Medkit idea

[Ogilvy the Astronomer]

Here's an idea, inspired by @Vitruviansquid's medical module suggestion mentioned here.

Currently, medkits / advanced medkits are sufficiently small, light, and useful that I give every Xenonaut one. Do you do the same? I wonder if it would be more interesting if medkits were changed to be heavy and big -- perhaps taking up 4x5 of the tactical vest, leaving just one row for some ammo clips and grenades. This would lead to a medic role / loadout, alongside rifleman, assault, etc. There could be a new type of equipment -- bandages -- that are small and light, so more easily carried by all members of a team. Bandages could stop bleeding, but not heal any HPs.

Currently I know that if a soldier gets injured, everyone's got a medkit so they could heal themselves, or be healed by a nearby buddy, so it's not really something I think about. My suggested change would lead to more interesting loadout choices and squad tactics for a player.

It could also tie into the current, slightly confusing, game mechanic where dead Xenonauts are corpses, but actually have a chance to survive a mission and fully recover after a long time back at HQ. Maybe dead Xenonauts stay dead, unless someone with a medkit gets to them within x turns and uses the medkit to stabalise them, giving them a x% chance of surviving. This could lead to come very cool and heroic stories where a Xenonaut carries their "dead" comrade to the medic to get them stabalised in the nick of time. It would also make the soldier's survival more dependent on a player's actions rather than the roll of a dice (which I think is how it works at the moment?) Advanced medkits could increase the turn limit and / or percentage chance of survival.

Hopefully it wouldn't be too difficult a change for the developers to make. It would make the game more difficult, but that could be balanced with a bit of thought. Perhaps these new-style medkits could heal more damage than the current ones.

 

 

[Alienkiller]

Of course you can change that, to integrate an Field-Doc or similar. But why the Devs and Main-Beta-Testers should do it? To exclude the ocassion / normal Gamers and only make it for Experts / Veterans. That´s not our Stile, we wanna have every Gamer in that Game. So the existing System is very good like it was in old X-COM and is in UFO ET. So every player have to use his Brain with following Infos:

- The Sani-Bag is already heavy and TU-Consuming.

- Not all Soldiers can carry it already (like the HMG, Grenadiers, Shields f.e.)

- And you can make an Medic Soldier already manually if you whish

 

Edited August 8, 2023 by Alienkiller

[Ogilvy the Astronomer]

50 minutes ago, Alienkiller said:

- The Sani-Bag is already heavy and TU-Consuming.

I didn't find they were particularly heavy or TU consuming. Advanced medkit: weight 15, 12 TUs to use.

 

50 minutes ago, Alienkiller said:

- Not all Soldiers can carry it already (like the HMG, Grenadiers, Shields f.e.)

I gave it to all my soldiers, including HMG, Grenadiers, Shields.

 

54 minutes ago, Alienkiller said:

- And you can make an Medic Soldier already manually if you whish

I'm not sure of your point here. You can give anyone a medkit? I'm suggesting an alternative approach which could be more interesting.

 

1 hour ago, Alienkiller said:

Of course you can change that, to integrate an Field-Doc or similar. But why the Devs and Main-Beta-Testers should do it? To exclude the ocassion / normal Gamers and only make it for Experts / Veterans. That´s not our Stile, we wanna have every Gamer in that Game.

I'm not sure it would only make it for veteran players. If you're referring to difficulty, I gave some examples of how it could be balanced. I'm sure there are many more.

[SoulFilcher]

Medkits should not heal, only stop bleeding. Considering how slow soldier heal back in base with the proper structure for that it feels very unrealistic to heal a lot of HP from a single medkit use. Or at least the initial medkit shouldn't and that could be unlocked later using alien tech. But then again, if you can create a medkit that does that, the same tech should totally allow soldiers to be healed instantly in base, which I think is not the goal.

[Ogilvy the Astronomer]

37 minutes ago, SoulFilcher said:

Medkits should not heal, only stop bleeding. Considering how slow soldier heal back in base with the proper structure for that it feels very unrealistic to heal a lot of HP from a single medkit use. Or at least the initial medkit shouldn't and that could be unlocked later using alien tech. But then again, if you can create a medkit that does that, the same tech should totally allow soldiers to be healed instantly in base, which I think is not the goal.

I think that the current system of healing some HP in the field but needing a long time back at base might not be realistic but works well from a gameplay perspective. My suggestion does make things a little more realistic, in that bandages would only stop bleeding, and more specialist equipment would be needed for actual field medic work.

[Alienkiller]

I say it directly: The System is good as it is and for everyone since the last 3,5 Decades understandable (from the Veteran to the unaware Gamer). That´s why this System didn´t get changed since 3,5 Decades as it works perfect as an famous quote give us: "Never change a perfect running System."

That System get used for all Strategic-Games of different Gernes with the same Basic-Component (no 100% HP again if you don´t have Hospitals / a long Healing-Rest etc., with every hit the HPs reduce to evtl. RIP and you can only heal what is left); the big difference is that in more realistic Games the HPs are not limited to max. 75% HP Combat-Healing and for the Anti-Alien-Gerne are limited to maximum 75% Combat Healing.

You can spin it like you whish, you will ever get the same outcome. The Soldier get his Wounds healed, so that no Blood runs out until she / he didn´t get hit again. The big difference from Xenonauts 1 / 2 and JA-Row to all other Games is the following: The Soldiers can heal themselfs, which you can´t in old / new XCOM, Phoenix Point and the other Games which are to much to list.

 

Short said: In differnent Games you have the best Healing-System since the 1990s. An better one you won´t get, dosen´t matter what the Developers over the last 3 Decades have tried already and still try in such Gernes during Development!

Edited August 9, 2023 by Alienkiller

[doubleskulls]

I'll generally have about 1/3 of the squad equipped with medikits, so I try and ensure that each sub-team has a medikit in it in. IMO avoiding getting hit is crucial. Medikits are contingency against getting hit, but if everyone has them then that means fewer flashbangs or smoke grenades which could stop the person being wounded in the first place.  

I'd be uncertain about having a dedicated medic role so there were fewer medikits around. Having 1/3 of my squad medics would presumably unbalance the firepower etc, and having fewer medics around would potentially lead more deaths as it would be harder to ensure I can get to someone in time. 

18 hours ago, SoulFilcher said:

Medkits should not heal, only stop bleeding. Considering how slow soldier heal back in base with the proper structure for that it feels very unrealistic to heal a lot of HP from a single medkit use. 

I believe that healed HP in tactical does not affect the recovery time back at base. I could be wrong though. You can only heal back around half of the damage too. 

Edited August 9, 2023 by doubleskulls

[Ogilvy the Astronomer]

1 hour ago, doubleskulls said:

I'll generally have about 1/3 of the squad equipped with medikits, so I try and ensure that each sub-team has a medikit in it in. IMO avoiding getting hit is crucial. Medikits are contingency against getting hit, but if everyone has them then that means fewer flashbangs or smoke grenades which could stop the person being wounded in the first place.  

Now this is an interesting point you've touched upon: using the existing system we've each come up with different strategies. After reading this I can see that my idea might give with one hand (potentially be more interesting on the battlefield) but take with the other (limit strategic options). I still think my ideas have merit, and I might personally prefer the situations they'd allow, but maybe they wouldn't be to everyone's taste. In any case, I think lots of valid points have been made and if the devs read this thread then they can take from it what they want!

[Ogilvy the Astronomer]

3 hours ago, Alienkiller said:

I say it directly: The System is good as it is and for everyone since the last 3,5 Decades understandable (from the Veteran to the unaware Gamer). That´s why this System didn´t get changed since 3,5 Decades as it works perfect as an famous quote give us: "Never change a perfect running System."

That System get used for all Strategic-Games of different Gernes with the same Basic-Component (no 100% HP again if you don´t have Hospitals / a long Healing-Rest etc., with every hit the HPs reduce to evtl. RIP and you can only heal what is left); the big difference is that in more realistic Games the HPs are not limited to max. 75% HP Combat-Healing and for the Anti-Alien-Gerne are limited to maximum 75% Combat Healing.

You can spin it like you whish, you will ever get the same outcome. The Soldier get his Wounds healed, so that no Blood runs out until she / he didn´t get hit again. The big difference from Xenonauts 1 / 2 and JA-Row to all other Games is the following: The Soldiers can heal themselfs, which you can´t in old / new XCOM, Phoenix Point and the other Games which are to much to list.

 

Short said: In differnent Games you have the best Healing-System since the 1990s. An better one you won´t get, dosen´t matter what the Developers over the last 3 Decades have tried already and still try in such Gernes during Development!

I don't think it's particularly useful to declare that a system is perfect so shouldn't be changed. That doesn't really encourage innovative thinking.

[Vitruviansquid]

I don't know what the specifics should be, about whether healing should be limited or heavy or have trade-offs or anything, but I just think it'd be more interesting if it was not so possible for every soldier to be able to bring their own healing.

[Chthon]

In real militaries, every soldier carries a battlefield bandage and compress in their tactical vest capable of stopping bleeding from a typical gunshot wound or grenade. Only a medic carries a full medkit.

This game does not model 2 things: Medkits have supplies that can run out, and they can be limited in what they can heal. Instead they are abstracted.

As such, I'm not advocating to making 2 different kinds of medkits like in real life, nor making them run out of supplies like they did in many XCOM games. The way it is now feels fine. If you want to spend weight on a medkit you can, or you can bring an extra grenade on a soldier. It's your choice.

[cman1983]

In x1 the med kit ran down on percentages of the heal and ran out after 2 3 heals and sometimes had to use others or put 2 onto a new role soldier called medic 

But since the new 1a seem limitless and the new upgrade module they seem more pointless

[SoulFilcher]

Having a dedicated medic role in your squadron would be much more acceptable if said squadron didn't start with a max of 9 soldiers in my opinion. The same goes for other niche roles.