Damned money!!!need more money!! Is hard to understand??

[theothersider]

sorry for the apparently aggressive post but the new monetary system(ver 19.4),better than the stable version is still insufficient..ok ,cost are lowered,well but expecting that a dozen of underpaid mans save the world against an overwhelming alien force is...frustrating!!!!absolutely need(my personal opinion) to at least:

1)enhancing the monthly founding of at least 200k more than the actual...

2)ability to retake lost nations

3)the abatement of fighter and every ufos increase nation's rating??

in a my new game i have in 20 oct,8250$!!!2 condor,1foxtrot,14 mans,0 armour a 2nd base with a radar array and an hangar.. the world's founding trend in a costant drop(and all,apart uf USSR hate me),the only ufo's are fighters(high risk for no gain) can i do something in that conditions???

and more,the foxtrot are underpowered!!i prefer the older asset with 4 missiles..it granted a better results..

[Dranak]

Your feedback will probably be taken a lot more seriously if you take a moment and calm down, instead of using profanity and excessive exclamation points.

If you think Foxtrots are underpowered, I suggest reading an air combat guide such as this. Foxtrots are the only aircraft you need to build until Marauders (Jan/Febish), but they do need a little micro to use properly. You absolutely can continue from your current position, and while I agree that money is currently a little too tight, there should be some trade-off where by expanding early you sacrifice the ability to start teching (ground weapon/armor) in exchange for early radar/fighter coverage in a new area.

[thothkins]

Just to provide a contrasting view, by the end of October in my 19.4 game.

1) Money is tight, but at with November's funding I've laid the foundations of a third base.

2) N. America (now has operation base 2) and Australia (in reach of Base 3) have declined in both months funding. Hav eoyu lost a base by October theothersider? I'd be quite surprised if that was the case. Retaking lost nations is somethign the devs have said they would look at from way back.

3) Pretty much bang on the start of October I moved form Light Scouts to Scouts. I got 4 in October along with 2 fighter waves and 4 individual fighters. In November I've just had the first Corvette. So far, it has been a much better balance.

Some foxtrot weapons look to have been tweaked as I couldn't take out a light scout with 1 alone in a single run. But overall, much the same as before.

On economy, to get those three bases, everyone is still running around in boiler suits with ballistic weapons.

[Revoke]

Your feedback will probably be taken a lot more seriously if you take a moment and calm down, instead of using profanity and excessive exclamation points.

If you think Foxtrots are underpowered, I suggest reading an air combat guide such as this. Foxtrots are the only aircraft you need to build until Marauders (Jan/Febish), but they do need a little micro to use properly. You absolutely can continue from your current position, and while I agree that money is currently a little too tight, there should be some trade-off where by expanding early you sacrifice the ability to start teching (ground weapon/armor) in exchange for early radar/fighter coverage in a new area.

Thats bollocks, ive spent hours reading, 100 lines of text, some ideas to problems and the only reply i had was a 1 liner..'' im not a fan but thats ok''.

Dont post, sit back and hope the circle of listened to forum warriors push the game in the right direction.

[thothkins]

Dont post, sit back and hope the circle of listened to forum warriors push the game in the right direction.

Or do post, engage with the forums and have a fun reasoned discussion about things?

I'm not even aware of any cliques in the forums, let alone circles of people who are listened to. But if you don't post, you'll not even be read, let alone listened to.

[Revoke]

Or do post, engage with the forums and have a fun reasoned discussion about things?

I'm not even aware of any cliques in the forums, let alone circles of people who are listened to. But if you don't post, you'll not even be read, let alone listened to.

Your right, reasoned discussion is what i was expecting but all ive had is a 1 liner. Experience so far shows its a pointless endeavor but ill keep my chin up. This is 1 of the very few games i give a damn about.

Edit: i wasnt referring to the dev's ill be lucky if they even read it

Edited July 13, 2013 by Revoke

[Mytheos]

I dont know there seems to be some kind of clique between Chris, Aaron, Sathra and Mathew...

Everything they talk about always seems to make it in the game.

It's probably some conspiracy...

[thothkins]

yeah, I wonder what that connection is?

Your right, reasoned discussion is what i was expecting but all i've had is a 1 liner.

If you post a link to the thread in question, I'll be sure to leave more than 1 line. I can't promise more than two lines, in case I don't agree with your point

My benchmark is a post I spent hours on. I put together little tables, did my research through the older posts, looked at other X-COm type games. Then I posted. And then silence descended. Not a jot of a response.

[GizmoGomez]

Which post was that, thothkins?

[thothkins]

I couldn't possibly say now Gizmo. I don't >sob< need pity posts

[GizmoGomez]

I'm just interested in reading it; I wasn't going to post on it.

[thothkins]

Well, you say that you're interested in reading it. But who is to say that once you start reading it, you won't fall into a coma like all those poor other souls that went there.

[theothersider]

ok, i'm very calm,probably have used excessive exclamation points ,i have to play more for understand the new mechanichs.. i will try a new game and see..

thanks guys

[thothkins]

I had a quiet swear word when a shot went straight through a wall in an alien base killing my soldier. "It's still in Beta" "It's still in Beta" "It's still in Beta" "It's still in Beta" went the mantra...

[theothersider]

yeah!!! it still a beta!!and my soldiers say?? it's a nightmare!shoot from the all the f...d parts!! ok isn't a problem after all..but a revision for the financial balance is needed!alien precision also to recalculate..the human soldiers fires like a company of drunken conscripts..

[Mytheos]

If you post a link to the thread in question, I'll be sure to leave more than 1 line. I can't promise more than two lines, in case I don't agree with your point

)

If you want more than 1 sentence from Thothkins, thats easy, just mention something about fire.

He is like a Moth to anything about Flames.

[thothkins]

Hey, don;t get me all fired up in the wrong thread

A month further on (mid December) and money seems to be OK (ish) I have three bases, with 1 foxtrot and 2 condors to each. Not a penny spent elsewhere on armour or weapons though, and that's starting to bite a little.

With lots of caution, ballistics seems to be holding on, but there is a reliance on Alenium grenades/ rockets as expected.

I'm probably going to stop with this third base, check where I am with the tech and start arming the troops, but we'll see.

[theothersider]

Hey, don;t get me all fired up in the wrong thread

A month further on (mid December) and money seems to be OK (ish) I have three bases, with 1 foxtrot and 2 condors to each. Not a penny spent elsewhere on armour or weapons though, and that's starting to bite a little.

With lots of caution, ballistics seems to be holding on, but there is a reliance on Alenium grenades/ rockets as expected.

I'm probably going to stop with this third base, check where I am with the tech and start arming the troops, but we'll see.

This is the point..using all the cash of three monts only for building up an air force (little since for me a base need at least 2 foxtrot and three condor to be effective..not to say the ground forces)leaving apart all the field advancement(at the same time our mans go in battle without armor,laser weapons(even already discovered)and veichles aginst heavily armed alien forces is a bit frustrating..the game will be better balanced if beyond aircraft to control the skies the man go into battle with some better weapons..the game risk to becoming excessively boring..or worse,frustrating(more than now)for do that is needed a more generous founding(the actual founding is lower than a local boyscout community)

[thothkins]

I'm not disagreeing at all. By "money seems to be OK", I mean that I'm managing to survive and not all of the funding nations hate me. I'm going to try to see how far I get with this approach. Already I could see signs that I was overpowered in both a base defence mission and a base attack mission in December.

Hopefully, I'll get to the end with a much better idea of critical paths, that will help evaluate funding requirements.

[StellarRat]

I'm sure we'll get more money in future versions. I played a brilliant and lucky game, went to every recovery mission, every terror mission, lost only one soldier a month and STILL could barely scrape together enough cash to build a second base while foregoing a lot of laser weapons and armor. It shouldn't be that hard. I can't imagine a beginner or even an experienced gamer (though not experienced in Xenonauts) being able to make it past January under the current economy, recoverable fighters or not even on "NORMAL".

Edited July 16, 2013 by StellarRat

[svidangel]

I think the basic problem is with the design of the entire invasion.

1. There "should" be more flights of alien craft that can be intercepted and... ground combatted? in order to make it feel like an overwhelming invasion.

2. Players that expand their reach and overall air power will always be able to intercept more of those flights.

3a. Balancing the economy for players that only intercept a few flights while developing their ground forces, vs those that intercept as many as possible by expanding their air-power will only be remotely possible if very little cash actually comes from running ground missions. Even so, expanding to more bases will keep more countries happy and will increase income in an economy based primarily on monthly income.

3b. Pretty sure I stated this elsewhere, but even economy aside, anyone who can shoot down more aliens will get into more ground combats, and as long as they keep people alive will have MUCH stronger troops stat-wise in the later months.

Attempting to balance this for players that understand how to get the most resources out of the game is shifting more and more of the players resources into air combat related areas. The more "difficult" it becomes to scrounge up money, and compete in the air mini-game, the more people will devote themselves entirely to that mini-game, which, in the end, controls all of our funding.

[StellarRat]

I think the basic problem is with the design of the entire invasion.

1. There "should" be more flights of alien craft that can be intercepted and... ground combatted? in order to make it feel like an overwhelming invasion.

2. Players that expand their reach and overall air power will always be able to intercept more of those flights.

3a. Balancing the economy for players that only intercept a few flights while developing their ground forces, vs those that intercept as many as possible by expanding their air-power will only be remotely possible if very little cash actually comes from running ground missions. Even so, expanding to more bases will keep more countries happy and will increase income in an economy based primarily on monthly income.

3b. Pretty sure I stated this elsewhere, but even economy aside, anyone who can shoot down more aliens will get into more ground combats, and as long as they keep people alive will have MUCH stronger troops stat-wise in the later months.

Attempting to balance this for players that understand how to get the most resources out of the game is shifting more and more of the players resources into air combat related areas. The more "difficult" it becomes to scrounge up money, and compete in the air mini-game, the more people will devote themselves entirely to that mini-game, which, in the end, controls all of our funding.

I agree that more ground combats might solve the problem, BUT, by the end of couple months I was wishing for less UFO shootdowns and less ground combat (in 18.3). There were just too many and it was getting tiresome. I bet I did 30 to 40 recoveries in that time span. I was strongly tempted to start skipping anything but the biggest prizes, but you can't really afford to that if you want more than one base under the current system. You pretty have to go to ALL of them. I bet you'd have to run 120+ ground combats to get to the end.

I think the better solution is reduce the number of incoming UFOs and give players MORE MONEY for alien bling OR by increasing national funding more for successful mission or both) for each recovery.

Edited July 17, 2013 by StellarRat

[svidangel]

I don't think more ground combats will solve any problem. Much the opposite; it is the potential of so many ground combats that makes players who expand their air coverage fastest, best able to deal with the financial aspects of the game.

One possibility would be, as you say, to reduce the number of incoming UFOs, but that would totally violate point 1, which I think they are really gunning for in the geoscape part of the game. I mean, if there are few enough that you can shoot them all down, it doesn't really feel like an overwhelming invasion right? If there are so many that you can't shoot them all down, we get stuck with air combat being a giant black hole for funding.

With the infinite plane thing, one choice might be instead of more small UFOs, put in far more dangerous UFOs at the beginning to give you that... "hunker down and try to nab a small UFO here and there" feeling, while not drastically punishing players who don't know which UFOs they can handle by way of... well, the infinite plane thing.

[svidangel]

Re-18.3 combats. Yeah, and the incredibly low number of alien species (basically 1, androns, trekkies and lizards aren't really all that different) doesn't help that at all. I don't think I'd mind it as much if there were more variation, and once more maps get added... and the AI adjusted for race? Maybe.

[StellarRat]

Re-18.3 combats. Yeah, and the incredibly low number of alien species (basically 1, androns, trekkies and lizards aren't really all that different) doesn't help that at all. I don't think I'd mind it as much if there were more variation, and once more maps get added... and the AI adjusted for race? Maybe.

That might help. But Chris stated the goal was to play a complete game in 40 missions or so. I'd say we're at double or triple that number right now. So, something has to change. I think less recovery missions is the best place to make the change.