Fire modes and Weapon slots: some thoughts

[a_beorning]

Disclaimer:

I know, some of my ideas cannot be implemented due game engine limits.

I know, some of my ideas are too late to embody - too many code to rewrite.

And finally, some of my ideas may contravene with developers concepts.

But if some of ideas will be useful - I will be glad.

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1. Fire modes.

Now there are: quick shot, normal shot, aimed shot. And, separated from them, burst fire mode.

Game concept of supression from shot, even missed, is great. But (IMHO) slightly underdone.

In reallife, difference between "covering" and "normal" is not not in weapon mode but in a goal shooter trying to achieve.

"Normal" fire: You see enemy (or at least assume where it is) and try to hit him. If you miss and suppres him, you failed: he crouches, take a cover, and your next shot will be more difficult to aim

"Covering" fire: You assume an area where enemy is and try to prevent him from moving anf shooting, so you give your comrades a possibility to move forward with much lesser risk.

How might it look in game?

Fire mode button switch fire modes, associated with normal fire on target: fast, standart, aimed, even burst. In all this modes you aim at a particular single target - enemy or, with shift, single title.

Separate from 'mode switch' is 'covering fire' button. You aim not a particular enemy but a sector!

Something like this (left soldier start covering fire, then right soldier run forward with stun buton):

Standart infantry field-tactic since XIX century: "1st squad - forward, 2nd squad - cover!"

Maybe "cover fire" button even switch sector's angle: wider with less chances to hit/suppress or narrower with more chances. Angle (=disperce cone) more-or-less equal to different modes of same weapon.

Covering fire is TU-eater and ammo-eater. Practically, you choose your weapon mode to make as many shots per turn as possible.

It cost all remaining TUs and not fixed number of bullets but [remaining TU]/[time per bullet of weapon's fastest mode].

Hit-or-miss and damage (for each bullet) and suppresion value for each enemy in (or near) fire cone calculated as for normal fire.

Of course, cover fire mode is not applicable for hand-to-hand weapon (stun baton) and one-shot weapon such as grenades and rocket launchers.

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2. Weapon slots.

2.1. one-handed weapon: baton, pistols, grenades, MedKit,...

Advantage of two weapons in two hands are versality (no need to open backpack and spend TU to do different tasks)

and effectively doubling of ammo clip size (in case of two pistols in two hands).

I suggest an option to select not one of pistols but both: "macedonian style shooting" from both hands simultaneously. TUs deducing as for for slower pistol, hits calculated separately, but accuracy is slightly lower and "aimed shot mode" is impossible.

For use pistol with one hand free I suggest slight accuracy bonus ("police shooting stance") and shorter reloading time (actually longer reloading when other hand is not free).

Of course, macedonian style is not applicable for non-firearms

2.2. Light two-hand weapon.

Normally, shotguns, carbines, ARs etc. are used with two hands. But it's absolutely possible to fire one-handedly - I checked it personally with AK-74 many years ago.

So - some auxillary weapon with shotguns and ARs is allowed, but with moderate accuracy penalty and no aimed shot.

When useful? UFO boarding: distance is short and you do not know is there a stun-able alien or not.

Simultaneous fire wiht AR/Shotgun and aux.pistol? Possible, but with heavy aim penalty (inability to use elbow for support AND troubles with distribution of attention)

It is reallife-possible to use two ARs simultaneously, but not for everybody due to strenght and constitution "pre-requisites". It's too hard for me (5'7", 120lbs), but I saw a Shrek-size sergeant of our marines did it - shredding dummy targets to flinders.

To allow or not? If yes, only for very strong soldiers, and with drastical aim penalty.

Why use? At least double suppress factor.

When sergeant make his demo, even I was slightly suppressed - and I was on his side of polygon, not with dummies

2.3. Heavy weapon

Both hands used. As it is now.

[GizmoGomez]

Sounds good to me. I like the cover-fire idea that you proposed; it would let soldiers suppress multiple side-by-side hostiles more efficiently by showing approximately where their shots would go (although of course they wouldn't stay within that cone, that's just the arc of barrel movement of the weapon. Or at least that's how I picture it.)

[a333]

Adding second weapon in existing weapon/armor combinations would produce 1014 new combinations, if i'm correct. ~140k new png files for animations.

That's a lot.

And even without visual rendering, what exclusive positive aspects are in double wielding which can't be reached via simpler methods?

[GizmoGomez]

Hmm... that is a lot of new files. Cool idea, though.

The two firing modes bit could still work, though. That's what I'd want the most out of these suggestions.

[a_beorning]

Adding second weapon in existing weapon/armor combinations would produce 1014 new combinations, if i'm correct.

What for?

Now you already can equip 2 pistols (but not use simultaneously), and animation is same as with one pistol.

When using AR/Shotgun with pistol, animation is for AR/Shotgun (something like "amimation is determined by biggest weapon, or by right-hand when sizes are equal")

Only separate animation is needed for 2ARs, and I am ready to sacrifice this variant

what exclusive positive aspects are in double wielding which can't be reached via simpler methods?

Pair of pistols (without dual fire): already is. More shots between reloads.

Pair of pistols (with dual fire allowed): short TU and good reaction bonus as single pistol, damage as rifle (on light-armored targets), more separate targets per round than shotgun.

Pistol and AR (without dual fire): flexibility. AR's decent range and firepower, pistol's ability to react and possibility for last killing shot when TUs nearly end.

Pistol and AR (with dual fire allowed): nearly machinegun's volume of fire at close quarters.

If "cover fire mode" will be realized too, any dual fire combination increase effectiveness of suppressing fire.

Yes, in any single case you can find a single weapon better than pair - MG for cover and density, AR for mid-range armored targets, shotgun for close combat, pistol for quickshots.

But you cannot carry all MG+AR+SG+MedKit+grenades+ammo, your bag it is not THAT big.

And opening your bag to get a weapon you need means you spent TUs on re-equip rather then on shots.

So, positive aspect of duals is flexibility. More flexibility than AR have. At price, of course.

I will never equip ALL squad with duals

Edited March 28, 2013 by a_beorning

[Gauddlike]

Other than allowing all AP to be used in a single burst I don't really see how the cover fire suggestion differs significantly from the current implementation of burst fire and suppression.

Only changes I picked up on were the cone area rather than a circle for suppression and the requirement to use all remaining AP when firing.

How would you see the two modes being used without overlapping too much?

I am not a big fan of dual wielding weapons.

I would prefer to have the roles for the existing weapons working properly and any gaps filled by new weapons.

For example your dual wield pistols would appear to be close to the same role that would be filled by the carbine in later tiers.

Yes, in any single case you can find a single weapon better than pair - MG for cover and density, AR for mid-range armored targets, shotgun for close combat, pistol for quickshots.

But you cannot carry all MG+AR+SG+MedKit+grenades+ammo, your bag it is not THAT big.

And opening your bag to get a weapon you need means you spent TUs on re-equip rather then on shots.

So, positive aspect of duals is flexibility. More flexibility than AR have. At price, of course.

I will never equip ALL squad with duals

That would be a compelling argument if you only had a single squad member who needed to be able to deal with every eventuality on his own.

Your squad can carry a wide selection of weapons however which means you would always have people available to deal with a threat if you have planned accordingly.

Many military units equip their members with varied equipment loadouts for this reason.

I don't know of any that take the dual wield/ carry one of each weapon route but they may be out there as well.

[erutan]

I think it could be fun to have dual wield pistols to be able to fire at once (though even that isn't very realistic), but afaik no serious organization dual weilds guns that are meant to be two handed. The slowness in bringing a weapon to bear + stabilizing would seem to be a major disadvantage in combat.

[thothkins]

On 2, had it been in the game, weighed down with the requisite penalties, I wouldn't have moaned. I had a last man standing situation yesterday, where dual weapons would at least have enabled him to go out in a blaze of glory. At pre set it falls in the caveats that the OP mentioned.

1 is interesting, expanding out the current suppression fire into more genuine area suppression. Looking at the image, I'd have even suggested having the solider move with the firing of all his TU's to provide a much wider arc, differentiating it further from the targeted fire, that brings suppression as a side effect.