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Grimbach

Congratulations! You've defeated UOO-1. Now you're in the midgame.

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I'm a fan of long campaigns, and one of the features - or rather quirks of design - I enjoyed about X1 was the pseudo-infinite nature of the invasion. So long as you maintained control of the skies, you could play as many rounds of UFO: Breach & Clear as you wanted to. Indeed, that's often what I did, building a roster of dozens of elite soldiers with Sentinel armor and Mag weapons before I even entertained the notion of starting operation Endgame.

Because of this I'm cautiously optimistic of the ticking-clock added by the Alien weapons platform. Thematically it does a very good job driving home the aliens superiority, and the added time pressure should prevent a soft-lock situation where you don't have the capability to engage or capture any of the UFOs spawning in later months. However, as things stand now (I understand that we're in very early development, and that everything is subject to change) it feels like the game is running on a set schedule, without much room to play longer if you wish. Research the tech tree on time to stay ahead of panic, then launch the endgame seems like it will be the only strategy possible.

Thus, I propose this; At some point generally in the middle of the game, UOO-1 is removed. Perhaps Dr Snidely had you test the tactical viability of the aliens jumpdrive by inserting an alenium-augmented Nuke into UOO-1. Perhaps you manage to board and capture the device, again as humanities first foray into using the jumpdrive. Whatever way it's implemented, there is no longer a hard time till extinction. The invasion then changes and escalates, but in a way that the player can fight off indefinitely.

You might ask why the aliens would let go of such an insurmountable advantage, but I remind you that a key thematic point of X1 was that the Aliens were evaluating us for assimilation, not attempting our extermination. Indeed, if they wanted us dead they could simply tow some large asteroids into an earth-crossing orbit and wait.

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Nope, defenetivly not. You can´t destroy UOO-1 from Outside. The technological Advantage from the Aliens are more then we can could catch up. We can get some Improvements etc. to our Technology, but never oversize the Aliens in that.

The Devs announced that there are some alternatives in Game-Ending. The one we already know is following:

- You have to fight the Alien-Master (like in X1) to win that War.

The others are still top Secret and we Beta-Testers don´t know what they will be, because the Game is fully in Development. We can test atm to the Mid-Game-Status for doing Bugfixing and with Beta 15 as secondary assignemtn Ballance-Work.

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On 11/18/2020 at 6:01 PM, Grimbach said:

I'm a fan of long campaigns, and one of the features - or rather quirks of design - I enjoyed about X1 was the pseudo-infinite nature of the invasion. So long as you maintained control of the skies, you could play as many rounds of UFO: Breach & Clear as you wanted to. Indeed, that's often what I did, building a roster of dozens of elite soldiers with Sentinel armor and Mag weapons before I even entertained the notion of starting operation Endgame.

Because of this I'm cautiously optimistic of the ticking-clock added by the Alien weapons platform. Thematically it does a very good job driving home the aliens superiority, and the added time pressure should prevent a soft-lock situation where you don't have the capability to engage or capture any of the UFOs spawning in later months. However, as things stand now (I understand that we're in very early development, and that everything is subject to change) it feels like the game is running on a set schedule, without much room to play longer if you wish. Research the tech tree on time to stay ahead of panic, then launch the endgame seems like it will be the only strategy possible.

Thus, I propose this; At some point generally in the middle of the game, UOO-1 is removed. Perhaps Dr Snidely had you test the tactical viability of the aliens jumpdrive by inserting an alenium-augmented Nuke into UOO-1. Perhaps you manage to board and capture the device, again as humanities first foray into using the jumpdrive. Whatever way it's implemented, there is no longer a hard time till extinction. The invasion then changes and escalates, but in a way that the player can fight off indefinitely.

You might ask why the aliens would let go of such an insurmountable advantage, but I remind you that a key thematic point of X1 was that the Aliens were evaluating us for assimilation, not attempting our extermination. Indeed, if they wanted us dead they could simply tow some large asteroids into an earth-crossing orbit and wait.

It's a tough one - I do understand the desire to be able to play forever if you want, but it does somewhat remove the tension from the strategy layer. To be honest it's something we can discuss and tweak during Early Access, because it only takes about ten minutes to update the amount of damage inflicted by UOO-1 to be whatever I want, so this is purely a question of design philosophy. I think that would be best discussed when the campaign is fully playable from start to end.

In any case, even if we end up disagreeing, it'd be something that is easy to mod.

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I will be honest, I usualy dislike long games. 20 to 30 hours is top for me if the game loop is the same without to much change. I would probably do multiples runs over time, but might give up if it's to "samey". What keep me going for a run longer than that would be new history bits and game mechanics to serve them along the way. In an Anno game there is always something to optimise (and in Anno 1800, a new production chain somewhere, a new gimick, mechanic, even some history bits), in an RPG like Pillars or  hell, even Skyrim, always that quest with a fun character or book, or a new tidbit about the world. Such game can keep me on them for hundred of hours. But the same gameplay loops with no breaks, with the same guns, with no new mechanics along the way and no new history to fit it ? Hell no !

To me, adding that much history content sound like a DLC more than something that can be changed where the beta is at. :confused:

Altough... that might leave the door open for a "counter attack" DLC. Bring the fight to the alien fleet or something. Try to recruit alien defectors ? I don't know. The grand tech and history wizard Chris will tell. :)

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@Comte Pseudonyme:

20 to 30 Hours for a full Game like that is to low. And Xenonauts 2 give exactly everything you say (Special Missions, Base Defences, Base Attacks, many Micromanagement for your Soldiers / Vehicles/ Bases as well as many more like R & D, Outposts etc.). Some Specials aren´t implemented yet, but will and have to be before the Early Access. And after they running you won´t know longer what to make first.

The second thing is, that you need a full storyline in the Game (like in the old X-Com-Series, the UFO ET-Series, new XCOM-Series) first before you can think of an DLC. Look at the new Panzer Corps Game, then you see what I mean. The Devs there made it fully correctly as well as the Devs from Paradox which continually upgrade the Games.

The Devs here from Goldhawk go an similar way and that from beginning on with the Beta. How good the Game will be in the Early Access State we see then. But it will be longer than 20 to 30 Hours of Playtime in the Base-Version.

My playtime with the newest Betas are since we could test the Game (excluding the Hotfixes which didn´t run) is atm at 376 Hours. And I never played longer than to first Laser-Tech, upgraded Cevlar and other small upgrades for my People and the World-Wide Military, because then the next Version comes out. I read all Archive-Texts, the Info-Things with the Tooltip etc. to look for Bugs etc. there, because they are cruical for you and the Gouvernments.

Edited by Alienkiller

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On 11/20/2020 at 5:09 AM, Chris said:

In any case, even if we end up disagreeing, it'd be something that is easy to mod.

Now this is a good point. If the script that controls the campaign is sufficiently exposed and documented I could take a crack at modding in my own longwar campaign. For that matter, could you not include an example campaign mod that does nothing more than present ever-increasing difficulties of ships? If it's as simple as I think it is (which it could very well not be, depending on how other assets are tied into campaign progression) it wouldn't cost more than a couple person-days of dev time.

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