Machine Guns and Accuracy

[ooey]

Since you can't designate between 2 points to fire at a group of aliens, Is it better to give a heavy MG to someone with a high accuracy rating (which means rounds will be directed down a tighter cone, more chance of killing individual aliens) or a low one (meaning that you are more likely to hit more of the group/cause them to be suppressed, which is what the MG is really for)? 

[bonerstorm]

On 11/18/2023 at 4:09 PM, ooey said:

Since you can't designate between 2 points to fire at a group of aliens, Is it better to give a heavy MG to someone with a high accuracy rating (which means rounds will be directed down a tighter cone, more chance of killing individual aliens) or a low one (meaning that you are more likely to hit more of the group/cause them to be suppressed, which is what the MG is really for)? 

Matter of taste.

I always have one Laser LMG Heavy on my midgame squad just in case I run into an eyeball cybertank thing. If the heavy is crouched and hasn't moved, it will destroy practically any one thing in LOS - especially if not in cover. Upgraded laser means it won't run out of ammo, it'll tear through cover and initial hits will strip armor for subsequent ones.

Edited November 22, 2023 by bonerstorm

[Conductiv]

I don't think low accuracy has any advantage here, as I don't think the spread bullets will have enough of an extra area to increase the number of suppressed targets, rendering the low accuracy line of thought moot.

high accuracy is helpful, even though the gun has a 0.4 multiplier it does increase its killing power and turns it into a "delete 1 thing" like bonerstorm states.

for its use, its a fairly reliable suppressing weapon with its 10 round burst on close to medium range, as such you can gamble on attempted kills in area's like UFO's and if it fails to kill, it often suppresses the target allowing others to follow up without requiring the use of a flashbang. 

[ooey]

Thing is, the HMG is supposed to be an suppressive weapon by its nature (which is a good thing as it is another weapon type). Allowing it to be aimed between 2 points would be a good way to represent this. Putting both aiming points on the same point would satisfy the accuracy part for a trooper with high accuracy. 

I suppose what I'm saying is should the HMG have the ability to aim between 2 points if you want to supress a group of aliens that are close to each other?

Sure, a flashbang will do the same thing, but at shorter range.

Edited November 24, 2023 by ooey

[Conductiv]

5 minutes ago, ooey said:

Thing is, the HMG is supposed to be an suppressive weapon by its nature (which is a good thing as it is another weapon type). Allowing it to be aimed between 2 points would be a good way to represent this. Putting both aiming points on the same point would satisfy the accuracy part for a trooper with high accuracy. 

I suppose what I'm saying is should the HMG have the ability to aim between 2 points if you want to supress a group of aliens that are close to each other?

Sure, a flashbang will do the same thing, but at shorter range.

I must have misunderstood the OP, I though the questions was: "is the MG better on high or low accuracy troops" with the reasoning for low accuracy being a larger suppression area. I didn't read a suggestion asking for a suppression cone on an MG. (reading "set 2 points" as the sides of the cone)

personally, if adding field suppression like that, I would have a pre-set cone and not allow the player to set it...it would also be the only fire mode on 10 rounds the weapon would have. with the reasoning being that most players wouldn't know why you wouldn't simply make the largest cone possible and then complain that the suppression doesn't actually suppress (as with an immense cone, you simply wouldn't have enough density of fire to trigger the suppression)  

personally, with how this game does its best to avoid setting stuff like cones, I wouldn't add this in atoll.

[gG-Unknown]

16 hours ago, ooey said:

Thing is, the HMG is supposed to be an suppressive weapon by its nature 

ability to aim between 2 points if you want to supress a group of aliens that are close to each other?

 

I agree idea, but lets keep UI as simple as possible.

add another fire mode which consumes 90% of TU, uses 15 ammo pieces, have fixed cone which  is visualised, and can not be used in over-watch. On top, each projectile has 10% bonus to suppression build up.

[ooey]

18 hours ago, Conductiv said:

I must have misunderstood the OP, I though the questions was: "is the MG better on high or low accuracy troops" with the reasoning for low accuracy being a larger suppression area. I didn't read a suggestion asking for a suppression cone on an MG. (reading "set 2 points" as the sides of the cone)

Ah no, you understood correctly. The question just evolved! I don't actually think it would take much to add a 2nd point to fire between for a suppressive weapon (perhaps it could be done via a mod). The idea just tends to make the MG more, well, flexible.

tbh I think you are both itching to play the finished product sooner rather than later; I tend to concur ;-).

Edited November 25, 2023 by ooey

[Komandos]

On 11/25/2023 at 6:31 PM, gG-Unknown said:

I agree idea, but lets keep UI as simple as possible.

The simplest interface has only one single button.

 

In the game "JA 2- 2.5", it was possible to designate a firing zone for a machine gun.

 

[delor]

  I really love the idea of giving HMGs an explicit "suppressive fire" mode that just had a guaranteed cone of suppression in addition to whatever damage it might land.

 

  HMGs feel kind of weird at the moment.  The basic DPS weapons of SG/rifle/sniper offer clear range/mobility/damage tradeoffs.  Explosives have a clear niche for AoE and dealing with cover and obstacles.  Pistols have a clear role as a secondary weapon for people who don't have a good primary DPS gun.

 

  HMGs, OTOH, have a weird mix of niches as unreliable suppression, unreliable cover removal, and situational DPS against huge targets.  If you give them a button that makes them act like flash grenades but in a long range cone then they get a more clear role as the thing that'll lay down suppression of clumped enemies at range.  The cone can also be quite narrow near the soldier, making flashbangs a better close range suppression.  (in addition to the fact that they're not taking up your primary weapon slot)

 

  Maybe they don't even need a separate button- just make it part of the "long burst" feature and render the suppression cone on the map while you're aiming.

Edited November 29, 2023 by delor

[ooey]

The 'clear and unique' role thing is a good idea all around. You don't want samey weapons doing samey things. Mind you, most of them are already clearly defined, as they were in Xen1. Like I said, this would give the HMG a unique selling point over a flash-bang (which doesn't cause much actual damage if it hits an alien, and also doesn't have the range  - you might get lucky and supress a unit way off in the distance with a HMG). Not sure if a Grenade causes too much suppression (it shouldn't really, since it 'detonates' altogether whereas a HMG fires over a longer period of time, allowing aliens to be supressed).

Edited December 1, 2023 by ooey