Incorrect mentions of real technology in the Xenopedia

[kabill]

"This is just a game" and "This is fiction" are monumental non-arguments liberally used to handwave just about anything and dismiss any piece of criticism. Might as well just add sparkling rainbow unicorns to every game and work of fiction if nothing matters and there's no implicit rules anywhere.

Nope, they're perfectly reasonable arguments which serve as a reminder to the fact that 100% accordance to reality in fiction is neither necessary nor inherently a good thing. It *might* be, depending on what you're trying to do and what you want the outcome to be like. But it also might not be.

[Shadow86]

Nope, they're perfectly reasonable arguments which serve as a reminder to the fact that 100% accordance to reality in fiction is neither necessary nor inherently a good thing. It *might* be, depending on what you're trying to do and what you want the outcome to be like. But it also might not be.

Sure, if you want to read the post that way. But there was no such moderation in it. He seemed to be more strongly advocating no accordance to reality whatsoever, if nothing is "real" except what we have experienced (or determined) ourselves directly and all that matters is connecting different experiences. Pointlessly philosophical. It's so out there it equates all fiction (and therefore all games) to whimsical fantasy, completely disregarding pretty much everything.

[kabill]

Arguing that "there is no such thing as reality aside from our experience of it" is not the same as arguing "anything goes".

To draw from this thread an example: the IRBM. Most people - myself included until reading this thread! - don't know what a IRBM is. As such, for those people, there is no such thing as an IRBM. It doesn't exist; it's not real.

Whether or not there have been, or are, physical objects referred to as "IRBMs" doesn't actually matter. Equally, the existence of historical documents or wikipedia articles explicating them doesn't matter, either. What matters is that - for the vast majority of the target audience - the IRBM doesn't and never did exist. It's not a weapon. It's a typo, or (at best) a fictional invention of the author.

But just because, for most people, the IRBM isn't real doesn't mean you can substitute it for anything else instead. Because, to use you're own example, unicorns don't exist either (at least for most people!). While rainbows aren't nuclear weapons. If "ICBM" is an effective alternative, it's because people are more likely to be familiar with the term and therefore, in terms of the audience of the text, is more real.

To argue that experiential realities matter, then, is not to claim that there is no such thing as reality. Instead, it's to complexify reality: to accept (perhaps better, to enact) reality as irreducible to a single point. The reality of what happened in the past isn't necessarily any more important or real than the reality of what people know (or don't know) to have happened in the present. And, in this instance, the latter has good cause to trump the former.

[Anderty]

Sure, if you want to read the post that way. But there was no such moderation in it. He seemed to be more strongly advocating no accordance to reality whatsoever, if nothing is "real" except what we have experienced (or determined) ourselves directly and all that matters is connecting different experiences. Pointlessly philosophical. It's so out there it equates all fiction (and therefore all games) to whimsical fantasy, completely disregarding pretty much everything.

Ok, then here, have it in just few words: Simply, each have it's own experience on things. Just remember, that you shouldn't bother others with what you think should be better so aggressively. Just because no one asked and it's still, what you WANT for others to experience. You can tell, thought, but then don't aggressively stand for your point, till you'll demand from opposition what do YOU want, not what THEY want.

That was what I wanted to tell. Everyone is free to tell what they think. But no one has right to demand from others to believe in what you think is right. Simple as that. Post author clearly is demanding to stand with his position.

[thixotrop]

But no one has right to demand from others to believe in what you think is right. Simple as that.

Tell that to those who wanted and those who still want to persuade others to believe in their religion, which is in the persuader eyes "the only corect one".

[KevinHann]

And thixotropism was just born!

[Mathalor]

There's a difference between demanding and inviting, which is a difference that not all religionists make. I'm fine talking to someone about religion, even door to door people. But not if they're demanding. This isn't the era of the Spanish Inquisition.

Back on topic, I'd download a mod if it rewrote the xenopedia articles for scientific accuracy. That'd be awesome. I'd have to find out about it's existence first, though.

[a_beorning]

The biggest factor that determines the EMP is altitude and the range of its effects is determined by the visual horizon, which is limited by the curvature of the Earth. The higher the explosion, the bigger the range.

First, do not mix EMP as damaging factor and EMP as a detectable signal.

Visual range of explosion is a range of damage, where, for example, non-protected electronic devices will be destroyed or at least temporarily disrupted.

But EMP as an electromagnetic wave is able to be reflected. And there is a Heaviside layer in atmosphere, 90-120 km height, which partially reflects electromagnetic waves (reflection percentage depends of frequency).

Radio amateurs since mid-1920's sucessfully used this effect to establish intercontinental radio contacts without any relaying stations, let alone sattelites. First oficially registered - Connecticut,USA-Nice,France, 1923.

Output power of their transmitterts was no more than several kW.

EMP from nuclear blast over Iseland will not, of course, burn out all soviet radars. They are too far away, out of direct visual range.

But even after several reflections, signal with initial power about gigaWatts will be strong enough to be registered.

True but nuclear explosions provoke minor earthquakes when they happen underground, which was not the case during Iceland. On underground tests the energy of the blast is absorbed by the Earth, which provokes the quake, while on above ground explosions the energy expands through the atmosphere.

Most part of energy expands through the atmosphere. Not "all energy".

Most picturesque example was soviet test AN602, 30 october 1961.

Atmospheric explosion, height 4200m over sea level. Power: approximately 55 Mt. Seismic wave was not only worldwide registerable - it was registered even on 3rd coil around globe!

According to a bulletin of the U.S. Geological Survey it had seismic magnitude mb = 5.0 to 5.25.

(see here - http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Russia/TsarBomba.html)

Edited June 16, 2014 by a_beorning
typos

[thixotrop]

And thixotropism was just born!

Wow, another expression for me. Frist the conundrum now thixotropism.

Do I get a forum-medal now?

[KevinHann]

Wow, another expression for me. Frist the conundrum now thixotropism.

Do I get a forum-medal now?

Isn't being the head of a cult good enough for you?

[thixotrop]

Isn't being the head of a cult good enough for you?

On second thought, yes.

[FireStorm1010]

@op

I really enjoy the background story , and the fact these details are provided , and i dont care about those little errors.They make this quasi realy mood for me, which in all my love for Xcom EU , i never really felt.. Prollly because my knowledge of this stuff is quite murky. I can imagine someone with deeper knowledge might be more sensitive and annoyed. When they do silly stuff about informatics i do get a bad taste even if i try not to pay attention.

PS are you same Hobbes from 2k Xcom forums?

Edited June 17, 2014 by FireStorm1010