New player feedback

[Shadooow]

Hello, playing Xenonauts last  4 days and I like this game a lot. Wanted to give you some feedback.

First of all, my background. I bought Xenonauts 2 after massive disappointment from Jagged Alliance 3. I never played any of the X-COM games, only Jagged Alliance 2 which game I love. I was even participating on a development of the 1.13 mod which improves it massively.

 

Ok so, love the graphic, music!, plot and all those lore texts. I love the tactical mode, much more than in JA3 where it is annoying as hell.

I didn't encounter many bugs so far, I think the only issue ever was that one of the UFO extraction combat didn't save at 1st turn automatically and because I lost many soldiers (2 times in row) I had to load an automatic save from the geomap where I was asked what I want to do with that crashed UFO. Now, what is interesting is that each of this reload completely changed the map - I am not sure if that is intended or good thing. Maybe the map should be chosen already when the UFO crashes?

Overall the game is very fun and elaborated, I won't list all the good stuff that I like, the list would be too long. So here is the list of things which I didn't like or which seemed wrong to me:

 

1. Loading times. Loading times are very long. I have some other applications running simultaneously and playing Xenonauts in window mode and on my i3-8100 3.60Ghz / 16MB RAM computer takes over 2 minutes, maybe even more. This needs improvement. At least loading of a save of the same type should be made faster, ie. if I am in tactical mode and load up old turn it should load faster than if I loaded game saved on geomap.

2. Pathing via windows. Soldiers loves taking shortcuts via windows breaking them and jumping through them. This doesn't make sense. Of course it is great that the game allows to break/jump through window, however it shouldn't be faster than entering via door 2 tiles away. Likewise it doesn't make sense for enemies (Cleaners specifically) to break the windows of their base to come at me.

3. CtH / Obstacles. I am always trying to cover behind some obstacles and put soldier into crouched position, but it doesn't seem to work. Enemies are hitting me extremely reliably and for ton of hitpoints. Especially the first UFO with magnetic weapons are hitting everything from any range and almost always oneshotting my soldiers. I suppose that this is intended, their weapons are supposed to be strong, but even when fighting cleaners, the only working strategy was to hide behind wall, never behind anything smaller than half the Z weight.

4. One more remark about obstacles, opened doors doesn't seem to provide any cover and can be shoot through and my soldiers can see enemies through them.

5. Lastly, difficulty. I chosen Soldier difficulty and despite I have experiences with turn-based games, namely Jagged Alliance I find the tactical battles extremely hard. I am going to replay it on the lowest difficulty, because I just can't clear the Cleaner base. I reloaded so many times, but once the 7th round hits it becomes impossible to finish the mission. This is because every single round spawns 4 new soldiers on map, 2 from each side. So if the player doesn't kill/stun the leader before there is no chance to finish I feel. Especially thanks to above point 3 where enemies are hitting me far more likely than I can hit them from much bigger distance where I can't even see them (was night map, they saw me without flares, I need flares to see them).

6. Oh and I forgot abut civilians - that the random civilians wander aimlessly is fine I guess, but civilians which I liberated from the pods should move into my ship, not wander aimlessly and even move towards enemies. That being said, thanks to that I didn't lose soldiers lol.

 

In my opinion, the limits or rather the round thresholds where enemies get reinforcements or where captured civilians get killed/whatever should be set much higher than the minimal number of rounds needed to do it depends on a difficulty. Maybe it is already the case of course, I only tried one difficulty so far. Additionally, at lower difficulties, it should be possible to brute force the mission through reinforcements. Let player to deal with them and give him more time. Meaning that the reinforcements shouldn't spawn each round but say every 4th round at easiest, 3rd at soldier, 2nd at the 3rd difficulty and each round on hardest difficulty.

As I come from JA2 I lack progress here. Enemies are using assault rifles from day 1 and are sniping my team with them with incredible accuracy. I would expect the difficulty to ramp up slightly over time, but maybe I am just expecting a different game. It is also possible that I play this wrong trying to save everyone and not accepting my soldiers dying. If that is the case then the high difficulty comes from that expectation of mine that I should finish the mission with all soldiers alive.

Related to that, I don't see much of a point of assault type of soldiers. They are risking too much and even when getting close, have low CtH (because they spend half or more time points on movement) so they are almost always dying or at lest taking heavy damage in my gameplay. I need to try with just a riflemen and snipers along with 2 shield holders.

Edited July 22, 2023 by Shadooow

[Skitso]

2 hours ago, Shadooow said:

Hello, playing Xenonauts last  4 days and I like this game a lot. Wanted to give you some feedback.

First of all, my background. I bought Xenonauts 2 after massive disappointment from Jagged Alliance 3. I never played any of the X-COM games, only Jagged Alliance 2 which game I love. I was even participating on a development of the 1.13 mod which improves it massively.

 

Ok so, love the graphic, music!, plot and all those lore texts. I love the tactical mode, much more than in JA3 where it is annoying as hell.

I didn't encounter many bugs so far, I think the only issue ever was that one of the UFO extraction combat didn't save at 1st turn automatically and because I lost many soldiers (2 times in row) I had to load an automatic save from the geomap where I was asked what I want to do with that crashed UFO. Now, what is interesting is that each of this reload completely changed the map - I am not sure if that is intended or good thing. Maybe the map should be chosen already when the UFO crashes?

Overall the game is very fun and elaborated, I won't list all the good stuff that I like, the list would be too long. So here is the list of things which I didn't like or which seemed wrong to me:

 

1. Loading times. Loading times are very long. I have some other applications running simultaneously and playing Xenonauts in window mode and on my i3-8100 3.60Ghz / 16MB RAM computer takes over 2 minutes, maybe even more. This needs improvement. At least loading of a save of the same type should be made faster, ie. if I am in tactical mode and load up old turn it should load faster than if I loaded game saved on geomap.

2. Pathing via windows. Soldiers loves taking shortcuts via windows breaking them and jumping through them. This doesn't make sense. Of course it is great that the game allows to break/jump through window, however it shouldn't be faster than entering via door 2 tiles away. Likewise it doesn't make sense for enemies (Cleaners specifically) to break the windows of their base to come at me.

3. CtH / Obstacles. I am always trying to cover behind some obstacles and put soldier into crouched position, but it doesn't seem to work. Enemies are hitting me extremely reliably and for ton of hitpoints. Especially the first UFO with magnetic weapons are hitting everything from any range and almost always oneshotting my soldiers. I suppose that this is intended, their weapons are supposed to be strong, but even when fighting cleaners, the only working strategy was to hide behind wall, never behind anything smaller than half the Z weight.

4. One more remark about obstacles, opened doors doesn't seem to provide any cover and can be shoot through and my soldiers can see enemies through them.

5. Lastly, difficulty. I chosen Soldier difficulty and despite I have experiences with turn-based games, namely Jagged Alliance I find the tactical battles extremely hard. I am going to replay it on the lowest difficulty, because I just can't clear the Cleaner base. I reloaded so many times, but once the 7th round hits it becomes impossible to finish the mission. This is because every single round spawns 4 new soldiers on map, 2 from each side. So if the player doesn't kill/stun the leader before there is no chance to finish I feel. Especially thanks to above point 3 where enemies are hitting me far more likely than I can hit them from much bigger distance where I can't even see them (was night map, they saw me without flares, I need flares to see them).

6. Oh and I forgot abut civilians - that the random civilians wander aimlessly is fine I guess, but civilians which I liberated from the pods should move into my ship, not wander aimlessly and even move towards enemies. That being said, thanks to that I didn't lose soldiers lol.

 

In my opinion, the limits or rather the round thresholds where enemies get reinforcements or where captured civilians get killed/whatever should be set much higher than the minimal number of rounds needed to do it depends on a difficulty. Maybe it is already the case of course, I only tried one difficulty so far. Additionally, at lower difficulties, it should be possible to brute force the mission through reinforcements. Let player to deal with them and give him more time. Meaning that the reinforcements shouldn't spawn each round but say every 4th round at easiest, 3rd at soldier, 2nd at the 3rd difficulty and each round on hardest difficulty.

As I come from JA2 I lack progress here. Enemies are using assault rifles from day 1 and are sniping my team with them with incredible accuracy. I would expect the difficulty to ramp up slightly over time, but maybe I am just expecting a different game. It is also possible that I play this wrong trying to save everyone and not accepting my soldiers dying. If that is the case then the high difficulty comes from that expectation of mine that I should finish the mission with all soldiers alive.

Related to that, I don't see much of a point of assault type of soldiers. They are risking too much and even when getting close, have low CtH (because they spend half or more time points on movement) so they are almost always dying or at lest taking heavy damage in my gameplay. I need to try with just a riflemen and snipers along with 2 shield holders.

In xcom styled games, it's completely normal and even expected to lose few soldiers in every battle. They are MUCH more expendable than, say, in Jagged Aliance. So that is probably the reason you feel the game is too difficult while iit really isn't. New reqruits cost almost nothing.

[Shadooow]

6 hours ago, Skitso said:

In xcom styled games, it's completely normal and even expected to lose few soldiers in every battle. They are MUCH more expendable than, say, in Jagged Aliance. So that is probably the reason you feel the game is too difficult while iit really isn't. New reqruits cost almost nothing

Ah okay that will be it. I thought there will be some issues if I lose too many soldiers, if there are none then I was playing it wrong.

That being said, replayed the game on lowest difficulty, the second tactical mission where we encounter the reptilian type of aliens, I moved my shield soldier close to alien on left side, shot him once with over 70% CtH, that was a miss. That gave the enemy overwatch - another alien from opposite direction from super long range hit me for 50 into backs, that made my soldier to turn 180° (and rotate to the alien he was shooting at by backs) and then the alien I was shooting at finished this soldier. So now I know I am expected to lose a few soldiers every battle, but this feels too harsh.

Especially when the reptilian alien is supposed to have short vision, thats why I ran towards 5 tiles of alien on the left, so the alien on the right is too far from me...

Edited July 22, 2023 by Shadooow

[Skitso]

8 minutes ago, Shadooow said:

Ah okay that will be it. I thought there will be some issues if I lose too many soldiers, if there are none then I was playing it wrong.

That being said, replayed the game on lowest difficulty, the second tactical mission where we encounter the reptilian type of aliens, I moved my shield soldier close to alien on left side, shot him once with over 70% CtH, that was a miss. That gave the enemy overwatch - another alien from opposite direction from super long range hit me for 50 into backs, that made my soldier to turn 180° (and rotate to the alien he was shooting at by backs) and then the alien I was shooting at finished this soldier. So now I know I am expected to lose a few soldiers every battle, but this feels too harsh.

Especially when the reptilian alien is supposed to have short vision, thats why I ran towards 5 tiles of alien on the left, so the alien on the right is too far from me...

Don't worry. These little stories inside the game are what makes it so memorable. Tough situations where you lose a lot of good soldiers, but you still somehow manage to push through against the odds, are some of the finest gaming moments for me.

[Skitso]

There's even a medal that is awarded for soldiers that survive a mission where more than half of your units die.

[Shadooow]

4 minutes ago, Skitso said:

There's even a medal that is awarded for soldiers that survive a mission where more than half of your units die.

Oh I want that medal!

[Chris]

17 hours ago, Shadooow said:

Hello, playing Xenonauts last  4 days and I like this game a lot. Wanted to give you some feedback.

First of all, my background. I bought Xenonauts 2 after massive disappointment from Jagged Alliance 3. I never played any of the X-COM games, only Jagged Alliance 2 which game I love. I was even participating on a development of the 1.13 mod which improves it massively.

 

Ok so, love the graphic, music!, plot and all those lore texts. I love the tactical mode, much more than in JA3 where it is annoying as hell.

I didn't encounter many bugs so far, I think the only issue ever was that one of the UFO extraction combat didn't save at 1st turn automatically and because I lost many soldiers (2 times in row) I had to load an automatic save from the geomap where I was asked what I want to do with that crashed UFO. Now, what is interesting is that each of this reload completely changed the map - I am not sure if that is intended or good thing. Maybe the map should be chosen already when the UFO crashes?

Overall the game is very fun and elaborated, I won't list all the good stuff that I like, the list would be too long. So here is the list of things which I didn't like or which seemed wrong to me:

 

1. Loading times. Loading times are very long. I have some other applications running simultaneously and playing Xenonauts in window mode and on my i3-8100 3.60Ghz / 16MB RAM computer takes over 2 minutes, maybe even more. This needs improvement. At least loading of a save of the same type should be made faster, ie. if I am in tactical mode and load up old turn it should load faster than if I loaded game saved on geomap.

2. Pathing via windows. Soldiers loves taking shortcuts via windows breaking them and jumping through them. This doesn't make sense. Of course it is great that the game allows to break/jump through window, however it shouldn't be faster than entering via door 2 tiles away. Likewise it doesn't make sense for enemies (Cleaners specifically) to break the windows of their base to come at me.

3. CtH / Obstacles. I am always trying to cover behind some obstacles and put soldier into crouched position, but it doesn't seem to work. Enemies are hitting me extremely reliably and for ton of hitpoints. Especially the first UFO with magnetic weapons are hitting everything from any range and almost always oneshotting my soldiers. I suppose that this is intended, their weapons are supposed to be strong, but even when fighting cleaners, the only working strategy was to hide behind wall, never behind anything smaller than half the Z weight.

4. One more remark about obstacles, opened doors doesn't seem to provide any cover and can be shoot through and my soldiers can see enemies through them.

5. Lastly, difficulty. I chosen Soldier difficulty and despite I have experiences with turn-based games, namely Jagged Alliance I find the tactical battles extremely hard. I am going to replay it on the lowest difficulty, because I just can't clear the Cleaner base. I reloaded so many times, but once the 7th round hits it becomes impossible to finish the mission. This is because every single round spawns 4 new soldiers on map, 2 from each side. So if the player doesn't kill/stun the leader before there is no chance to finish I feel. Especially thanks to above point 3 where enemies are hitting me far more likely than I can hit them from much bigger distance where I can't even see them (was night map, they saw me without flares, I need flares to see them).

6. Oh and I forgot abut civilians - that the random civilians wander aimlessly is fine I guess, but civilians which I liberated from the pods should move into my ship, not wander aimlessly and even move towards enemies. That being said, thanks to that I didn't lose soldiers lol.

 

In my opinion, the limits or rather the round thresholds where enemies get reinforcements or where captured civilians get killed/whatever should be set much higher than the minimal number of rounds needed to do it depends on a difficulty. Maybe it is already the case of course, I only tried one difficulty so far. Additionally, at lower difficulties, it should be possible to brute force the mission through reinforcements. Let player to deal with them and give him more time. Meaning that the reinforcements shouldn't spawn each round but say every 4th round at easiest, 3rd at soldier, 2nd at the 3rd difficulty and each round on hardest difficulty.

As I come from JA2 I lack progress here. Enemies are using assault rifles from day 1 and are sniping my team with them with incredible accuracy. I would expect the difficulty to ramp up slightly over time, but maybe I am just expecting a different game. It is also possible that I play this wrong trying to save everyone and not accepting my soldiers dying. If that is the case then the high difficulty comes from that expectation of mine that I should finish the mission with all soldiers alive.

Related to that, I don't see much of a point of assault type of soldiers. They are risking too much and even when getting close, have low CtH (because they spend half or more time points on movement) so they are almost always dying or at lest taking heavy damage in my gameplay. I need to try with just a riflemen and snipers along with 2 shield holders.

Thanks for writing all this out. It's nice to know that you've enjoyed the game - and although I'm definitely looking forward to playing JA3 when things calm down, I can understand people's frustrations that it doesn't seem to be the faithful successor to JA2 that a lot of people wanted.

For the loading times, if you can install the game on a faster hard drive then that will hugely speed up loading times. But yes, we are planning to optimise it - a lot of people have complained about the loading times.

I think you're also correct that players should be able to brute force through enemy reinforcements (and this is something we've changed in a recent patch). And it's a bit surprising to hear a JA2 veteran finds the combat a bit too difficult - although part of the problem is that you were fighting a night mission, which can be notoriously difficult. We'll have to think a bit more about how to balance those.

But yes, the point Skitso makes is also valid - unlike JA2, the soldiers in Xenonauts are relatively expendable until they become valuable veterans. Especially at the start of the game before you have good armour!

[Shadooow]

33 minutes ago, Chris said:

But yes, the point Skitso makes is also valid - unlike JA2, the soldiers in Xenonauts are relatively expendable until they become valuable veterans. Especially at the start of the game before you have good armour!

Hi, good to hear from a dev.

 

I think that this is main reason for my struggles. I was trying to not to lose anyone. Therefore I played it as safe as possible, not rushing into choke points - not sacrificing soldiers so that the enemies inside spend their overwatch so I can rush in with rest, and also playing the battles on multiple fronts because I didn't know where my target (cleaner leader) is. And with that style those 7 rounds were not sufficient at all which became unplayble when reinforcements started coming each round.

Once the player knows where to go, I suspect the battle is perfectly doable in 7 rounds especially if one is prepared to make sacrifices. Still that seem to be too tight time schedule on second difficulty and could definitely use some loosening, at least on lower difficulties. With this clutch schedule it feels way too linear.

Edited July 22, 2023 by Shadooow

[Cik]

I think half cover could stand to be a little better. The cleaners especially seem to have absolutely no problems hitting people in it. Ultimately you can only use the cover the game gives you (shields work to some extent but shielding your way out of a surrounded position on some of the cleaners missions is borderline impossible)

 

it is a little odd that taking cover is more or less totally suboptimal, because the optimal strategy is to move out of total cover - fire - move back into total cover. breaking LOS is really the way to play as much as you can, because only very long range (ex against sebillians) and LOS blocks really save you from return fire.

[Twigg]

I feel like the point of these timed mission is to force the player away from the standard slow and steady gameplay style. It is way too easy to slowly crawl up the map killing things as they pop up and 80-90% of missions let you do exactly that. I wish the game rewarded players more for being more aggressive with their positioning and timing to help mitigate this.

[Solver]

Having also enjoyed Jagged Alliance 2 years ago, the expendability of soldiers is a major difference compared to Xcom series. In the original X-Com, you could have 14 soldiers in the first dropship so a few would die and leave you with enough of a force. In Xenonauts, you have saner amounts of troops but losing 1-2 per mission is completely fine. One Laser Rifle costs as much as five recruits (plus materials). Keep replacing soldiers as you lose them, and you'll end up with a core of excellent veterans who have done multiple missions, they're the valuable ones.