The new shield system "game feel" and how to potentially improve it

[Kamehamehayes]

I really like the new shield system and I believe that shields are more powerful now than they were before because the extra armor they provide is useful throughout the entire mission while the old ones seen in Xen 1 only work for a portion of the mission and are much less effective as they game carries one, making them pretty weak come lategame/endgame.

However, one thing I did notice throughout my playthroughs of the September demo and the Open beta and reading others' posts was that it feels really bad to use shields in the current version of Xen 2. Many new players I've seen are confused about the system and believe that the previous model for using shields was superior gameplaywise. I think this is inherently a "game feel" problem and not an issue with the actual balance of the game itself. As I said, I think shields are better now than they were before using the previous model. I feel that the issue with the shield's "game feel" is the main cause of the critiques made by people here and on the steam forums and should be addressed asap. I do have a couple ideas that may allow for a better game feel for shields overall. 

1. I think that the damage text needs to be different when the shot is blocked as opposed to when it is not. The damage text currently is in red text. However, I think there should be two lines of text when the shot is blocked. The first line is in red text showing the damage done if the shield did not block it, and the second text should be white with the word (blocked) next to the real damage value accounting for the shield, so this will show that the shield is working properly and how it works is obvious at a glance without the need for a tutorial or excessive confusion. (I might try and show this later in a picture/diagram)

2. The primary weakness the shield users do have in Xen 2 currently is that shield users can also bleed out while after taking damage like any other unit would, so the chance of a shield user getting a bleeding wound should be significantly reduced (by half maybe) to make tanking more effective and to show the player that shields are essential for tanking. (You can potentially label this as a passive skill of the shield called "reduced bleeding" or "bleeding reduction" or something around those lines)

3. Tangentially related to shields, but the secondary weapons of shields are rather weak imo. Stun batons are good, but the recent tu usage nerfs reduces their effectiveness, I would never consider using a stun gun because the stun damage and ammo capacity and accuracy is so low, and regular pistols are underwhelming in both the damage and the accuracy department. I feel like buffing the damage and ammo capacity of the stun gun and buffing the damage/effective range/accuracy of regular pistols could allow for players to take the considerations of using a shield more seriously. 

I would also ask for other beta testers and people who played the recent demo to share their thoughts about this as well as I feel it is important to maintain and better this shield model as opposed to the old one as I think there is a lot of potential for this shield model yet. 

[asdfcyber]

I definitely agree on #1, I said the same thing in my feedback post a while ago ("Instead of not showing anything when damage is all absorbed by armour, it would be very nice if it was shown but in grey/white (as opposed to red). And if a shot connects but has no effect at all, perhaps it could say ‘resist’."). #2 also makes sense to me. Not sure if I agree on #3 though, I didn't really have a problem with that. I would like knife upgrades though.

[Alienkiller]

It´s an new Armor-System like it get used in old X-Com, similar Fan-Projects and UFO ET-Series. Old is not bad, if it get integrated with the new technological Features correctly.

Xenonauts 1 and the prevoius Beta-Versions (before that nessecarry new Armor-System get integrated) had 1 big Problem: You get hit and lost every Protection. Then your Soldiers had only 1 Chance and that you don´t wanna hear (FLEEING)!

 

To make you understandable the old but very cool 1990-Armor-System with the best new Features here the shortform:

1. Xenonauts 1 = 1 Hit every Protection destroyed, 2nd Hit Soldier Dead!

2. Xeonauts 2 Betatests before Refited Armor-System: Same as Point 1!

 

The new Protection System is working differently now. Read exactly the Weapon-Infos and the Armor-Protection Infos (Ingame-Feature). The Armor will everytime be lesser then the maximum Hit Potential of the Standard-Weapons / advanced Weapons, dosen´t matter you have Cevlar, Alien Fiber or whatever Material. That´s why you have to use all extra Second-Protection you get have to use (Nature, Walls etc.). 

You get the Hit which get absorved by the Protection / Protections first and then it belongs where you get hit. Legs, Arms, Torso or Head. If you get lucky you get only an light hit, if you get unlucky an hard or deadly hit.

That fighting System is realistic, because you don´t use the normal Standard-Ammo which get blocked by Cevlar, Hardended Steal & Co. You use the Special-Ammo (AP-Breaking) to fight the Aliens. The same the Aliens and the Cleaners are doing to your Friends as well as own Soldiers.  

Means in Short: Your Shield / Armor-Vest / Armor-Plate reduce the maximum Damage the Bullet / Energy-Weapon can do. The remaining Damage hit the Soldier directly. With every hit the Armor / Shield-Protection reduce Step by Step too, which means your Protection is with every new hit lesser then before.

 

If you get very unlucky the Aliens / Cleaners can destroy the Cover / Shield (Standard or Upgraded) / normal Armor (Standard or Upgraded) with 1 Shot. That can happen about the advanced Tech the Aliens have over you. I had that very seldom and the Soldiers get hit very badly or died.

Edited February 8, 2023 by Alienkiller

[Krydax]

In addition to OPs original thoughts, I think armor in general should reduce bleed chance. With the percentage of the shot that is absorbed by armor being translated into some amount of bleed chance reduction. With it being 100% bleed chance reduction somewhere around 50-75% damage absorption.

[Kamehamehayes]

I saw something on the steam forums that I think should be considered as well. 

4. Add a new action for the shield that costs some amount of tus but allows the shield to protect the soldier more than it would normally. Say that using 50% of one's tus will allow for the shield to give double the armor it normally does. So it is an expensive ability that would increase a soldier's survivability by a lot at the cost of most of their tus (and potentially the rest of their turn depending on how it is balanced). 

I'm going to collect some data to see just how effective shields actually are to objectively see how effective they are (compared to no shield). 

[Alienkiller]

@Kamehamehayes: You can´t double the Protection, dosen´t matter what you do. The Armour get wearing on the Torso and Head (Cevlar-Vest and Helmet, Warden-Vest and Helmet as well as the Guardian Armor and Helmet). With the Shield it´s the same. There you have the Protection the Material can give you.

The only Possibility you can do is to give the Shield-Soldier differnent ° of holding like it get done in Tanks to minimise the Damage of an enemy Tank Cannon or Infantry TD-Weapon. But then you have the problematic (if he / she not kneeing) that there are more open Weakpoints to him / her.

That an Shield-Soldier have an extra Protection-Vest is very unlikly (esp. the heavy ones like Cevlar and Guradian). With the lighter Warden it´s evtl. possible, but then you lesser Equipment.

And what is doable with more Protection (Kneeing) to get harder to hit is integrated already. And you get later with Research an much better Suit, which make it much more harder. What more you can bring in?

With R & D like the new Suit later on. And the full Game using the Brain and natural Protections too (Walls, Agrar, Natural etc.).

 

 

[Melee]

I don't understand the shield calculations. They seem to block less than X1.  I've had soldiers shot when the shield was positioned perpendicular to the shot.  Text for shield says 180 degree frontal coverage.  There are also non-hits through smoke that cause a soldier blood spurt but no damage - unclear what is happening there. 

I think the pistol damage is improved compared to X1.  The pistol is no longer reliable for non-lethal capture damage on the early aliens.

 

 

[Kamehamehayes]

1 hour ago, Melee said:

I don't understand the shield calculations. They seem to block less than X1.  I've had soldiers shot when the shield was positioned perpendicular to the shot.  Text for shield says 180 degree frontal coverage.  There are also non-hits through smoke that cause a soldier blood spurt but no damage - unclear what is happening there. 

The shield works differently from X1. Instead of having hp, it now add armor to a soldier. The shield just adds 16 armor to the front of the soldier, effectively reducing damge by 16. So shield does not block the hit entriely and the soldier ends up getting hit for reduced damage. 

Any soldier has a chance to bleed when hit, even if they end up taking negligible or zero damage. This is true for any high armored soldier and not just for shield users.

This seems like a very common response for some reason. Perhaps the tooptips are really unclear about how they work currently, in which case.

5. Make the tooptip much more explicit about what shields actually do instead of being vague or implied in the current tooltip. 

[Melee]

Just looked in-game, the tooltip is pretty clear saying 'provides... additional armour in 180-degree frontal arc'.  I've been trying to use shield guys as a tank like in X1 that don't get damaged with shield blocking shots.  I don't think 16 frontal armour is worth 50 weight and lack of firepower; having 10 more smoke in lieu of shield would be more effective.  I now don't see what utility a shield guy has over any other class that has to stay out of sight to avoid getting hit.

The soldier didn't actually bleed though.  The animation just showed a blood spurt from his chest without any damage.  It looks scary but the soldier is fine.  It is unclear if the shot was a miss that looked like it hit or was a hit that caused no damage.  Maybe x/y/z damage text is needed where x is total, y is absorbed by armour, and z is real damage.

[Kamehamehayes]

6 hours ago, Melee said:

Just looked in-game, the tooltip is pretty clear saying 'provides... additional armour in 180-degree frontal arc'.  I've been trying to use shield guys as a tank like in X1 that don't get damaged with shield blocking shots.  I don't think 16 frontal armour is worth 50 weight and lack of firepower; having 10 more smoke in lieu of shield would be more effective.  I now don't see what utility a shield guy has over any other class that has to stay out of sight to avoid getting hit.

The soldier didn't actually bleed though.  The animation just showed a blood spurt from his chest without any damage.  It looks scary but the soldier is fine.  It is unclear if the shot was a miss that looked like it hit or was a hit that caused no damage.  Maybe x/y/z damage text is needed where x is total, y is absorbed by armour, and z is real damage.

Sometimes shots hit and show the bleeding animation without actually causing bleeding. It's weird. I'm not sure if it is a bug or just an oversight. 

I slightly changed my mind on how powerful shields actually are (through my own research). They are still strong but they a probably too heavy for what they actually offer. I bet reducing the weight from 50 to 40 might be a good way of buffing the shield without accidentally making the shield broken by giving it too much defense.