even counting the slighly lateral shots, they were few 3 at all but hit 100% of the time.

[Elydo]

Depends what type of shield is under discussion. Some riot police do indeed use round shields these days, though I understand that's not what is being considered here.

The type of shield in xenonauts, and remember that we're 30 years in the past here, seems to leave the foot above the ankle, the very top of the head and an amount of the upper arm-to-shoulder exposed when moving, perhaps slightly less when standing still. When crouched it should really cover far more, but I don't know if that is an enabled mechanic in-game. To use another medieval comparison, ballistic shields of this type are smaller than a Tower Shield, probably about the same size as a scutum. If tower shield isn't too imprecise a definition.

Edited September 4, 2013 by Elydo

[Mordobb]

Depends what type of shield is under discussion. Some riot police do indeed use round shields these days, though I understand that's not what is being considered here.

The type of shield in xenonauts, and remember that we're 30 years in the past here, seems to leave the foot above the ankle, the very top of the head and an amount of the upper arm-to-shoulder exposed when moving, perhaps slightly less when standing still. When crouched it should really cover far more, but I don't know if that is an enabled mechanic in-game. To use another medieval comparison, ballistic shields of this type are smaller than a Tower Shield, probably about the same size as a scutum. If tower shield isn't too imprecise a definition.

There s no question there xenonauts shields are rectangular.

But thats not your point. The shields used today are exactly the same since the 60s material may have changes, training too.

But someone nearly enought trained is able to move without any part of his body being exposed.

And this since ROME was an empire. The diference is the fact that ROMAN shield didn t have a ballistic glass so the wielder could see whats happening in front of him.

Edited September 5, 2013 by Mordobb

[Elydo]

Shit, I should have said below the ankle. Proofing fail.

I have not training with ballistic shields so I've about reached the limited of my informed knowledge. We have a few milspec guys around though, I'd by no means want to step on their toes. At the very least though, for gameplay balance crouching should give full coverage for a frontal arc (I would think) whilst standing/moving should give majority coverage, but below 100%. I'd question above 90% or below 80%.

If 100% coverage was to be implemented whilst standing, there would need to be a tradeoff, either in terms of weight (which is likely to change anyway) or slower movement speed, which would translate as a tu penalty.

[Mordobb]

Shit, I should have said below the ankle. Proofing fail.

I have not training with ballistic shields so I've about reached the limited of my informed knowledge. We have a few milspec guys around though, I'd by no means want to step on their toes. At the very least though, for gameplay balance crouching should give full coverage for a frontal arc (I would think) whilst standing/moving should give majority coverage, but below 100%. I'd question above 90% or below 80%.

If 100% coverage was to be implemented whilst standing, there would need to be a tradeoff, either in terms of weight (which is likely to change anyway) or slower movement speed, which would translate as a tu penalty.

Exactly...

There could even have 2 kind of shield.

One weaker allowing one arm bearing and shooting with the other, leaving the bearer quite more exposed during movement, shooting and even kneeling, anyone can use, give penalty to one handed shooting device but no penalty to stun baton.

One heavyer, more resistant, 2 handed not allowing anything but carying it, with more TU penalties, minimum strenght to operate lets say 58.

This could bring a new tactical decision into factor and since the system is 90% there i would say, would cost much investment, maybe a slight recolloring to black to grey/steel to diferenciate the shields.

/

[EchoFourDelta]

Your head's and arms really aren't exposed when moving with one of these things, and once you kneel, nothing's hitting you directly from the front; about the only vulnerability you have is exposed feet while you're moving, since you (obviously) have to keep it off the ground while you're traveling.

And yes, Mordobb, shields have changed considerably in style, variation, role, implementation, and material. There are as many different sizes and configuration of ballistic shield as there are roles for them.

[Mordobb]

Your head's and arms really aren't exposed when moving with one of these things, and once you kneel, nothing's hitting you directly from the front; about the only vulnerability you have is exposed feet while you're moving, since you (obviously) have to keep it off the ground while you're traveling.

And yes, Mordobb, shields have changed considerably in style, variation, role, implementation, and material. There are as many different sizes and configuration of ballistic shield as there are roles for them.

Well i haven t seen them yet. Not in security expo, not in military expo, not on service in my country. but if you live in USA your probably see a LOT more equipment than i see here.

Ballistic shields used here are basicly what we see in xenonauts, square, black with a ballistic window, some with pistol rest some not, all trying to give bearer max protection, some situation awareness and ease of use.

Non ballistic riot shield don t enter this discussion, in that field yeah things got wild, i dont know why but local police here prefer to use ballistic shield agaisnt riots...i guess risk mitigation is still higher than ease of use and versatility around here

[EchoFourDelta]

The ones you see riot cops use are basically a thin layer of polycarb treated so that it won't shatter if hit with a rock or a bottle or something people might chuck at them; some of them can stop very low-energy pistol rounds, or birdshot/buckshot, but that's on the higher end of things, and they're a bit thicker.

The sort we see depicted in-game are quite easily able to be carried by an adult in good shape with some degree of upper body strength, and are generally rated to stop high-energy pistol rounds (note, these are the same rounds fired from carbines firing pistol rounds and submachine guns) and shotgun blasts; they're generally not sturdy enough to stand up to rifle fire, because of how heavy and thick the material needs to be to catch it; you have to remember that it's generally impractical to try and protect much more of human body from rifle fire aside from to torso due to the sheer weight of the plates you need to stop it. Expanding this to an area of a number of square feet leaves you with something that's just unbelievably heavy.

The larger, much heavier ones that can actually stand up to some considerable degree of rifle fire often come on rollers so that the troops can actually move them around, with wingnuts and hardpoints for height adjustment.

[Mordobb]

The ones you see riot cops use are basically a thin layer of polycarb treated so that it won't shatter if hit with a rock or a bottle or something people might chuck at them; some of them can stop very low-energy pistol rounds, or birdshot/buckshot, but that's on the higher end of things, and they're a bit thicker.

The sort we see depicted in-game are quite easily able to be carried by an adult in good shape with some degree of upper body strength, and are generally rated to stop high-energy pistol rounds (note, these are the same rounds fired from carbines firing pistol rounds and submachine guns) and shotgun blasts; they're generally not sturdy enough to stand up to rifle fire, because of how heavy and thick the material needs to be to catch it; you have to remember that it's generally impractical to try and protect much more of human body from rifle fire aside from to torso due to the sheer weight of the plates you need to stop it. Expanding this to an area of a number of square feet leaves you with something that's just unbelievably heavy.

The larger, much heavier ones that can actually stand up to some considerable degree of rifle fire often come on rollers so that the troops can actually move them around, with wingnuts and hardpoints for height adjustment.

Not in my country, here the shield must be wielded 2 hands and are the kind to sustain few 7,62 shots, seen firetest on them. Wielder never poke up because he can t do shit but carry it, you have the men behind with rubber shotgun, tear gas grenade shooter, anti riot grenade ("moral effect") shooter. They usually walk a bit, stop, walk a bit stop.

I understand them, with the number of AK, AR15, FALs, G3, and others stuff you have in the drug dealer possession, you never know.

But i ve seen some lighters too... policemen had a bad idea to raise the shield while a molotov was arcing to him landed at his feet putting his boots on fire....Some use nighstick on the other hand just to have some fun...

Edited September 5, 2013 by Mordobb