Combat mechanics

[Emily_F]

One feature I am really disappointed about is the fact that there is no "prone position" which, IRL, gives you a) a lot more protection from direct fire as you are a presenting a smaller target, b) makes you more difficult to spot, c) gives you much greater accuracy with rifles and machine guns and d) gives better conditions for giving covering fire.  Not acknowledging this in the gameplay really spoils the tactics side of things; having your team crawling on their belt-buckles means they'll move much slower but will be able to move into fire positions without being seen and/or much less likely to get hit. It was one of the good things about XCom Apocalypse (which was an ugly looking game, but had great combat mechanics). I really hope the devs rethink their design here, as I think the "dumbing down" of the combat mechanics will really negatively affect the game. 

[Chris]

49 minutes ago, Emily_F said:

One feature I am really disappointed about is the fact that there is no "prone position" which, IRL, gives you a) a lot more protection from direct fire as you are a presenting a smaller target, b) makes you more difficult to spot, c) gives you much greater accuracy with rifles and machine guns and d) gives better conditions for giving covering fire.  Not acknowledging this in the gameplay really spoils the tactics side of things; having your team crawling on their belt-buckles means they'll move much slower but will be able to move into fire positions without being seen and/or much less likely to get hit. It was one of the good things about XCom Apocalypse (which was an ugly looking game, but had great combat mechanics). I really hope the devs rethink their design here, as I think the "dumbing down" of the combat mechanics will really negatively affect the game. 

Hmm, I'm not sure it counts as "dumbing down" to not implement a feature that was never in the original X-Com game that this franchise is explicitly billed as a spiritual successor to. Lack of prone never stopped UFO: Enemy Unknown from becoming an incredibly well-regarded genre classic.

The franchise that does include these mechanics is Jagged Alliance, but that has a subtly different focus to X-Com - it's about people fighting other people, and explores that in a great deal of detail. Thing is, a lot of that extra detail goes out the window when five missions into the game you're shooting space lizards with your new laser guns, and prone isn't necessarily going to add anything to our game in the same way as it makes JA2 (or apparently Apocalypse, which I must admit I've not played much of) a much richer experience. 

[Emily_F]

Thanks for the reply, Chris. I truly loved the last game, and still play it HEAPS but I always felt it would be better with a prone position (that gives associated extra bonuses in exchange for TUs). It at least gave you bonuses for crouching which, if I'm correct, have now been removed. Even with the intermediate tech you develop, you're still at a disadvantage against the lizards (or, worse, the giant bugs). If you have the option of being "sneaky-beaky" vs "gung-ho", it gives you more options for tactics with your various squad-members' abilities. One of the downfalls for the previous games was that the missions could get a bit repetitive. Having to think ahead and plan your missions, and choose your squad and tactics based on their strengths and weaknesses (which you had to do in the previous game, but it was still pretty basic and confined to who could carry the most vs shoot the straightest) will add so much more to the game.   I haven't played Jagged Alliance - I will give it a go. 

[Chris]

21 minutes ago, Emily_F said:

Thanks for the reply, Chris. I truly loved the last game, and still play it HEAPS but I always felt it would be better with a prone position (that gives associated extra bonuses in exchange for TUs). It at least gave you bonuses for crouching which, if I'm correct, have now been removed. Even with the intermediate tech you develop, you're still at a disadvantage against the lizards (or, worse, the giant bugs). If you have the option of being "sneaky-beaky" vs "gung-ho", it gives you more options for tactics with your various squad-members' abilities. One of the downfalls for the previous games was that the missions could get a bit repetitive. Having to think ahead and plan your missions, and choose your squad and tactics based on their strengths and weaknesses (which you had to do in the previous game, but it was still pretty basic and confined to who could carry the most vs shoot the straightest) will add so much more to the game.   I haven't played Jagged Alliance - I will give it a go. 

Nah, crouching is still in Xenonauts 2 but it just gives defensive bonuses right now because it was a bit too good in the first game. I understand your concerns about missions in X1 being repetitive (and you're right) but we're adding other systems that will hopefully address the problem in other ways.

If you're going to play a Jagged Alliance game, make sure you pick up Jagged Alliance 2 - it's basically still the gold standard for a tactical combat simulator. There's been a number of sequels since but a lot of them were pretty bad, so make sure you get the right one!

[Pancaek]

Jagged Alliance 2 is actually on for cheap right now if you're going to pick it up https://www.gog.com/game/jagged_alliance_2

[Ninothree]

@Pancaek That purchase comes with a 56 page manual. You know that the game is at least a decade old when it is accompanied with a short encyclopedia. Saying that, I looked up the Phoenix Point website recently, it seems that game lore novellas are coming into style.

[Casaubon]

"Problem" with prone in JA2 is that you prone all the time, similar to X1 making you crouch all the time. It should have some disadvantage maybe such as additional TU cost for handling the inventory when crouched, or maybe even a reduced viewcone or sight range if behind certain cover.