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Reactorcore

@X:CE devs - Ability to substitute final mission with a landed ufo mission?

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I was wondering if it could be possible to tweak the hardcoding of the game, so that instead of loading Operation Endgame mission, the game would instead load a landed UFO mission, that upon completing would trigger a game victory?

Since the scripting in the default final mission is apparently tricky, I figured if a simple substitute to a regular landed battleship ufo would be possible to hack instead?
Landed UFOs are randomized, can be customized how many aliens they have and which aliens they will contain, so a custom instance of such a mission could make for a very awesome final mission, instead of the usual lame final mission with contrived triggers.

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Well, the final mission's scripts are working as they should in X:CE. Escape pods, Reapers, all of that.

Basically everything about the final mission is hardcoded though, changing something there would be a pain in the arse.

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Not even a simple switcharoo would be easy?

Like this:

if "Press Operation Endgame button" then
	*Load any groundcombat mission*
	if success then
		Win game
	if fail
		Lose game
end

Is this too complicated to achieve among the hardcoded stuff too?

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Yeah, just exchanging it for a normal ground missions would be doable, though not as convenient as you'd imagine. The final mission uses its own tileset and there's logic spread around several places that depends specifically on that tileset, some of which would be necessary for a different final mission, and some not.

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Tell us more.

As i need to ultimately change the last mission every bit which might be modable is helpful.

You said it uses its own tileset - thats important to know. Whats the directory for it ? If i put the tiles into the directory cant i change the whole map ?

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Nothing is moddable about the final mission, but if you wanted to do something specific, then things could be changed. You can see that there's tiles/finalmission, and maps/finalmission. So of course if you replace something in maps/finalmission, those changes should apply. But then probably the scripts that spawn the Reapers will break and all kinds of bad things would happen.

Now if you make one specific new map that you want to use as the final mission, no new scripts but rather a win/lose condition, then probably some kind of brutal cut-and-slash approach in X:CE could make that possible.

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4 minutes ago, Solver said:

Nothing is moddable about the final mission,

Not even if i add some tileset for it in the map editor ? I can build a map around the finalmission map. Cut some entrances here and there and make new ones ?

 

I havent tried anything about this yet but my approach would be:

 

1. Editing the map.

As far as i use the same tilesets and add the ones i use additionnaly there shouldnt be a problem, right ? Moving around tilesets shouldnt break anything either, or ?

2. Edit the levelsetup_finalmission.xml.

Deleting is a no go but nothing speaks against changing the kind of enemy spawned for the current ones, right ? And i could also add some new enemies although their spawn points may be random ? Or they wont spawn at all ?

 

and thats it, no ?

So yes, the current finalmission is something very limited and every bit of help for a custom layout and spawn number of enemies would be appreciated.

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I have no idea, not that familiar with the workings of tilesets and maps. I guess you could manage to add some enemies to the final mission, or to add some rooms to the map. You are still going to need some Reaper spawn points and they will keep spawning there. Try some of that, tell us what works :)

If you do create a particularly cool, entirely new, map to be used as a final mission I'd probably be interested in hooking that up to the game.

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End game will be still a mission, even you make more rooms, more aliens, more things. This is destiny of all Xcoms.. To be honest, i think the best ending sequence was at Xcom 3 Apocalypse, which you open the game to alien dimension and start to fight there. The only X-Com which you defend and attack same time. A total game. If they can finish openApocalypse project, i will totally interested in that.

For a good ending we need more special missions.. maybe a chain of mission. But still missions.. anyway.. there is no map maker alive sadly.

But i interested by "spawm" point idea. I would like to able to add "spawning some aliens 1 or 2 times per mission like alien support".. Fraxis done this good..  it makes more alive battlefield.. 

@Solver can we use this spawn code at another maps? is there a script which we can name what we want to have spawned as alien unit and when? (spawn-caesan_guard-5. turn, like)..

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No, that's a very special case for a final mission. But you'll be able to do some cool stuff with the zombies instead. More shortly.

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If hypothetically X:CE gave you the ability to use your own mission, then yes, all the default scripting would be gone. So this is in the realm of possibility.

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Could be any map, but it should be a map that doesn't get used for anything else normally. Then I would probably make it so that you write the path to that map in gameconfig and it replaces the final mission, at least that's my initial idea.

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Yes, thats exactly what I'd propose! :D

Oh man, if that could be done, then that custom map could have anything put in it. Sure, it would be just a regular copy-pasted landed ufo map, but it could have its own custom list of 30-80 aliens (including any super-tough modded ones) for an epic, satisfying all-out last battle. It would also be easy to come up with an alternative lore and research projects that would lead up to this mission to truly make it feel special. And all this could be done in a very low cost way using a lot of the functionality in X:CE that is already there! I'm excited. :o

Edited by Reactorcore

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8 minutes ago, Reactorcore said:

And all this could be done in a very low cost way using a lot of the functionality in X:CE that is already there! I'm excited. :o

Low cost? I'll send you the bill :p 

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Map making is not hard for map makers.. but sadly i hate the map making editor.. i still can't use it and makes me mad.. i think i want something like heroes of might and magic 3 style editor which just choose and add..

If we got a map maker, i would order some 3D ufo models of dreadnought and mothership classes..  but as i said, every map maker left... every one.. we need a heroic map maker maniac for xenonauts and our team.. 

Final mission script is not so special but still nice to have it. That map could be edited and new aliens could be used.. Even now, adding new aliens won't be a problem i think.. I never tried..

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Compared to what Drages is asking, it is the most low cost option. :rolleyes:

Thought I guess I should have used the word "most convinient" instead of "low cost". I do recognize the tremendous effort that goes into delving into the messy source of xenonauts, so I am grateful for the all the effort you've already done for us modders to be able to revitalize the game with new mods and expansions. I do feel guilty for asking you for more features, so I tried my best to propose this one to be as easy, low cost, most convinient as one could be possible, yet still have the biggest impact on the modding community.

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1 hour ago, Reactorcore said:

Compared to what Drages is asking, it is the most low cost option. :rolleyes:

Thought I guess I should have used the word "most convinient" instead of "low cost". I do recognize the tremendous effort that goes into delving into the messy source of xenonauts, so I am grateful for the all the effort you've already done for us modders to be able to revitalize the game with new mods and expansions. I do feel guilty for asking you for more features, so I tried my best to propose this one to be as easy, low cost, most convinient as one could be possible, yet still have the biggest impact on the modding community.

I don't to have that mission with an UFO.. why? 

We got already tons of battleship mission played and... yu know, its like something repeating what you do.. I would totally want a new map for an end game.. and this endgame gives it.. you can update that map with same tile set.. make it huge.. but not another ufo..

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If the other option is not even possible or far too much for Solver to handle, then its not really even an option, is it?

If it turns out impossible to do your request, Drages, what will you do? What *can* you do? :(

Xenonauts source code is already a nightmare to work with, so something of an entire new tool, let alone making tweaks to scripting of the final mission is already very super difficult task. Not to mention it has to be done so that the vanilla game does not break. What I offer is a shortcut that allows customization of the final mission with as less effort as possible.

Since the final mission is about killing the high praetor, substituting it with a regular battleship ufo is no different. Its actually even better, as you can put all those crazy new alien types you've added to X-Division.

Edited by Reactorcore

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1. It's a map.. and as i said a map needs a map maker. It's heavy scripted yes but without changing the main logic and Solvers help, you can create a huge base with not 2 but 4 reactors or another items to destroy. Even if scripts can able to make door "open", Solver can make a chain which you need to make some things one by one. Destroy panel, destroy reactor, destroy engine room blabla.. You can have a huge map. Current end game map made in some hours.. its so basic as i can see, it's sadly, cheap...

2. As that boss guys stays there, i can put 2 walkerultWGsmall.png those guys with him or in front of him.. I can fill all the map with out terror units. I can make it a hell. Solver can change the spawn script, so we can use it at the beginning of the mission so you can have non-stop enemies incoming..

BUT still, someone creative should make a new, complex map first. The map is so little and open which does not much sense even we fill it with enemies.

 

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I cannot change the scripting like that. Maps themselves have no associated scripts in Xenonauts, unfortunately. So it uses some scary hacking to tie the special scripts to that final mission tileset. So since there's no scripting for maps, I cannot really do most of that.

Of course in principle there's more that is possible, new features could be implemented in the mapping system. Such as a special spawn point type that spawns enemies continuously. I have pretty much never touched the submap editor, don't particularly understand it, but this should be possible. Whether I'd want to do that work is something of a separate issue.

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Thank you Solver, so basically the answer is a no for Drages' request.

@Drages, I noticed there was a certain feeling of confidence in your posts on the forums, giving an impression to me that your plans were possible and that Solver could absolutely do them. I feel you might want to step back for a second to make sure your communication with Solver on whatever ideas you were asking from him are 100% clear. No use in relying on features and options that do are not even feasible. : /

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10 minutes ago, Reactorcore said:

@Drages, I noticed there was a certain feeling of confidence in your posts on the forums, giving an impression to me that your plans were possible and that Solver could absolutely do them. I feel you might want to step back for a second to make sure your communication with Solver on whatever ideas you were asking from him are 100% clear. No use in relying on features and options that do are not even feasible. : /

We are making brainstorming here. I did not privately with solver about endgame. I give my ideas too. I thought that scripts could be repeated but Solver said it's a complex hack. If i were %100 clear about something, we would not do this conversation. We both put our ideas here and solver said possibilities. I dont know why you relied on my idea so much like %100..

For X-Division the end game mission is a ending video. Because it's ends the game and you don't have a chance to continue to play. For this reason we try to create much more cool stuff before this. Mothership missions, many type of preators capturing, andron AI hacking and you will meet with the right boss at a terror or base defense mission. After you done all, it's up to you to go the end.

Because as i said again, the end mission is "just a map" ... and even you can put some cool stuff in it, i would like to use them on game itself. For example, i would like to a special thing to open alien ufo main doors and command room door. But we can't. I don't know that Solver can write a special map script which connects some tiles to doors opening. Probably he can, i know that he can recode this game as openXenonauts if he wanted but this needs a priority, time and motivation. There are tons of things i can count to you before those. We are talking about huge map editing but we dont even have a "map maker"!!!!...

Solver said he could make a spawn script for maps. I would like to have it to use as a "alien support" for once and twise per mission but you need to edit every map for a support point or points.. is it worth it? Maybe everything is done.

Anyway, we got enough things with 34.2 for 2016..

 

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