V26.0 - why is there only one map??

[Emily_F]

So, I have to admit I'm getting bored of the game now because there is only ONE map for anything over a medium UFO.  The number of maps in the game in general seems to be getting smaller too- - is there some issue with the biome/map selection?  Either way, I think there needs to be way more time dedicated to variating the maps because I often go to UFO missions where I play exactly the same mission back to back, with maybe some different aliens if I'm lucky.  Unless this is a bug, I think this is something that needs to be urgently addressed before you consider early release; far more urgently than adding any extra game features etc. 

auto_strategy_before_combat-186.json output.log

Edited February 18, 2023 by Emily_F

[Emily_F]

In addition, in this mission in the above attached save, I can see through the side of the UFO (it isn't damaged as far as I can see) though I can't get an aim.

[Alienkiller]

Emily, you have right, that some Maps need an overwork.

From what I have seen is, that the Biome-Map you show isn´t finished with the new Overwork yet. The Devs announced several times, that they are overworking the Maps Step by Step with special Differiations where possible and bring in more Variation.

Edited February 20, 2023 by Alienkiller

[Emily_F]

21 minutes ago, Alienkiller said:

Emily, you have right, that some Maps need an overwork.

From what I have seen is, that the Biome-Map you show isn´t finished with the new Overwork yet. The Devs announced several times, that they are overworking the Maps Step by Step with special Differiations where possible and bring in more Variation.

There only seems to be one biome.  I noted after writing the OP that there are some superficial differences on this map (sometimes furniture or crates in different places)  but it is essentially the same map.  Realistically, there needs to be a whole load of completely different maps for both the UFO missions and terror maps (which are also the same) otherwise people will get bored.  I know the devs mentioned it ages ago, but I don't recall seeing many new maps since.  

[Chris]

On 2/18/2023 at 10:59 AM, Emily_F said:

So, I have to admit I'm getting bored of the game now because there is only ONE map for anything over a medium UFO.  The number of maps in the game in general seems to be getting smaller too- - is there some issue with the biome/map selection?  Either way, I think there needs to be way more time dedicated to variating the maps because I often go to UFO missions where I play exactly the same mission back to back, with maybe some different aliens if I'm lucky.  Unless this is a bug, I think this is something that needs to be urgently addressed before you consider early release; far more urgently than adding any extra game features etc. 

auto_strategy_before_combat-186.json 909.89 kB · 0 downloads output.log 2.7 MB · 0 downloads

Yeah, there's only one map for the Harvester and the Battleship. It's just a question of whether we're going to be including the entire campaign in the initial Early Access build or content gating it halfway through - if we release the whole thing then I'll get these maps added ASAP, otherwise I'll be concentrating on making sure the first half of the game is as polished as possible (as making even 2 maps per biome is ~14 maps and represents quite a bit of work).

Thanks for making sure the issue is on our radar while we make the decision though!

[Emily_F]

37 minutes ago, Chris said:

Yeah, there's only one map for the Harvester and the Battleship. It's just a question of whether we're going to be including the entire campaign in the initial Early Access build or content gating it halfway through - if we release the whole thing then I'll get these maps added ASAP, otherwise I'll be concentrating on making sure the first half of the game is as polished as possible (as making even 2 maps per biome is ~14 maps and represents quite a bit of work).

Thanks for making sure the issue is on our radar while we make the decision though!

This may be a dumb question but Alienkiller and I have been discussing via DM about how the maps are made; I seem to recall ages ago you saying that each map had to be coded manually from scratch.  Is that still the case?  I wondered if it would have been easier to have coded a map editor to semi-automate the process (despite owning a veterinary and medical software company, I am not a coder so I have no idea if that is even possible or how hard it would be!  It just seemed to me that if you wanted to generate lots of maps and biomes, that would have been a logical step).  

[Chris]

2 hours ago, Emily_F said:

This may be a dumb question but Alienkiller and I have been discussing via DM about how the maps are made; I seem to recall ages ago you saying that each map had to be coded manually from scratch.  Is that still the case?  I wondered if it would have been easier to have coded a map editor to semi-automate the process (despite owning a veterinary and medical software company, I am not a coder so I have no idea if that is even possible or how hard it would be!  It just seemed to me that if you wanted to generate lots of maps and biomes, that would have been a logical step).  

It's not generally something you'd do by code. However, you can make maps that support a larger degree of randomisation by having larger areas of the map that are switched in and out for variants - basically just think of most maps as a collection of different "slots" where something of a particular size can go. In the current maps the slots are quite small (roughly the size of a building), and so a building might vary a little in shape or interior layout at the moment.

But you could make the slots much larger and swap out entire sections of the map if you wanted (each "slot" variant would still need to be made by hand, but it could be reused across multiple maps). The map editor already fully supports this.

The reason we don't do this is that it ends up looking a bit wrong, because the maps lack the internal logic that real places have. The same thing was possible in X1 but the only maps that made it work were the wilderness maps because having essentially randomly placed trees and cliff areas etc feels more realistic than just randomly placing buildings in a town. There's a logic to human spaces that is hard to capture via random generation. Hopefully some mappers will try once we release the mod tools though.