XenoMask

I know there probably isn't going to be memorial wall, but could credits list names of soldiers who died or something? Why I'm asking for this? Well, honestly, I have hard time remembering name of soldiers who died in original XCOM games.(unless they are named by me or happened to get amusing names like Orski Donski(hes pretty good soldier which is something since I'm playing TFTD...)) It'd be rather emotional to see list of everyone and remember who they were.

I wonder if they decided to change it because some people are mistaking glam cam of XCOM EU for third person shooter or because they were already on that road when they started copying abilities from Mass Effect

I too like debating for sake of debating :3 Its fun! Yeah, I too thought about that, then I realized that they have aiming capability of stormtroopers. THATS why it doesn't make sense, you'd think that world finest soldiers would know how to aim. Hmm, yeah, though UI made it kind of hard to do that as you had to remember them by name. Unless you could check their stats in equipment screen.. Anyway, if UFO: Extender's "save equipment loadouts" had been in the game from beginning, it would have been more manageable to give them all stat suitable weapons. Hence why I usually never bothered to check stats, only stat i could remember was who had best psionics. Yeah, I've heard of argument that they took that choice away, which is true. However, in some cases taking choice away means that you have to think about it more strategically. Its really case specific whether having more choice is good or not. Yeah, though aliens tend to kill me even when I'm in smoke (Pssst, I think aliens cheaaat )

@Langy: There ARE bigger maps, like I said watch the previews. Gamespot livestream preview has pretty big map that they decide to show at some point, though you are unlikely to see whole map first time you play.(it seems to be another way they are using maps, since they use different spawn points randomly chosen, some maps look different from another spawn point. If map is so huge that you'll likely encounter all aliens without seeing it completely, you won't notice that its same map if you get it again at another spawn point. Of course thats my theory, but yeah, my point is that there are huge maps) Alien base map is fricking huge for example, which is why its incredibly hard on classic as you can't retreat from it meaning that if your squad isn't strong enough to survive whole thing they are dead for good. @mordenkien: Like I said, I'm not really trying to sell XCOM: EU. Why? Because I know that if you love the original game as greatest game ever(note: That spot of western turn based strategies goes for Apocalypse in my opinion despite everyone claiming its balanced for real time Like I said, only xcom game I would try to defend and sell is Apocalypse, in my opinion at least), you will likely be disappointed by some of the changes even if they make sense as they are different from original. I have said it that in my opinion it has same spirit, but gameplay is obviously different and you have to use different tactics than in original game. Anyway, either way, demo is sucky way of judging the game as its tutorial and doesn't even let you have freedom in base building. So only other way of judging the game is watching videos of other playing it or renting the copy/going to friend to play it/borrow from friend. Which is another reason I'm not trying to sell it, it'd be sucky to use lots of money only to discover that you were right and won't enjoy game anyway because you can't get over the changes.

Hmm, yeah, but there is that with smaller squads, you can't use rookies as canon fodder for your veterans. It forces you to play tactically in order to minimize casualties as losing one squad member isn't small deal anymore.

Well, if majority of news are about tons of deaths, chrysalids overrunning cities, people being abducted, etc, I'm not sure it would be that amusing Reminds me of Xenonauts' UFO sight thing at bottom screen.

Huh, I guess comparisons to Mass Effect WERE accurate Really, I never liked this one because only reason its XCOM is that 2K remembered they had alien series and decided to cash in, its completely original game that just had unfortunately given name XCOM because 2K didn't realize what messing with cult fanbase means. Game itself looked interesting, but problem was that its named XCOM.

I guess I don't really mind it because I like diversity itself and I didn't mind it in UFO: Aftermath either. Makes me feel like minority since I have nothing against Two Parters.

PC elitism again I see. Really, you are saying that they changed it because of consoles or that its partly because of that? Since I can honestly see reason for it that has nothing to do with consoles. Also be happy that I'm not offended at ADHD remark Anyway, I've already said it, but XCOM honestly doesn't make sense at all from realistic stand point. Like for the example, why are world finest soldiers all "rookies"? Especially in original game where they can't aim. And wear ghost buster jumpsuits. Like for example, you say that them having classes doesn't make sense, but it doesn't make sense for them to be universal either, in real life there aren't soldiers who are good with every kind of weapon. Also, aren't real life strike teams about 6 - 8 people anyway? They aren't 24 people squads as far as I can remember. Also, you are calling it inflexible because it means you have to use different tactics than in original game. Thats not logical reasoning, in a same way I can argue that original is inflexible as its to an extent luck based whether you can make your soldiers survive because of such things as aliens killing units when they leave skyranger and such. And yeah, I'm replying to multiple people same time.

Dang it, I think I can't handle both EU and alpha deluxe/beta of Xenonauts not being released on next week yet... I've been doing today tons of rant about XCOM series ._.;

Yeah, you are right about that, its usually best to use one team. I noticed on my first playthrough that despite having two teams I used, I preferred use my main base team as they had better equipment, more experience and generally were stronger. Besides it got bothersome to use two when one was clearly more efficient and could take care of everything. Honestly, Xenonauts has differences from original game, like that psionics are human only and there aren't blaster bombs. People DID complain about it when kickstarter was around, but some people prefer to remember it differently. I did my own chart on similarities of xcom type games When compared to first XCOM game, they go in this order(in my opinion) in term of similarity to original game. Only listing games I have played, so not games identical to original game like UFO 2000 and open xcom. TFTD(by virtue of being the same game ) > Xenonauts(it has differences, but its pretty similar at this point, main difference seems to be mainly that almost all aliens are bipedal, psionics are alien only and items/research slightly different) > UFO: Alien Invasion(remake of original with its own twists, gameplay and research tree wise its pretty much same, but it does have unique enemies for most part and few own things like sam missile sites) > UFO: Extraterrestrials Gold(Gold is version with Briar's mod which makes it basically identical to original, but without mods its WAY different, for example, there isn't permadeath as you can revive your soldiers with cloning or something. BTW snakemen are in which exact same look but different name, thats how blatant it is) > Apocalypse(its true sequel in my opinion and improves lots of stuff, but cityscape alone makes it different)> XCOM: EU(its fairly similar to original in some respects, but TU change alone makes it way different considering that all of above ones have TU.) > Aftermath(its territory expansion game where you fight agaisnt mutants and greys) > Aftershock (Same, but with friendly factions and flying colony base) > Afterlight (Same, but with enemy factions, alien factions you can ally with and Fire Emblem style units that you don't get more of them and each one has unique backstory. So yeah, limited amount of unique soldiers) > Unmodded UFO Extraterrestrials(Honestly, while it still had TU and apparently, stuff I've heard about it makes it way different. For example, lack of permadeath alone makes it way removed from all others as permadeath is something you should never remove from Xcom) And thats list of them mechanically. If you ask me, all XCOM games(with UFO: Extraterrestrials having it weaker because its fan game copy and with exception of Enforcer and probably Interceptor too(pop references? Really?)) have the same spirit. Thats something I've noticed from each of them. They all share that feeling that makes them XCOM, well XCOM, though each have their own unique take on it(well, okay, if you ask from me, Apocalypse and TFTD have mostly same spirit as original as they are sequel/expansion pack sequel). Even the Afterwhatever series despite being rather far removed superficially. Darn, I have today been in ranty mood. How many rants I have already done? Three? Four?

Okay, before I get annoyed again, I post something to calm myself down: I own all three original xcom games, plus today I bought Interceptor and Enforcer(along with Apocalypse for steam, I already own it on cd but getting it work is pain and my dosbox setup stopped working for it for some odd reason) for sake of saying that I own every XCOM game. I have preordered Xenonauts and XCOM: EU. I have UFO Aftermath, Aftershock and Afterlight. I have UFO: Extraterrestrials Gold and am not particularly interested in its sequel but will likely buy it at some point anyway. I have played UFO: Alien Invasion and like it. I haven't played Open XCOM, UFO: Two Sides, UFO: 2000 or any other fan version of original game that is mostly the same game with some own additions. Any other XCOM clones I missed?

Yeah, I know. It just doesn't mash well with my personality =/

Like I said in another thread, I'm not as much defending the game as I'm complaining about what I see as illogical reasoning(also like I have said, only XCOM game I "defend" is Apocalypse. What is difference you ask? If you insult Apocalypse, I personally feel insulted, if you insult XCOM: EU, I'm annoyed if its factually incorrect). For example: This implies that simpler = automatically "duller" and "requires less thinking", which honestly isn't logically true. Honestly, I am unhappy with removal of TU, but thats less because I thought it was good mechanic, but more because it feels like to XCOM what jumping is to Mario games. However, XCOM isn't about TU so I don't mind it that much. Why would internationally funded defense organization that specialized on squads be more successful that countries working together?*shrugs* Anyway, its gameplay choice. You don't like different gameplay, fine, but I personally don't think it itself ruins immersion and atmosphere. It just changes it, in original game its fly swatting with you trying to swat as many flies(read ufos) before they complete their mission which in time becomes almost unbearable(well at least until you have strong enough interceptors to shoot them all down, after that there are too many crashsites to do them all without being bored) while reimagining is more about prioritizing. Who you help, for what rewards, who you leave to crash and burn, etc. (also, xcom isn't most sense making game in first place, why do aliens do "Terror missions" to make governments stop funding? Heck, why do they do terrorist stuff if they are advanced? Did they not invent plasma nukes or something? Why they don't just brainwash everyone? Why don't they send most advanced units at the beginning? Its video game so it plays by video game logic, you just have to be able to suspend your disbelief.) I also like micromanaging, but there is point when it can be too much. Really though, they could have probably done something like apocalypse where you can move your units same time, but still too slow. Anyway, smaller squads mean that you need to be more careful with your tactics, you can't anymore rely on main tactic of original game known as "Canon fodder" It also means units have to work together in more way than "Shoot at the same target". Hmm, yeah, thats why I don't think unlimited ammo is big deal, in original you never run out of ammo unless you weren't prepared enough.(and even then you mainly run out of it on TFTD SO maybe on harder difficulties that people can't normally experience because of bug) Anyway, there are still perks to choose when you level up and that extra item slot, so even then you still have choices. Ultimately its illusion that original game had more choices as only thing current model lacks is ability give medikit and stunning item to same unit. Point wasn't that it was bad or anything, point was that they didn't want to do "Win or die" mission where when you lose, its game over. Which makes sense as on ironman that means permadeath.(main losing condition in XCOM: EU is that 8 countries leave the council, I suppose there might be dept too since maintain costs still exist. I wonder whether final mission will be different or follow same rule) Anyway, I liked base defences too(though they essentially disappeared from game after mind shield) (Yeah, I know, not anymore reply to me, I still reply ) Huh, why you don't trust steam to buy from there? Its just 5 dollars/euro on there anyway.(I own all xcom games there nowadays) I admit that I posted that when I was particularly bad mood, but honestly, most of posts I was describing that are on 2K forums are kind of like that. I suspect most of them are trolls since poster doesn't post anything else, but some of them are probably genuine. Also, you are now doing the same thing that I was raging about: Assuming things without doing any kind of research to check if you are right. You are assuming they "removed features" to make game "sell better" without having any kind of reasoning why they would assume those features would make it sell better or without having any respects for developers. Let me ask you something, can you understand why devs of Apocalypse did changes and such that they did with the game? If you can, then you can also understand choices developers of this game did.

Huh, so tanks are useless even with roads? Well, I guess they move too slow to fight ufos, but I figured out they are useful for other stuff as they have good stats. Eh, maybe they were more useful in original concept for game... I mean, bike vehicle was probably for corporate spying or something as its completely useless on its own to send lone agent to mission. Unless you like challenge or something.

Yay! I hope you can get used to retro future art. (Note: Since it was my first XCOM game ever, I never had problem of shock upon seeing new style )

Yeah, this is alpha, AI stuff is gonna be developed more during beta.

Well, it depends on how hardcore XCOM fan you are. And I don't mean in positive way(note that I love Apocalypse), I mean if you consider change of artstyle to retro future and from geoscape to cityscape worst thing ever, then you might not like it.(also, some people say game is balanced for real time mode, but I have no clue what they are talking about and always play in turn based mode. I mean, what, brainsuckers and poppers are harder in turn based? How is that good reason, chrysalids are loved for being hard... ANYWAY) And game did get tons of stuff cut out because of developing problems, but you might not notice that if you don't know about it.(most of stuff cut out have to do with corporates, capturing VIPs, interrogating them and such other human enemy stuff) ...Ahem, anyway, game does improve on some stuff on original game, for example when you choose where to move it displays how many tu you are gonna have left after moving so you don't need to count it yourself. Also, buildings are this time completely destructible meaning you can destroy first floor(and assuming your computer can handle it) and then watch apartment building(note: There are maps with HUGE amount of floors, up to 9 I think) crash down. Of course, corporates don't like you destroying their property, but its still fun. Also, you can go prone. Also, aliens this time around are completely original(like, no greys or aliens based on any other existing alien lore or in case of TFTD, Lovecraft's books) and don't look like b scifi movie aliens.(or horror movie in case of TFTD, gillman I mean) Instead, they look alien in alieny way, but some people think art style makes them look like muppets(I have no clue why would anyone get reminded of muppets, they all look rather grotesque) But yeah, if you ask me, its best of original three as I have childhood nostalgia for it and it is good game even if it has its flaws. As XCOM fan I think its worth to try it out at least even if you don't end up liking it. But if you love original two games very much, be aware of that while they improved upon some mechanics on original, they did change up lots of stuff. Whether they changed too much or whether you like the changes is up to you. @Gazz: Huh, much does making roads last more than one hit change? I know that it would make tanks more useful(Tanks have great stats, but they die in one hit as every road vehicle dies at the moment road gets destroyed, and since to shoot at tank you shoot also at road...) but does it change anything else? Also where I can get that editor?

Hmm, well, it depends on how they do the "single unaccessible huge tile to have ufo scale" thing Chris mentioned, but I do get what you mean. Its one fun thing in Apocalypse regarding to ufos, UFOs are darn huge(smallest ones(which would probably still be huger than large scout) don't even have mission or alien control systems, apparently they all died in crash and equipment got scrapped so only thing you do with them is retrieve them and research them to find what type of ufo they are) so every ground mission has them in big scale. Sadly, its trade off for unique terrain as you usually spawn near ufo entry point and there is little area around it but no point going there as aliens are inside the UFO waiting to kill you.

Eh, I don't think two parter UFO missions compromise "integrity of the source material", TFTD had two parter missions too. Though they weren't with USOs. Anyway, you can't blow up walls to UFOs in this game anyway, so even if they put it on on map you wouldn't be able to do same as in original game.

Its something weird I've noticed, people who account just to complain on 2K And bizarrely it applies here as if they made account to thank Xenonauts makers while talking about horrible XCOM EU or whatever. Eh, I have learned to agree to disagree, but I have hard time accepting misconceptions. When there are tons of people misunderstanding the game because of that demo, I get brain overload.(I'm type of guy who you can perfectly well to be that guy that video makers complain about making posts in video comments just to correct whoever is talking in the video =P I have obsession with correcting wrong information) Speaking of which, you are making same assumption that that guy did on demo thread, that I'm defending the game and that I like it I like Apocalypse, THATS defending and liking it, here I'm correcting people who state wrong info.

Okay, seriously, does everyone have to make jabs at XCOM:EU based on demo on their firsts posts on every xcom site? Seriously though, yeah, removing hidden movement screens would be bad, I'd be happier if they added more pics, like how Apocalypse had multiple ones.(I guess they could one up apocalypse by having hidden movement screen update based on alien invasion phase/aliens/your researched technology instead of spoilering future armor)

*sigh* I'm frustrated at people with less than ten posts both here and 2k threads making random jabs at this game based on that crappy demo and stuff we know from long time ago already. I'm almost suffering some kind of break down I feel like making rants and already did two rants on demo thread. Ugh, I guess I should be looking forward to october, "alpha deluxe" and this game gets released around same time so that's something for me to do. For now my goal is to beat old games though.

Sorry, but I'm not actually interested in convincing people to buy this, I'm just replying to things I consider to be misinformation or assumings things without checking the facts. Just like you are assuming that I'm defending the game because I like it. Now Apocalypse on other hand is game I like Anyway, my stand on matter is that lots of xcom fans are complaining about silly things and overreacting in "Oh my gooooooood, this game lacks one feature that original had that it didn't even do that well, this game is worst game evar! How dare they! Lynch the developers!" way. I mean honestly, game is dumbed down for being unable to make every unit into pack mule? Heck, in way that just takes strategy away if you can just make every soldier "universal". Same way it takes strategy away for them not to be able to be universal Game seems to be at worst "Good on its own" and at best it has same spirit as original game did.(at least on difficulty department, you probably aren't going to lose soldiers to reaction fire by trying to get them through ufo's doors but there are other ways you get punished for making mistakes. Actually, now that I think about it, in original there is nothing to do when breaching ufos than hope aliens aren't there shooting at you so yeah =P) It may have less "customization"(that ultimately was meaningless on original especially on higher difficulties if you were playing it without save scumming) but it substitutes that with choices that can backfire on you or do other rather meaningful things relating to completing the game. It does change some tactical things, but honestly, its becoming more tactical than original game in some points. Ahem, too long to read version: People whine about silly things because changing small things is such a big deal and game seems to be good enough assuming it can hold up to previews. And assuming previewers aren't lying, it does seem to have addiction factor that original has. Which I believe, Firaxis' latest game Civ V might have gotten flack at release(it was apparently buggy mess among other things) but currently even though it plays differently from older Civs it still has addiction factor, some charm of original and charm of its own.(Okay, so far I have only played Civ II, Civ III little bit and Civ V from pre order at steam) (BTW, there is also that that I'm waiting for beta/alpha release of Xenonauts with full content =P Not much to talk about here before Chris returns so I'm mainly posting on XCOM EU threads) And in case if anyone is wondering, I'm capable of creating rant of of each XCOM and XCOM clone about why it isn't horrible(if someone is saying its bad in snobby fanboy tone) and why it isn't perfect(if someone is like best game evar), including Apocalypse which I love the most

Hmm, yeah, most stuff removed aren't THAT important. I mean, TU for examples were major part of original, but main thing about XCOM has always been mainly the research, intercepting and tactics parts(and out of those intercepting is least important, but still), how you move your units is not that important, which is why UFO Afterwhatever series have partly same feeling as XCOM series despite being pretty much completely different.(for those who don't know, Afterwhatever series is real time with pause, though technically some parts of it are like turn based but in real time. Its hard to explain.) Anyway, since I'm frustrated, I'm gonna say why I think none of those are essential to XCOM while they are part of it All of them are cool features and I'm glad they are in Xenonauts, but I'm just annoyed of comments that equal to "Ruined FOREVER!!!" 1. Multiple bases: It was cool, but it was never actually important. It does allow you for customization and different playstyles, but they were so expensive that you were likely to go for the best type.(which is mainly using them as radars and hangarbases Maybe you can create workshop base and laboratory base, but thats optional and real option only if you have money to do it. It takes kinda long time to create completely research only base) 2. Again, cool but not major, espicially since base placement is important so there is no point putting it on artic or Finland (because most of coverage will be over sea). Heck, besides countries near the sea(or islands), you always want to put it somewhere there where is most cities to protect. Or at least landmass so ufos drop on ground. 3. Wait, whats this one? Oh yeah, sending multiple skyrangers and such to different places? Eh, thats cut out because new game mechanic is making gameplay meaningful choices, if they allowed that it'd make it pointless. 4. Really, does anyone like moving multiple units at same time?(especially since original had bad pathfinding). Only thing for keeping it that I can see is that you can afford to lose few units, but honestly, moving multiple units(especially since original lacked ability to move them as group/squad like apocalypse did) when number is 24 is fricking pain.(which is why I use more tanks ) And honestly, fewer squad members means you'll use them as squad instead of large group of individuals who can replace each other if they die. Requires more strategy. I do agree that 8 squad members would work though, though 6 is bit more optimal. 5. Eh, new game has class system so even if they had same kind of inventory, you couldn't equip everything like in original game. Besides, their new theme seems to be making choices and it is choice whether you have grenade or medikit as fourth slot item.(really, only benefit of original inventory is that you can make them carry stun rod, medikit and grenades plus ammo at same time.) I do like paperdoll inventory, but honestly, people are making overly big deal about it. 6. Again, since they added perks and such it'd be too confusing to use time units. I'm sad at removal of them, but to be honest, it was pain that turning around used them. Plus when your squad was leveled up, rookies were slow at going with them, now they at least move at same pace. 7. Again I'm sad they removed it, but since they have one base only, on ironman it could mean permadeath especially since game is still just as hard as original on classic at least. 8. Eh, this is related to base invasions. Honestly, most of base defence buildings got useless after mind shield.