MickeyC

It would, I should think, actually be quite realistic to have some squads in any force be a mix of veterans and rookies. It'd be reasonably counter-productive to keep having an all rookie squad annihilated only to replace it with another all rookie squad... Exactly, it is the players choice. A choice which cannot be prevented, no matter what you do, even being unable to save during a mission doesn't preclude saving just before the mission and just redoing the whole thing if you don't like the result. I freely admit in the past I often grew too attached to my troops and would often reload if I lost too many in one go. I was a firm advocate of the saving at the start of every turn and if during the alien turn something happened I didn't like, reload try something else... Really slowed down gameplay, but at the time I enjoyed keeping my people alive so it's what I did. Now I always try not to do it at all, and accept these are war games, soldiers die, live with it. But that is not everyone's cup of tea. It again all comes down to that overarching word for all aspects of the game ... Balance. As long as there is a balance between the starting troops to rookies in late game, whether that is better rookies, ability to train them prior to engagement, or just better weaponry and armour, then people will find a way to play the game that suits them

You'll know when it's ready for posting, Sathra, we can wait

Ok some interesting thoughts here. Rather than directly comment on what has been said, I'll suggest some thoughts on what may cause gains for the stats listed: For action points I would think that *any* action taken would attribute some experience towards the stat. The more points a particular action takes (i.e shots at higher aim levels) would attribute more points than actions taking lesser points (i.e turning, walking etc). As a marker of a genuine level of experience the number of missions completed by the soldier should add additional experience, and also for each actual rank increase (Rookie - Private - Corporal - Sergeant etc) should also add a bonus. Resilience is a tough one, as was said it seems odd to think getting injured makes one healthier, but in this instance I think the utilisation of "what doesn't kill me makes me stronger" is probably a safe bet. So any injury sustained that does not kill the trooper would give experience to the resilience stat. Also gains could be added for rank level and completed missions etc. A further option could be the more missions completed without taking injury could create a multiplication factor for the resilience experience. Strength again is not an easy one. The simple thing is obviously the more weight a trooper carries (and the longer it goes on for) the more strength experience would accumulate. A different multiplication factor could be applied based on whether the weight is carried in the backpack or in the arms - it should be a question of balance not realism to determine which way it should go. Realistically overloading a trooper could increase the gains (at the expense of other stats due to the lesser AP's available for other things), but weightlifting is a matter of repetitions more so than it is actually weight. So carrying an 80% load for longer and more consistently and contributing with other actions would be better than struggling along with a 130% load and doing nothing. Accuracy of course, firing weapons, hitting targets and throwing grenades etc. Though hitting your chosen target is obviously best, I would think that within a certain arc of your target, say 30degrees either side, should also give gains to accuracy. Allowing this would also mean you could get reasonable gains for shots specifically towards non-alien static targets. Reflexes is another tough one. Actions that occur through reaction fire etc, absolutely should led to reflex experience. As had been said burst fire too could give gains, whereas aimed fire may not, or at least would give much less. Another option that could assist with reflexes are having shots fired at the trooper being near misses. Reflex experience could be gained as a nod towards the trooper evading the shot etc, so the closer the shot the more experience could be attributed. Bravery would have to have gains over time, so for rank increases and again based on the number of missions completed by the trooper. Not panicking when below the threshold makes sense as a bonus too, what I would suggest also would be that for every hit and kill the trooper makes he scores a bonus to bravery experience could be added. If you treat bravery more as confidence, then any encounter face to face with an alien that sees the trooper come out alive (and hopefully uninjured) could give a bonus as well - I'm thinking here more like breaching a UFO or entering a room to be confronted by a group of aliens - soldier goes EEP! - soldier kills or incapacitates aliens and moves on - soldier goes Heck Yeah I'm good! (Bravery experience goes skyrocketing). Missions, as I have said in some of the above, the number of completed missions should affect the experience levels of some of the stats,but for the others completed missions could generate a multiplication factor, so actions gain more experience (this does not need to be a large number, I would think it should start from say 10 missions and begin at X0.1 - at most, this could increase to as much as X0.25 but I would not go beyond that, otherwise it would be too much) Kills, as above for bravery, but kills could also have a general value for action points and possibly resilience also. Rank - assuming rank experience is required for promotions it need not be directly tied to actions taken during a mission, but rather should be gained based on the total experience gain of the primary stats. Say Private GI Joe, received a total of 50 experience across his primary stats in one mission, he accumulates 10 rank experience points towards Corporal. Obviously the actually ratio would need to be fudged based on how much experience is required for each rank and how many missions would be reasonable for someone to achieve the next rank. Gaining of ranks as with many games probably should involve a bonus to all stats, but it does not need to be significant. I'm sure there are other options for all of these, but to me these seem reasonable

I ... game ... play ... now ... ! ... ? ... ! Hadn't heard of Sots prior to this, will investigate the first ... if 2 is even a tenth as bad as is being suggested here, it can wait for a long time before I will bother looking at it

Is there an Aardvaark?

For me it always depended on why I was hiring. if I needed to fill out my team and had nothing pressing for them to do, I'd dismiss any that didn't met my standards. If I was hiring because I needed them for a men for a mission, base assault or just happening to have something come up while they were enroute, I'd take them along as cannon fodder, breaching and scouting etc.

I know what you mean ... hanging out for some Cobra time

I had already thought Gauddlike's idea was a good one, but actually seeing it spelled out so simply it does make a lot of sense, particular when you consider that you might have been really unlucky on the pool and only have rookies for hire anyway. It also seems much more reasonable for a new team to arrive with a couple of 2nd tier troops and the rest rookies, rather than hiring and instantly training your rookies to be 2nd tier. When you think the rookies would already have gone through what passes for their own nationality's basic training, the logical next step is action - not more training to gain a rank (except for commissioned officers - but that is another discussion and one that is likely not going to amount to anything implementable)

Didn't sat it was a good precedent... though I actually did like them. They were a serious *beech*, but added an element of tactical play in terms of best utilisation of ammunition etc, and what weaponry to take along for best effect etc. They may not be a perfect solution but they do add something to the gameplay

It's a scientrific fact, Red goes faster

and reason for supply ship before base attack revealed. Nice, Sathra, loving some of that witty repartee mid mission Now for some Cobra action

Agreed, the approach and successful entry to a downed UFO is an integral part of the experience. TFTD had two level mission for Terror attacks on ships etc, there is a precedent for these

And one I had put in the other thread, that Mylar found elsewhere and did a tagging job on

Here are a few cold war era posters from the interwebz that the artistically minded of us could have a play with

Yeah the defaced fallout shelter could work well and certainly fits the period

Woot!! Sports Team!! Sports Team!! Goooooooooo Sports Team!! and or College!!

Who's taking me ... oh wait ... I see what you did there

Going withe the fuel levels, it makes sense for every item, including corpses, well and living aliens, civvies and troopers would have a fuel value. Now that would be interesting a civvie standing next to a highly flammable ... um ... fire, catches alight and proceeds to run into the middle of a bunch of AD's red barrels... Can we say ... boom!

Yeah that would have to be a choice you would need to make. But to a point it's the same choice you would need from most different methods being discussed. If you can see the stats of a trooper prior to hiring them, then you pick and choose the one that suits what you are after. Heavy weapons trooper you go with strength, sniper you go with accuracy etc

How about that local sports team?

Interesting idea Tweaked, as a simple system it could work really well. One possible change I would suggest might be having the bonus for new recruits based on the accumulated field experience of your other troops rather than results themselves, so if you have 3 guys that survive every battle but otherwise all recruits you get an average boost, but if your whole team has survived all game somehow and then one guy dies, his replacement gets a much bigger boost. Obviously those are both fairly extreme but it might keep a reasonable balance - and that is what it is really all about .. contrary to popular opinion it is not the hokey pokey

wow ... just ... wow This would be some severe epic *bleep* right there

He's one of them!!!! Get him!!!!! RaaaaaaaaaaaaRRRRR ... No ... what ... he's not? Oh, my bad. Seriously though it is fairly common for people to list their country of residence in a low tax area, I'm thinking specifically here of top tennis players earning bucket loads of prize money, a lot of them have a listed country of residence in Monaco I think it is, because there is a very low income tax rate.

Sounds ... interesting. Can't wait to see the write up, hoping I didn't die again

I understand not wanting to make something too micromanagementy, and though I don't think training or the lack thereof is going to be the difference between a good game and a bad game, my personal view is that having a training system of some sort would be beneficial, but it would need to be more than a single course that improves a new recruit to corporal with a small bonus. If there is going to be a training system at all then make it a training system. If there isn't going to be a system then take it out completely. As Gazz is continually emphasising having a training system that allows some micromanagement but doesn't enforce such, i.e the player can ignore training completely or it has an "auto" setting where the system takes care of it all, is probably the best way to go. So that those who want to get right into it and tailor their soldiers to their own idea of what will make a good squad can do so, those who don't care can let the system do it for them, and those that want a challenge can train no-one and go through the game with basic soldiers who only improve through doing things - something for everyone.