Suggestion: Continental Bonus

[Muttala]

Hi Guys,

I am a lurking KS backer newbie (please be gentle to me lol) , just some rough ideas for adding an additional strategic / easy to maintain layer for base building

North America - 25% faster tech research, unique base building: Space Lab  - cost down research / hidden technologies

China / Asia  - 40% faster in injury recovery, unique building - Battle Academy - additional slots for hiring, additional level veterancy (some sort of communist strength)

USSR - 20% wider perhaps in radar range, 20% faster aircraft speed, unique building - Espionage Center - ability to uncover alien activities etc ,  new soldier type - agent (larger eye sight range or camouflage / hide ability)

Africa / Middle East - 25% Trading / Financial bonus, unique building - Black Market - perhaps some short of guerrilla force / mercenary, lower quality aircraft but much cheaper

Cuba / South America - portable base within continent, unique building Nuclear Technology (famous tech in cold war) probably wide out alien base without troops 

 

I have not played Xcom for years, just thought might be good since we go for multiple bases vs XCOM single base, Free feel to chip in.

[Nightowl]

Isn't this just copying that X-com remake again? And worse, does not even consider the game content. In Xenonaut, you are ALREADY controlling things on a continental level, the smallest political unit is a continent unlike in X-com where you have "X sub regions = 1 continent", so there is no "area collecting" since the instant you start the game, all the continents are already in your control.

The 2 are different games. What works in one does not mean it will work in another, especially since they start in opposite directions. One, you start with everything, the other you start with nothing territorywise.

[Chris]

 

5 hours ago, Muttala said:

Hi Guys,

I am a lurking KS backer newbie (please be gentle to me lol) , just some rough ideas for adding an additional strategic / easy to maintain layer for base building

North America - 25% faster tech research, unique base building: Space Lab  - cost down research / hidden technologies

China / Asia  - 40% faster in injury recovery, unique building - Battle Academy - additional slots for hiring, additional level veterancy (some sort of communist strength)

USSR - 20% wider perhaps in radar range, 20% faster aircraft speed, unique building - Espionage Center - ability to uncover alien activities etc ,  new soldier type - agent (larger eye sight range or camouflage / hide ability)

Africa / Middle East - 25% Trading / Financial bonus, unique building - Black Market - perhaps some short of guerrilla force / mercenary, lower quality aircraft but much cheaper

Cuba / South America - portable base within continent, unique building Nuclear Technology (famous tech in cold war) probably wide out alien base without troops 

 

I have not played Xcom for years, just thought might be good since we go for multiple bases vs XCOM single base, Free feel to chip in.

Thanks for the suggestion. I have been considering the idea for continent bonuses when you get all of the signal uplinks in a region (which discourages people from ignoring the uplinks I've placed in awkward places that aren't covered by placing bases that cover as much territory as possible), but it's difficult to think up useful rewards for doing this beyond increased monthly income.

The stuff you've listed is interesting but I'm not completely sure it fits in the logic of the game given the Xenonauts are meant to be the ones with the advanced technology, and it's difficult to imagine there's much that Africa can do that say America can't do better. More importantly I'm also a bit cautious of adding too much "fluff" to the game that distracts from the core gameplay experience.

However, I do still kinda like the idea. I'm collecting a number of ideas for small (maybe free) post-release DLCs that add optional things into the game for players that players can toggle on or off depending on whether they like the idea or not, and I'll chuck this on that list.

 

4 hours ago, Nightowl said:

Isn't this just copying that X-com remake again? And worse, does not even consider the game content. In Xenonaut, you are ALREADY controlling things on a continental level, the smallest political unit is a continent unlike in X-com where you have "X sub regions = 1 continent", so there is no "area collecting" since the instant you start the game, all the continents are already in your control.

The 2 are different games. What works in one does not mean it will work in another, especially since they start in opposite directions. One, you start with everything, the other you start with nothing territorywise.

Actually that isn't completely true, as you now have signal uplinks / command centers you can construct in specific places on the Geoscape to boost your income from that region (this is also how you unlock more scientists / engineers to hire). There's more detail on the system here: https://www.goldhawkinteractive.com/forums/index.php?/topic/20906-testing-orbital-bombardment-proliferation-signal-uplinks/

 

[Nightowl]

19 minutes ago, Chris said:

Actually that isn't completely true, as you now have signal uplinks / command centers you can construct in specific places on the Geoscape to boost your income from that region (this is also how you unlock more scientists / engineers to hire). There's more detail on the system here: https://www.goldhawkinteractive.com/forums/index.php?/topic/20906-testing-orbital-bombardment-proliferation-signal-uplinks/

 

You know, you're definitely going to get accusations of being an X-Com2 clone if your mechanics and even missions are so similar to it. I don't think it would do anyone any good if such copying came about. There is no reason not to involve a little more creativity for something different.

For example, instead of the "Assasinate VIP", you could simply call it "Disrupt Alliance meeting" (An alien negotiator is meeting with a leader of a separatist movement to discuss an alliance. Ensure that neither of them survive.) and have a mixed enemy force of humans and aliens that you have to fight.

Bombing Stock Exchange: In order to cause economic disruption, aliens have begun attacking financial centers. If something is not done, the economic downturn will cause a loss of funding to the Xenonauts program and dissatisfaction with our progress.

Escort Tech Transfer: (Possible strategic option with new tech discovered, limited to new weapons and armour): To increase the effectiveness of local forces to resist the alien threat, Xenonaut HQ has decided to release their findings of alien tech to the world governments. Ensure that the transport reaches its destination (can be an air defence mission, ensure a helicopter reaches country X without being shot down, or a land transport mission), relationship bonus if mission is successful.

Invasion!: Aliens have set up an invasion base to militarily conquer Country X outright. Local forces are holding their own for now but casualties are mounting and panic is spreading. Help them by taking out strategic targets protecting the alien base and causing their position to become untenable (random missions can be between taking out alien artillery, alien air defences, alien power plant, alien leadership, open a breech by cleaning out all aliens in an area or blowing up invasion base power plant, so many possible options).

As you can see, there really isn't a point in courting accusations of plagiarism or copying when there are so many more possible other routes to choose from. It does Xenonauts a disservice to be seen just as a copy of something else.

[Chris]

41 minutes ago, Nightowl said:

You know, you're definitely going to get accusations of being an X-Com2 clone if your mechanics and even missions are so similar to it. I don't think it would do anyone any good if such copying came about. There is no reason not to involve a little more creativity for something different.

I think there's a rather small chance anyone is going to call us an XCOM 2 clone (unless that person also thought Xenonauts 1 was a clone of XCOM), as the games are different in almost every way except for the genre and subject matter. 

The VIP elimination missions in XCOM2 and Xenonauts 2 aren't really the same thing either - they have different strategic consequences and considerations, different gameplay purposes, and one involves fighting your own human allies and the other involves fighting aliens (just like every other mission in XCOM2). All the missions you've proposed are fundamenally just "fight the aliens to reduce panic in a region" ideas, which suggests you're focusing more on the flavour rather than the mechanics. But capturing a crashed UFO in Xenonauts isn't the same experience as capturing a crashed UFO in XCOM, so even if the mechanics were the same (which they aren't) it shouldn't actually be a problem.

If there's small tweaks that can be made to the presentation of systems to make them look less similar to XCOM, by all means post them up, I'm always happy to consider them. But not including a mission type in the game because XCOM also had that mission type is probably going a bit far.

[Nightowl]

1 minute ago, Chris said:

 But not including a mission type in the game because XCOM also had that mission type is probably going a bit far.

Fair enough, just change the name of the missions. Otherwise it is going to be very obvious that it's not only the mission types that is being replicated.

[Chris]

14 minutes ago, Nightowl said:

Fair enough, just change the name of the missions. Otherwise it is going to be very obvious that it's not only the mission types that is being replicated.

You've not played the closed beta, right? I'd actually be interested to know what the major parts of XCOM that you perceive we've replicated in X2. Mind making a quick bullet list for me?

[Nightowl]

31 minutes ago, Chris said:

You've not played the closed beta, right? I'd actually be interested to know what the major parts of XCOM that you perceive we've replicated in X2. Mind making a quick bullet list for me?

Are you reading this in context of the original point of the thread?

If you did take his suggestion, then the list would be a continental bonus system, building relays for bonuses and mission types. There has to be a limit as to how much "like" another game you can be without the inevitable happening.

I know it's a Work In Progress, just throwing a sheet anchor windward so that people who want a "game like the other game" won't end up driving this into a "copy of the other game".

Hell, if you read the original post, he even directly said "he has not played Xcom for years", which should hint as to the genesis of his ideas.

[Chris]

On 3/21/2020 at 2:46 PM, Nightowl said:

Are you reading this in context of the original point of the thread?

If you did take his suggestion, then the list would be a continental bonus system, building relays for bonuses and mission types. There has to be a limit as to how much "like" another game you can be without the inevitable happening.

I guess my question to you was my way of asking you whether you saw these mechanics among a whole bunch of other stolen mechanics, or not. The way you were talking about the game being a "clone" made it seem like you were saying this was the final straw that made this game just XCOM 2 by another name. Honestly I think in practice, given the overall number of mechanics in the game, even directly stealing the satellite mechanics from XCOM in their entirety wouldn't be a problem. But they work differently in practice anyway so it's definitely not an issue.

From my point of view it's a dangerous attitude when people start saying we just can't use mechanics that have featured in some way in similar games. For example, XCOM and Phoenix Point both have a power system for their bases. Either we don't use it and we're missing a potentially interesting genre-standard feature or we do use it and by your logic we become a clone. I get the overall thrust behind your logic that you don't want to turn Xenonauts into XCOM (and nobody wants that), but drawing inspiration from competitors and then innovating on it is how a lot of game design is driven forwards.

TL;DR EDIT - in retrospect, the question I should have asked is "Are you aware we've dropped most of the major mechanics we planned to borrow from XCOM; most importantly the single-base side-on base setup?" If you were not aware of that, I definitely understand why you'd be wary of us borrowing more things from XCOM. If you do know that we've dropped those things, then I think you're probably worrying too much about what are relatively minor mechanics. The base system was a massive change that made the game a lot like XCOM; but the game design has diverged a lot since then.

[Muttala]

On 3/21/2020 at 8:18 PM, Chris said:

Thanks for the suggestion. I have been considering the idea for continent bonuses when you get all of the signal uplinks in a region (which discourages people from ignoring the uplinks I've placed in awkward places that aren't covered by placing bases that cover as much territory as possible), but it's difficult to think up useful rewards for doing this beyond increased monthly income.

The stuff you've listed is interesting but I'm not completely sure it fits in the logic of the game given the Xenonauts are meant to be the ones with the advanced technology, and it's difficult to imagine there's much that Africa can do that say America can't do better. More importantly I'm also a bit cautious of adding too much "fluff" to the game that distracts from the core gameplay experience.

However, I do still kinda like the idea. I'm collecting a number of ideas for small (maybe free) post-release DLCs that add optional things into the game for players that players can toggle on or off depending on whether they like the idea or not, and I'll chuck this on that list.

 

 

Thanks you Chris, I didn't expect you to reply on this personally. The suggestion is a bit rough / unpolished yet, I know , but I guess you understand generic idea behind it.

What excite me a lot is the lot is the asymmetric gameplay / huge replay value found in recent games line Endless legend / Starcraft 2 for its due unique units / factions based taste.

Probably this can served as other better ideas in future wherever it fits.

  

Edited March 29, 2020 by Muttala