llunak Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 (edited) In the downloads section there is a preview version of X:CE 0.27 available. Follow the X:CE 0.26 installation instructions to install. This is an unstable release meant for testing changes introduced in 0.27. X:CE 0.27 will introduce a number of fixes to LOS. As some of those are rather fundamental (e.g. 3D LOS calculation algorithm rewrite), these would preferably need testing before final 0.27 is released. Although this release may be perfectly usable and stable, it is not recommended for normal usage. There are also other 0.27 changes/fixes not related to LOS, and this does not represent the final state of 0.27. Changes related to LOS: Debugging of LOS. The executable shipped with this release is actually a GCEditor build (normally shipped as Xenonauts_gc_editor.exe). Pressing 'H' and 'G' in GC will control various modes showing LOS (the most useful is "LOS cells", "visible tiles" is also useful, the rest are mostly internal). Implemented true 3D LOS algorithm. The old one only computed LOS for each height level using few simple additions to approximate visibility between levels. Cases such as a soldier standing on the roof in the middle of it seeing an alien on the ground level right next to the building's wall should no longer be possible. Fixed LOS problems in night missions, such as showing tiles that were too far to be seen in darkness, while still not showing aliens on them. Alien alerts should be properly added/removed depending on what aliens are visible. A tile is considered visible only if its central cell is visible. This mostly prevents seeing enemies if they are almost completely obscured by a wall, such as if right behind a corner. Improve looking past a corner. If a soldier is standing right behind a corner and looking diagonally past it, the soldier will be able to see much better past the corner (the LOS will be equal to area where shooting is possible because of leaning). This and the previous item may result in a character standing behind a corner being able to see enemies further past the corner, while the opposite not being true (in older releases this was often the other way around, making standing next to corners actually a disadvantage). Re-enable cover indicators present in older beta versions and improve them to show blocks by walls. This should show for any tile all directions that are covered. Note that this does not show the quality of the each cover, only directions. Configurable by ShowCoverState in config.xml . Use leaning even when targetting a tile (previously leaning worked only when targetting a character). Show properly why a leaning shot is still blocked. SkipHiddenAnimations (config.xml) from 0.26 is now enabled by default by xcesettings. Removed visibility range bonus for being on higher levels as it was fundamentally broken. May be possibly re-added properly later. Please test these changes or any other LOS issues and report problems. In theory, there should be no LOS problems present with this release. Notes: LOF is not altered in any way by this release (with the exception of fixes to make it show properly). The LOS debugging function can be used to test why it is or is not possible to see something. It can be also used to test for various map problems, such as unintended holes in UFO hulls. Please report any such problems (preferably also with fixed map/spectre file if you know how to do it). Each tile in GC is represented by a 3x3 matrix of cells. These are used to make LOS, LOF,etc. calculations more precise and also to represent objects taking up only a part of a tile (for example, a wall usually takes up cells at the edge of a tile). These cells are shown by the LOS debug functionality. Being able to see edge cells of a tile that should not be visible is not a problem. A tile is considered to be visible only if its central cell is visible. Edge cells can be often seen because they contain walls blocking LOS, so it is not possible to see the central cell behind them, but the walls themselves are seen. LOS debugging function shows cells for each (shown) height level. For example, for a soldier standing on top of stairs, visible cells on the soldier's floor will be shown, and also cells on the lower level visible through the stairs will be shown. Example showing the LOS debug functionality (revealing an error in UFO cruiser's hull): Edited August 15, 2014 by llunak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabill Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Wow, wasn't expecting this quite so quickly. Might see if I can find some time for trying it out this evening if I'm not working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skitso Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Hopefully this fixes visibility problems with kabill's landingship hole and few of my building submaps with multi story rooms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabill Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Landing ship might be my first test-case. I might also dig out the old modular UFO submap I tidied for Kevin to see if the seeing-through-floors issue is fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skitso Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 There's one strange los issue I've now noticed in two maps: Some tiles just don't get revealed. I'm not sure if it's important, but in both cases, the missing tile was a window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skitso Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 multi story LOS issues are gone! (at least in my building submaps!) Great job guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llunak Posted August 12, 2014 Author Share Posted August 12, 2014 If you want to report a problem, please provide a testcase that allows reproducing the problem (and a screenshot is not that). Also, you know how to use the mapping tools, it'd be very welcome if you could also provide a fix for the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skitso Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 If you want to report a problem, please provide a testcase that allows reproducing the problem (and a screenshot is not that). Here's a save for you. Just select Pedro Gonzales (unit #8) and turn him to SW. Notice how one tile is left unseen. If you move few tiles further down towards SW you'll get it to appear and it's again a window tile. Also, you know how to use the mapping tools, it'd be very welcome if you could also provide a fix for the issue. Sorry, I'm not quite sure how I could fix this with the map editor / submap editor? new los issue.sav new los issue.sav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llunak Posted August 12, 2014 Author Share Posted August 12, 2014 Here's a save for you. Just select Pedro Gonzales (unit #8) and turn him to SW. Notice how one tile is left unseen. If you move few tiles further down towards SW you'll get it to appear and it's again a window tile. Loading that save crashes here, even if I install your pack. Maybe it needs some extra new props? Sorry, I'm not quite sure how I could fix this with the map editor / submap editor? That was meant as a generic note, not just for your case. Problems like the cruiser wall shown in the example is a mapping problem. Yours may be a problem with the LOS algorithm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skitso Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 (edited) Loading that save crashes here, even if I install your pack. Maybe it needs some extra new props? Hmm, shame. But the issue is really easy to reproduce: Like shown in my screenshot above, just approach an uncovered wall from a sharp angle (I've seen it at least in middle east desert abode and industrial office) and window tiles won't get revealed unless really close. Edited August 12, 2014 by Skitso Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skitso Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 (edited) I played with this till the corvettes (dozen GC's or so) and saw few minor LOS inconsistecies here and there but the only two issues worth mentioning I had were: -the issue with window tiles not displaying in certain circumstances as discussed above -LOS is not removed around a killed xenonaut (shroud returns but alien movement can still be seen in the area. Alas, there also seemed to be strange hangs and lockups (no CTD's) I experienced four or five times throughout the session. They always seemed to happed on aliens' turn. No sure if it related to new LOS calculations, but I've never had such lockups before. I know these kinds of bug reports don't help much, but that's all I got now and reproducing these lockups seemed impossible. Thought I'd report them regardless. Edited August 13, 2014 by Skitso Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llunak Posted August 13, 2014 Author Share Posted August 13, 2014 Alas, there also seemed to be strange hangs and lockups (no CTD's) I experienced four or five times throughout the session. They always seemed to happed on aliens' turn. No sure if it related to new LOS calculations, but I've never had such lockups before. I know these kinds of bug reports don't help much, but that's all I got now and reproducing these lockups seemed impossible. Thought I'd report them regardless. See endTurnAutosave in gameconfig.xml . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llunak Posted August 13, 2014 Author Share Posted August 13, 2014 -LOS is not removed around a killed xenonaut (shroud returns but alien movement can still be seen in the area. Day or night mission? Killed during your or alien turn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skitso Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I'm at work now and can't check the quick save, but if I remember correctly, it was night and alien turn. It happened twice in that same mission. I'll check later to be sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solver Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 This preview version can now be installed from Steam by switching your Xenonauts game to the new "community" branch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skitso Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 I'm at work now and can't check the quick save, but if I remember correctly, it was night and alien turn. It happened twice in that same mission. I'll check later to be sure. I have now confirmed this. Night mission and (at least) with alien turn it seems to happen every time: when unit dies, it's LOS is left active and you can see alien activities, eventhough the shroud returns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabill Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 (edited) Just had time for a very small test. As Skitso reported above, LoS seems to be working properly between floors on the same submap and this has fixed the Landing Ship LoS issue in FitH (yay!). However, it wasn't working 100% as I expected it would. I was expecting to be able to see the first tile next to the balconies from quite a distance away, but ended up having to get fairly close (~6 tiles) and then all of a sudden I could see from the edge all the way to the wall a couple of tiles back. Here's a save game to look at: [ATTACH]5256[/ATTACH]. You'll need to install FitH, though (0.26 version is fine) to get it to work. If that's a problem, I can provide screenshots instead. (All this said, it's quite possible it's WAD. I can't tell as I don't know exactly how it's supposed to work, but it didn't to me feel like 'natural' LoS). EDIT: A'right, some pics too. In each picture, the soldier moves 1 tile forwards from the position they started at in the first picture. For the first three tiles, I can't see anything up on the balcony at all. This is surprising, as in RL I would expect to be able to see up there. After moving forward again, the soldier has LoS on two wall sections near each corner, but nothing else. Moving forwards again, the soldier now has LoS on each corner of the upper floor, but again nothing else. Another step forwards gives some vision up to the top floor and it works in a manner I would more or less expect. Move forwards again, however, and I have almost full vision to the upper floor. At this point, the soldier is only a few tiles away from the edge (somewhere where I wouldn't expect you'd be able to see anything other than the tile immediately next to the edge. I've not got a shot for this, but moving forwards once more begins to reduce vision again (which is fair enough). For what it's worth, I noticed something similar in Skitso's screenshot posted on the first page. The soldier is only a few tiles away from the building but has vision on the roof going about half way across it, which should be impossible. LoS Stuff.sav LoS Stuff.sav Edited August 14, 2014 by kabill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skitso Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Please post screens with description too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabill Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skitso Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 (edited) For what it's worth, I noticed something similar in Skitso's screenshot posted on the first page. The soldier is only a few tiles away from the building but has vision on the roof going about half way across it, which should be impossible. Nice pics. Yeah, it definitely doesn't look right. You should see more the further away you are from the ledge and not at all when you are close to it. And why is the second floor visible in the first place if there isn't LoS to there? Or did you reveal it pre screen capturing? Also, why isn't first floor visible from the second floor's holes? Regarding my picture, I had a Chinook just north of that pic, so LoS is probably affected by guys over there. Edited August 14, 2014 by Skitso Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabill Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Nice pics. Yeah, it definitely doesn't look right. You should see more the further away you are from the ledge and not at all when you are close to it. And why is the second floor visible in the first place if there isn't LoS to there? Or did you reveal it pre screen capturing? Also, why isn't first floor visible from the second floor's holes? I'd already explored that area previously (there were Caesans in the way that needed shooting first!). The floor isn't visible because of how the Landing Ship hull works. The centre bit of the hull is completely black, and since there's no way to not display it when you move up a level, you just get black in the gaps. (I spent a long time trying to find a workaround for this but there's nothing that's adequate, sadly.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llunak Posted August 15, 2014 Author Share Posted August 15, 2014 Those 2 black areas are supposed to be empty "holes", right? That should get fixed. From what I can tell, there's no principal problem. Unlike horizontal direction, where tiles have more granularity in the form of cells, there's no additional vertical division after floors. So you either do see a tile (or cell) or don't. Those visible 2nd level tiles are places where you could see an alien (a cell is considered visible, in vertical terms, if its middle is visible). While I could change it so that floor shown as visible only if it can be seen, that'd result in aliens running on top of black areas, so I consider that current way better. Also, you cannot see some tiles because you have not only a minimum angle up, but also a maximum angle. The soldier cannot see those tiles from further away because of ceiling/floor above the soldier. I can see some small glitches in that case though, there are few cells that I think shouldn't be considered visible, so I'll have a look at that somewhen, but I don't consider this significant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llunak Posted August 15, 2014 Author Share Posted August 15, 2014 Alas, there also seemed to be strange hangs and lockups (no CTD's) I experienced four or five times throughout the session. They always seemed to happed on aliens' turn. No sure if it related to new LOS calculations, but I've never had such lockups before. I know these kinds of bug reports don't help much, but that's all I got now and reproducing these lockups seemed impossible. Thought I'd report them regardless. See endTurnAutosave in gameconfig.xml . Any update on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skitso Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Nope sorry, I'd need to set up a clean install to make sure you can open the possible saves first... I'll try to do it monday - tuesday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterwolves Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 (edited) I've just been playing a little, and so far the LOS system seems pretty good. I have noticed there is a difference between standing at the corner of a prop and a building though: The building corner LOS is great, and I like how you've fixed being able to see straight down the side of a building from up high as well. And here is another funny one: With the corner of the wall there, the LOS is even worse than the container one. Edited August 16, 2014 by winterwolves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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