Xenonauts 2 feedback

[Rkraus]

A few thoughts from a guy who has played his share of X-com games (yes, back to the 90s). 
 

First, I love this game. Thank you so much for bring back a game with turn-based combat and lots to manage. That said, I have a few questions.

1. Should doors provide cover? If not, can we tweak the graphics so they open all the way up and do not block line-of-sight? 
2. I can take two jets to fight a UFO. So, why can’t I take two dropships on a mission? I feel like loads of cheap recruits is a perfectly viable (brutal) tactic.

3. Why don’t base missions start in the living quarters? Or anywhere else? It seems reasonable that some of your soldiers would be off-duty at any given moment, and having to quickly grab your gear and form a defensive line is part of the fun. 
4. Where do pilots live? In the plane? It seems odd that they don’t require living space or that they cannot level up the way other recruits can. 

[maxm222]

I noticed for the first time that an open door did not appear to slow down or stop an enemy shot.  Do you (or anyone) know if that's true of all doors in any position?  If I could use them as cover (I thought they were!) I'd be in favor of using them as cover, but if they are hinged and don't block LOS or weapon fire, I'd rather they open to a flat position against wall their hinges are on.

[Rkraus]

It’s true every time I’ve tried to use a door for cover. Anyone else notice this? 

[alex wilson]

Hello Devs:

Here's a short feedback from a few hours (I am on a 4th mission) into Xenonauts 2 (played the original Xenonauts and loved it).

1. The girl from Operations - she's breaking the magic for me when she tells me to "get on with it, Commander!" (or something like that) before one of the missions.  If I am the Commander, then she is my subordinate, isn't she?  Why is she yelling at me?  She also bickers with the Scientist Guy and I find her annoying.  I know it's 2023 and everything has to be woke but the game is set in 2009 (in pre-woke times) so can we have one game without the diversity and inclusion, please?  If the game is Early Access, it's not to late to re-write her lines or (it's on my Christmas list) write her out of the game entirely?

2. The UI: I still can't figure out how to assign multiple Research Projects - I hired more scientists but the Research view - for whatever reason - is unlike the other menu panels (Personnel, Engineering, Storage, etc.) which were ported intact from Xenonauts 1.  I may be the only person in the world saying this but I don't mind if you re-skin the original Xenonauts - the new graphics are clean looking and the game has this weird (compliment!) mix of looking fresh and the same (in a nostalgic kind of way).  This is a compliment: please make the Research menu like it was in Xenonauts 1 or - that is to say - the same as other menus.

3. The Cleaners is a nice idea but I don't understand the point of it: they're described as a group controlled (organized) by "several intelligence agencies" (sorry - quoting from memory).  It seems a bit contrived - the original Xenonauts was an international agency, funded by governments (UN?) to fight the UFO invasion.  How do these Cleaners fit into this?  I know that you're trying to introduce new game elements, so maybe this criticism is not fair and maybe in the later game Cleaners will make more sense to me...

4. The Geo view shows the funding counter increase with each passing day: I think in Xenonauts 1 this wasn't like that.  The new funding was allocated at the end of each month and I kind of like it better - it adds to tension in the game - not knowing how much (more or less?) money you'll get next month is a bit unsettling.  Here, seeing the money rolling in every day seems very gamey.

5. Music and sound effects are great.

6. Graphics are more polished and the improvements in aiming and shooting systems are nice.

That's all I have for now: please don't "dumb it down" and make the game more serious.  Xenonauts (I cannot be the only one saying this) had always had this feeling of nostalgia, especially that it was set in the 1980's (if I remember correctly) and the city maps kind of reflected that.  It would be great if you could localize (both geographically and time) the maps so the shops and cars look like they did in 2009.

The original game had this fleeting sense of creepiness to it (understandably so) and I am asking you to please make Xenonauts 2 at least as creepy as its predecessor!

[maxm222]

With the Research Projects: I'm assuming you're talking about researching multiple different areas (like a new weapon type and also new alien materials) at the same time?  If so, I don't think there is a way to do that.  Only one research project at a time.  If I'm wrong, someone tell me!  I'd like to research multiple areas simultaneously--although that would probably slow down all the projects even more.  More scientists = faster research, as far as I know.

I don't know what the exact command structure of the Xenos is, but I also find the Operations Director irritating, although not as irritating as many of the commanding officers in games who apparently think they have to sound like a nine-year-old's idea of a "hard-ass" CO.  I think it's difficult to get away from all the comic book cliches when writing military character dialogue, since the content of what they're saying is extremely limited ("Do this!  Stop that!  Faster!  You're an idiot!"), and the clever or different ways of saying any of those things were used up a long time ago.   
Also, I think the additional dialogue at the beginning of a mission is simply not needed or interesting--unless it is conveying information that the game doesn't give me in any other way and it's not cringe-worthy.  Come to think of it, why would the big chief wait until the ship is actually landing on the battlefield and subject to possible immediate attack to give last minute instructions or a pep talk to the commander?

The Chief Scientist is also a cliche: the aloof, irritable, arrogant guy who thinks anyone's ideas or instructions are mindless, unnecessary interruptions; I find that boy annoying also.

But of course, if the game has a comic book sensibility and is not a role-playing game, spending much development time on trying to create really humorous or interesting or profound dialogue for 2-dimensional characters when most of us are playing for the combat and strategic aspects, doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

[Komandos]

On 9/2/2023 at 7:58 PM, Rkraus said:

2. I can take two jets to fight a UFO. So, why can’t I take two dropships on a mission? I feel like loads of cheap recruits is a perfectly viable (brutal) tactic.

The developers of Xenonauts-2 have been asked many times to make the size of the tactical team the same as in the classic (original) UFO: 1-2-3.

The market is oversaturated with games where the player controls a tactical group of 1-2 squads. Tactics at the platoon (3-4-5) squad level are only available in old UFO games:1-2-3. And these old games are still popular.

By adding several tactical missions to the game, in which twice as many soldiers will participate (not 9-10-12, as usual, but 18-20-24 soldiers), this will make the battles more diverse and unlike each other. For example: the final battles; the assault on the alien base, the anti-terrorist battle - all these battles can be made more ambitious.

Xenonauts 2 has quite a lot of tactical battles, but they are very similar to each other. There are not enough battles of different scales.

[Twigg]

That sounds incredibly tedious. The maps can already feel a little small with a dozen soldiers and a dozen enemies, I can't imagine how cramped they would feel with double that number. I don't think xenonauts 2 works on the kind of scale you are looking for and there is at least one person who agrees with the developer's decision not to so many combatants on each side.

[cwamartin]

21 hours ago, alex wilson said:

Hello Devs:

Here's a short feedback from a few hours (I am on a 4th mission) into Xenonauts 2 (played the original Xenonauts and loved it).

1. The girl from Operations - she's breaking the magic for me when she tells me to "get on with it, Commander!" (or something like that) before one of the missions.  If I am the Commander, then she is my subordinate, isn't she?  Why is she yelling at me?  She also bickers with the Scientist Guy and I find her annoying.  I know it's 2023 and everything has to be woke but the game is set in 2009 (in pre-woke times) so can we have one game without the diversity and inclusion, please?  If the game is Early Access, it's not to late to re-write her lines or (it's on my Christmas list) write her out of the game entirely?

2. The UI: I still can't figure out how to assign multiple Research Projects - I hired more scientists but the Research view - for whatever reason - is unlike the other menu panels (Personnel, Engineering, Storage, etc.) which were ported intact from Xenonauts 1.  I may be the only person in the world saying this but I don't mind if you re-skin the original Xenonauts - the new graphics are clean looking and the game has this weird (compliment!) mix of looking fresh and the same (in a nostalgic kind of way).  This is a compliment: please make the Research menu like it was in Xenonauts 1 or - that is to say - the same as other menus.

3. The Cleaners is a nice idea but I don't understand the point of it: they're described as a group controlled (organized) by "several intelligence agencies" (sorry - quoting from memory).  It seems a bit contrived - the original Xenonauts was an international agency, funded by governments (UN?) to fight the UFO invasion.  How do these Cleaners fit into this?  I know that you're trying to introduce new game elements, so maybe this criticism is not fair and maybe in the later game Cleaners will make more sense to me...

4. The Geo view shows the funding counter increase with each passing day: I think in Xenonauts 1 this wasn't like that.  The new funding was allocated at the end of each month and I kind of like it better - it adds to tension in the game - not knowing how much (more or less?) money you'll get next month is a bit unsettling.  Here, seeing the money rolling in every day seems very gamey.

5. Music and sound effects are great.

6. Graphics are more polished and the improvements in aiming and shooting systems are nice.

That's all I have for now: please don't "dumb it down" and make the game more serious.  Xenonauts (I cannot be the only one saying this) had always had this feeling of nostalgia, especially that it was set in the 1980's (if I remember correctly) and the city maps kind of reflected that.  It would be great if you could localize (both geographically and time) the maps so the shops and cars look like they did in 2009.

The original game had this fleeting sense of creepiness to it (understandably so) and I am asking you to please make Xenonauts 2 at least as creepy as its predecessor!

I don't think there is any way to do more than one research project.

If you complete the Cleaner base missions you will get the full explanation of their origins.  I think it makes for a nice bit of variety to be up against humans early in the game as well as aliens. But I think it needs tweaked a little because you don't really have to do anything about them.  I would like to see the capture of one of the Cleaner leaders to be necessary to reveal the final base, and removing any Cleaner facility should reduce panic in the region to some degree.

I think the funding increase is what happens if you have engineers but you don't have engineering projects - the engineers busy themselves doing maintenance tasks around the base and thus save you money. 

 

By the way, I like the Ops officer! However, you can always ESC out of the dialogue if you find it annoying.  Maybe there could be an option on whether or not to have the dialogue at the start of missions but personally I find it is one of the things that give X2 a fresher feeling over X1

[Komandos]

3 hours ago, Twigg said:

and there is at least one person who agrees with the developer's decision not to so many combatants on each side.

You are inattentively reading the topic.

On 9/2/2023 at 7:58 PM, Rkraus said:

2. I can take two jets to fight a UFO. So, why can’t I take two dropships on a mission? I feel like loads of cheap recruits is a perfectly viable (brutal) tactic.

In classic UFO: 1-2 cards were even smaller, and the player could take 26 soldiers.

In OpenXcom mods, the player already has 36 soldiers (the map is still 60x60). Because the players like it that way.

[Twigg]

20 hours ago, Komandos said:

You are inattentively reading the topic.

In classic UFO: 1-2 cards were even smaller, and the player could take 26 soldiers.

In OpenXcom mods, the player already has 36 soldiers (the map is still 60x60). Because the players like it that way.

I think you are missing the forest for the trees somewhat. While there may be other reasons you can't take multiple dropships, one of them is that the game is designed with a certain number of xenonauts in mind and adding more significantly affects game balance. It is similar to why they changed the selling mechanics in the game because it was designed around doing a certain number of missions per wave and if you do significantly more you broke the games economy.

 

I am not saying that other games can't use more or less soldiers, I am saying that the developers of this game chose to use a certain number of soldiers, aliens, and a specific map size and I agree with how those choices work for this game. I am making a counterpoint to you and other players request to significantly blow up the count of soldiers available because it can be easy for the vocal minority to get its way when the silent majority are happy with the current situation.

[Komandos]

6 hours ago, Twigg said:

While there may be other reasons you can't take multiple dropships, one of them is that the game is designed with a certain number of xenonauts in mind and adding more significantly affects game balance.

A bad balance is when there is a "stress" mechanic in the game, which actually forces the player to maintain and train at least two tactical teams (for rotation and rest), and in the final game allows you to take only one tactical team.

The Final Battle (X1) was no different in scale (epic) from any other battle in the game, with the exception of constant enemy reinforcements.

In X2, it will also differ from the rest of the battles only by a large number of enemies, (so that it would be difficult to win on the first attempt) and that's it.

Due to the inherent (underlying) limitation on the maximum allowable number of soldiers, players will not be able to create a modification of the game, which in terms of tactics and scale of battles will resemble the classic UFO:1-2.

The gaming market is saturated with games with tactics at the level of 1-2 squads (maximum) . For example, the recently released Boldur Gate 3. Jagged Alliance 3.

There are no tactics at the platoon level now in any turn-based game, with the exception of the classic UFO:1-2 and "Battle Brothers" (especially with modification).

The assaults by UFO soldiers (in Xenonauts 1) were very monotonous and time-consuming. The player is tired of storming hundreds of the same UFOs.

 

The maximum number of soldiers in battle should be laid as a basis, focusing on the final battle, and not on those battles that the player will see many dozens.

Edited September 6, 2023 by Komandos

[Komandos]

4 hours ago, Twigg said:

I am making a counterpoint to you and other players request to significantly blow up the count of soldiers available because it can be easy for the vocal minority to get its way when the silent majority are happy with the current situation.

Most of the players are here because they liked the principles underlying tactical battles in the UFO game:1-2. , and not because they didn't like the principles underlying the tactics in UFO:1-2, and the players decided to look for games on a different basis.

[Twigg]

Let's agree to disagree on this one, neither of us are going to convince the other to change their mind and we have both made our point as to why our preferred squad size is better. It is down to Chris and his team to create the 'best' game for as many players as possible and I wish them the best of luck on that difficult task.