Xeroxth
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I actually love all of these changes. Especially love how so much more varied the ufos are now. And this could even be better if the ufos are just as modular as our fighters, kinda similar to how they make the same kind of rebel ships in FTL with different configurations of weapons and room systems. The shields could also be adapted to this the modular build. Rather than just a bubble, it only cover the part with a shield generator in a 60 degree arc. The weapons could also be like this.
On 5/21/2020 at 6:17 AM, Chris said:More advanced interceptors have do have better base stats than the earlier interceptors and are superior to their older counterparts, but aircraft now have an armour slot as well as weapon slots and the early interceptors still have access to the same upgradeable armour as the advanced interceptors do.
Newer more developed fighter frames of late game should have different slot configurations and more slots than the first aircraft. For instance the first Condor should always have only one engine slot, so that even with upgraded jets, they’re still not as fast as a later plane with 2 engine slots. However they should be balanced in a way to make them a huge investment but not really needed to complete the game. You can of course play it by continuing to make new better frames and transfer all of the old plane equipments and pilots to the new one like a more complex version of the first game. Or you can just make a swarm of the cheap easily replaced Condor with upgraded weapons and pilot protection to attack the big ufos from multiple directions.
On 5/21/2020 at 6:17 AM, Chris said:so if I can solve a few of the thorny design issues that still remain then perhaps the dream of an improved X2 air combat model will rise from the dead!
I’m still really not warming up to the first system at all. It’s just not only lack the fast pace of how air combat should feels like, it would make implementation of fair auto-resolve next to impossible which forces the people that already hate it into playing like the Total War Warhammer games. Not to mention the amount of complaints from the fan of the X-Division people and the old fans being riled up about it last time. And weirdly enough the people that vocally pushed for the turn based system are like three people on this forums while the people from the steam forums and subreddit largely oppose to it.
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On 5/20/2020 at 8:22 PM, Chris said:
Another change is that there's no longer any research projects that auto-upgrade things (like the explosives projects did in X1) - these now unlock engineering projects that take time and resources to do this. In the current design there's also a "V2" upgrade for each of the weapon technologies that improves the stats of an older weapon tier, the idea being that people can either commit to the new weapons or run an upgrade project to try and keep their existing weapons relevant for longer.
Oh this is just my jam! I always love how old and tested weapons can be kept relevant in universes like 40k. But these shouldn’t be just v2 upgrades as you say but they should have certain perks over other weapons so that they can be kept around after more advanced types of weapons are made. For instance:
- normal guns -> ETC guns (v2) -> RAVEN guns (NATO exclusive v3 - a high rate replacement for rocket launchers) / Chemogyrojet guns (Soviet exclusive v3 - just straight up the heavy bolter from 40k but can only be used with power armor)
- laser guns -> alenium focused lens (v2) -> Heat ray (NATO exclusive v3 - basically Martian death rays from Mars attack, only comes in rifles variant; a burst laser weapon with higher chance of critical hits that turns enemies into cartoonish steaming skeletons) / Las riffle (Soviet exclusive v3 - shoot a continuous but short ranged beam that increased in damage the more TU given to it, the mechanism was mentioned by some posters on the general discussions, only comes in carbines, practically very similar to the las guns from Dune and Judge Dredd) -> point defense armor ( a kinda v4 version of laser weapons that offer 25% of shooting down grenades or missiles about 5 tiles from the soldier, only if you go all the way with NATO)
- mag guns -> rail guns (NATO v2, big damage, good accuracy but small ammo capacity) / coil guns (Soviet v2, less accurate but can use multiple ammo types like Flechette shot) -> mag puller (Soviet v3, use the magnetic field itself as a weapon to break down the target molecular bonds, really powerful and long ranged but only have one shot per magazine) / grav immobilizer (Allied v3, pretty much Jojo’s Echoes Act 3, increases the target weight so much that they can’t move, do no damage to normal enemies but drain their TUs for the turn if hit, deathly to drones) -> mag shield (a v4 upgrade to mag tech and also the best version of the riot shield, you can only get if you follow the USSR all the way, have a 10% chance of reflecting the damage back to the shooter)
- plasma guns -> plasma capsules guns (NATO exclusive v2 - offer more control bursts but lower damage, a sniper only variant) / Sun guns (Soviet exclusive v2 - extremely powerful to the point of vaporizing alien officers in single shots but is very unstable as it works by overcharging the plasma charge to the heat of the sun, can explode violently if overheated comes in only pistol variations)
On 6/9/2020 at 3:35 AM, Ninothree said:So each campaign you can create a different 'build' (but if you have the patience you can unlock every upgrade).
This could add a huge amount of replayability if implemented right. For instance you could go for a pure dakka run with lightly armored soldiers using overwhelming firepower to kill enemies before they can hit you. Or a stealth run where most of your soldiers is equipped with deflector shields, neural implants, cloaking fields and plasma sabers to charge at the enemy like techno knights.
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On 5/18/2020 at 11:28 PM, Chris said:
the creation of some terror sites and alien bases is now independent from UFOs, so achieving complete air superiority will not lock you out from ever seeing those missions (in the final game ideally about half of them will be spawned from UFOs and thus preventable).
This should be addressed lore wise and with some added mechanics to make these separate spawns different from actual terror missions that involve alien ships. Maybe the independent terror sites are deployed using orbital drop pods so the enemies would be exclusively Androns and Reapers as they’re the only ones that can handle the G-force and the later impacts. And the bases that get built independently will feature special builder drones and huge portal setup that continues to spawn in aliens (basically an upscaled teleporting elevator) with the fallback of not having any AA guns that have to be disabled. To destroy the base the builder drones have to be killed and the portal must be destroyed. While normal bases have ship hangars, AA plasma turrets and multiple levels to them that makes it necessary for your transport planes be protected by fighters to even land and bombers being unable to destroy the base
On 5/18/2020 at 11:28 PM, Chris said:This is your only source of scientists and engineers, so players will need to expand across the world to grow their research / engineering efforts.
This is quite restrictive in my opinion. Scientists and engineers should also be recruited from special events and factional favors for the added factor of choice to the game. Maybe an alien ship abducted a genius scientist and by shooting down a UFO you can find him in a holding pen/stasis prison. Maybe the Soviets will give you a group of 10 scientists if you help them attack a West German base or give them some tech in making plasma weapons. These people can also be recruited from special operations and field agents using choice dialogue similar to how FTL does it.
On 5/18/2020 at 11:28 PM, Chris said:Naturally, you'll get your revenge on the space station at the end of the game!
You should also have a choice in this as well. This could work by your decision in what to do with the station after invading it. Maybe you could take it over, destroy it or give it to either the US or USSR. Kinda like the ending to the first Deus Ex.
On 5/18/2020 at 11:28 PM, Chris said:Alternate Ending:
Oh yes! The endings shouldn’t be too elaborate but not as simple as a “you win” screen like the first game. The best option to implement this is have it being similar to old RPGs ending screenshots having a slideshow and commentary on how your decisions changed the world (like Arcanum or the Fallout games). For instance if you decided to not share tech at all, overthrow both sides of the Cold War and takeover the UOO-1, the world would be under the complete control of the Xenonauts ruling it with a iron fist. If you decide to help both and destroy UOO-1, the status quo would continue, both sides continues to threaten each other with nuclear annihilation and Xenonauts is once again disbanded after serving its purpose. The other two endings will depends on the side you support.
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46 minutes ago, Chris said:
capturing a Sebillian alive so you can extract all its blood more efficiently is a bit dark
I mean it’s pretty nothing compared to the things the two sides did during the Cold War. Even less when it’s a war for human independence. If you want to make an omelette you have to break a few eggs ;).
I think there should be only at most 3 components for each species of aliens (2 or three more for ships and drones). That should be pretty manageable and open to expansion from the inevitable X-Division mod sequel
. I myself thought out a few that could fit.
>Ceasan: Psychic Enhancer, Neural Mapper(very rare on mook but have a 30% drop chance for officers and pilots), Nanothread
>Scout Floater: Cyber Eye (2 is needed to make a night vision visor, 1 for Enhanced Scope), Nanothread
>Sebilian: Sebilian Serum, Metallic Ossifier (an implant that surrounds their bones with alien alloys, can be used to directly enhance your troops to explosive/fire damage)
>Andron: Vibro Heater, Plasma Core (very useful, can be used for making Gun Overcharger, Exo Skin, Homing Grenade,...)
>Wraith: Intact Wraith Glans (the alien is pretty bad to get resources from).
>Harridan: Quantum Gyroscope, Neural Mapper, Parasitic Spine (the reason why removing the Harridan’s armor will kill it, used to make under armor that give huge AP bonus, with the cost of heavy bleeding if the torso armor is broken).
>Reaper: Cocoon Fluid (same stuff that protect the developing Reaper inside the zombie, to make an under armor that can cocoon up for one turn/battle to protect from dumb deaths like a plasma canon shot out of nowhere), Nanothread, Reaper Venom (for more drugs, yay!).
>Drones: Plasma Core and Quantum Gyroscope (extremely low drop rate of 5% as they usually explode upon death can only be harvested when taken down by emp/stun weapons)
>Praetor: Nothing! Yes, because they hate genetic/mechanical implants and their psychic brains disintegrate upon death.
All under armor needs an extra component and nanothread to make. Later Nanothread can be made straight from alien corpses with a research.
Ships especially transport ships and well supplied bases can have all of these components in stores. So interrogating living aliens to find these is also rewarding if you find organ harvesting too evil. I actually worked out more components for the other aliens I posted on the new aliens thread but these can be the start.
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I think @Chris ‘s idea of an under-suit could be easily implemented but can be much more improved if some of the rare components can only be from specific methods but always not 100% full proof. Like he said, using alien corpses to turn into resources could be a pretty good way of simplifying the system. But I think you could make it more in-depth by giving special conditions for those corpses to gain the resources you need. For instance:
- A Sebilian mook’s corpse only have a 10% chance of dropping a Sebilian Serum but the higher the rank, the higher this chance will get (an officer, veteran will have a drop chance of 40-50%)
- A captured Sebilian will have double the drop rate of a Sebilian killed in battle
- Higher ranking aliens also have a chance to drop rarer stuff like cybernetic implants
This should also come with a holding facility/chop shop where Xenonauts get to decide the fate of the captured aliens. You could interrogate them for a long period with the rewards of special missions: attack their earth-based cloning facilities, kill their supply convoys, VIP protection... where rare resources can be gained without vivisection. Or you could chop them up to harvest their organs in only a day or two.
On 6/16/2020 at 3:53 AM, ooey said:If you want them you have to go the extra mile for them and perhaps do missions that you don't really want to do because they are tougher. It's a risk/reward thing.
There should be special regional/factional missions to go with this. One of the factions can give you a mission to sabotage the other faction with the rewards being high-stats soldiers with special traits, unique faction weapon/attachment blueprints, research personnel, and even rare resources. Doing these missions will not only improve relations with the faction it will also sour the other faction respectively.
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Since fighters now have a modular system of upgrades I think the same should be appropriate for the transport aircraft. Maybe at first they could be escorted by fighters, but later down the line they should also be fitted with upgrades that allow them to escape from alien attack ships on their own. Maybe an energy shields for tanking more damage, boosters to make a getaway, heat flares to avoid missiles, and later lazer point defense to shoot them down,...
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I think @Sheepy said it best here, the random drops should be only for creating attachments to your weapons, armor upgrades, specialized weapons but nothing more than that. Most baseline weapons should only be crafted with Alenium and Alien Alloys. That will make a game session more varied and replayable as the drops are entirely random. Some more active examples:
- Combat stimulants: give a soldier back 50% of his/her APs back for a 20% loss in health. Can only be crafted with Sebilian Serums.
- Mind Jogger: a taser-like weapon that can cure mind control, single use only. Can only be made with a Neural Mapper.
- Escape grenade: can be used with only a tiny amount of APs, let a soldier teleport to a random point on the map to escape danger. Can only be crafted with Intact Wraith Glands.
- Heat bayonet: an attachment for your gun, a handy melee weapon when an enemy surprise you from a corner and you don’t have enough APs to switch to a shotgun. Can only be crafted with a Vibro Heater.
- Air stabilizer: an upgrade to your Jetpack armor, allow your soldiers to shoot while hovering. Can only be crafted with Quantum Gyroscope.
- Chameleon field: an upgrade to your armor, make you invisible for a single turn in a battle (I.e. cannot be shoot at by aliens in overwatch). Can only be crafted using Nanothread and a Ceasan Psychic Enhancer.
This combined with regional/factional missions (to do favors for certain countries), could create a choice for the player to support certain regions based on the drops they give you as a reward and the exclusive weapons that needs those drops to be made.
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On 6/7/2020 at 12:59 AM, Comrade said:
While these seem like well thought out ideas, lets remember Xenonauts is a grounded game
I have to respectfully disagree with the notion that X1 is anyway grounded. We have the aliens using teleportation as elevators but no usage in weapons. We have the Reapers that have growth rate straight up ignore the laws of thermodynamics and biology. We have teleportation implants for the Wraiths but no teleporting bombs or guns. We have psychic powers. With all of these technology and the ability to travel FTL, an actual grounded scenario would be quite boring as it will end with the aliens winning over humanity using divide and conquer tactics like the British did in India (they’d just fund different factions to fight amongst ourselves). Unless the aliens are something like refugees that only conquer earth out of desperation that is.
On 6/7/2020 at 12:59 AM, Comrade said:Also slamming as many "cool" weapons as you can doesn't really make combat more interesting. Often times by adding too many types of alien all of them become less unique.
This is true. I think at best we should only add at most five new aliens while actually focusing on making more variety out of their equipment. I would love to see the aliens with sealed power armor, energy shield, healing kits, mines and support weapons such as artillery.
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@Chris Yeah, I always think that the enemy design in X1 as something that needs to be carryover to X2. The first game’s alien had a distinctive cleanliness to them that make them resemble early sci-fi aliens designed by Wayne Barlowe and old 50s magazine aliens.
But an enemy can be distinctive in their behavior as well as unique role in the battle. For instance the smart AI of the psychic soldiers in FEAR make a relatively boring enemy (grunts with guns) into something that drew in players time and time again. Or even the Stalkers in Dead Space 2 with how they work in pairs of two to distract and attack the player made them the most memorable part of that game.
Aliens also can be made distinct by having exclusive weapons that made them into a specialized class of enemy. That way just having enemy with a gun isn’t a big issue. For instance the enemy I suggested a previous thread being always floating and can shoot while flying (basically a beefed up Harridan) and can see through walls, should only get close range weapons like the plasma carbine, flame thrower and melee weapon. Or the alien with multiple arms can only use heavy weapon like the cannon and the heavy machine gun. Or the snake like enemies can turn invisible but can only attack you up close. That would certainly make them more memorable.
11 hours ago, Max_Caine said:I suspose if you could boil it down to 1-2 word archetypes, thne you could look at the archetype and see if there's a room for it.
This is also a good design philosophy. I also suggest we make some aliens straight upgrades of the already existing aliens.
- Harridan (flying sniper) -> Eosapien (flying heavy)
- Andron -> Drones, Tanks
- Sebilian -> Snake aliens
- Ceasan -> Alien hybrids
Some archetypes like the healer (worms in a containment suit like the Halo series Hunters), AoE damaging field enemy (alien that is a humanoid pile of radioactive crystals), enemy with different stages (huge modular alien that break apart once damaged enough), buffer (giant humanoid slugs with flame weapons that can increase nearby enemies APs and make them immune to suppression), melee specialists (giant insectoid alien that break through doors and walls and carry grenades),... should be a must.
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I would love to beat alien stragglers after the final mission. Maybe some lore explanation where without the mothership, the aliens effectively become a huge refugee crisis with more zealous ones act as a guerrilla army hinding in any country willing to support them. If the faction features get brought back, I sure hope to see how humanity forever changed by the war and xenonauts influence. Something like paths where you take over the coalition or help one side to win the Cold War. All based on how much you support certain regions. The post game could have you further consolidate power by crushing any rebelling regions against the new world government.
For instance, some post-USSR red army soldiers that allied with the alien guerrilla to take over a city and the xenonauts can go in and stop it in a NATO playthrough. Or maybe Xenonauts striking a criminal gang using smuggled alien tech in New York in a neutral playthrough.
it could be cool to also see maps that portray the post-war situation with huge District 9-type alien cities built from ship wreckage with alien civilians as well.
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Me me I want more aliens!
Most of the current aliens in the game now are fine some like the Sebilians are great redesigns. But I have to agree that the design of the ceasan as it is now is a little bit too cartoonish to my taste. They just really don’t look threatening at all.
My conception of the invaders is a coalition of different slave races under the thrall of the Praetor civilization. Based on the heavy usage of genetic engineering and cybernetic implants within the aliens even from the first game. I think the devs should add more alien species to create more varieties in gameplay.
On 5/13/2020 at 2:22 AM, Ninothree said:In that other thread I think someone mentioned breaking the norm of aliens being two-armed, gun-toting bipeds. Androns could certainly get an update to look like the T1 model from Terminator, although even that has something of the human upper body about it. Sebillians did have a good effect of looking tough, but they also gave off vibes of a crocodile wearing half a suit of armour. I think you've got to lean one way or the other. Either it is a bio-engineered somewhat nonsensical fighter species (like a Reaper) or it is a regular tool-using species that grew up the old fashioned way, in which case it has to have some kind of hand(s) and sensory organs but you can go wild other than that.
I think the only requirement for the aliens is two just being able to carry weapons and some interesting mechanics added on. Aside from the moties and eosapien concepts I posted in the last thread, I do have a few more.
First is just some kind of creature that resembles the fallout floaters. Weak, can only attack using electric tentacles but there’s a lot of them and is used by the aliens like scouts or attack dogs. They should be used along side the ceasans as the early game canon fodder.
Next some type of shapeshifter or alien hybrids in the same vein of the thin men of the X-Com reboot. Just to enhance the feel of the secret war and infiltration missions. They can be mildly human but some higher ranking one by mid-game can just turn themselves into more alien forms as the second phase could be fun.
The Androns and other drones could be retcon to have tiny aliens controlling them from the inside like the tiny aliens from the first MiB.
Maybe we can have aliens that came from water worlds that lives containment suits. Aliens that are made of crystals that rather than using weapons can shoot out diamond like projectiles. Or even modular creatures that fell apart into multiple smaller aliens when injured. The possibilities are endless.
First of all to get out of the conventional mold, there really should be some kind of alien that have multiple limbs or different vision cones. More legs like centaur alien or more arms so that the alien could use multiple weapons at the same time. Also I think that having a humanoid alien would be perfectly fine as long as the design is just some anthropomorphic animal like the Sebilian or just rubber-headed aliens like the Harridan. Something like the Wraith could be good if they have more limbs. Take a look at this Drii for instance.
On 5/15/2020 at 8:28 AM, Comrade said:As long as the aliens are grounded and not too "out-there", the game should be fine
Basically no codexes or watchers from XCOM 2
Man you have no idea how much I hate the concept of the codex in general. It’s both boring and somehow lore breaking at the sametime. Wow! A digital alien! How unique of of them to just have a human with weird texture!
On 5/8/2020 at 3:46 PM, Alienkiller said:I personaly would like to have some Guerilla Groups which give you a additional challange. The best Example is the EXALT-Group from XCOM: Enemy Within or as atm newest Example the 3 Factions from Phoenix Point.
I think the need for a human enemy to fight could be easily addressed with the reintroduction of the Cold War setting. By your decision of help either the NATO or the Warsaw Pact in tech sharing and covert missions, one side will get increasingly hostile to the point of actively helping the aliens. By the end you would have to completely wipe out one faction to finally unite humanity in the war if you choose this path. The NATO or Soviet you fight will will have different tech and weapons coming from their regional bonuses.
But this is entirely your choice. You can choose to help both equally (with the penalty being you will not get unique scientists, soldiers, factional technology and subsequently their exclusive weapons) to avoid fighting human enemies and only fight the aliens. Your decision will not only change the course of the war against the aliens but the future of the Earth as well.
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On 5/20/2020 at 10:47 AM, EurekaSeven said:
Chris had mentioned several times about the infiltration missions that you need to play in favour of a less-lethal way, and I'm curious that if so, would the less-lethal arsenal from X1 would be expanded. In the original game we only have batons, flashbangs and incapacitating agent (stun grenade), it works pretty well if you want to capture some aliens, but I wonder would they be enough for doing infiltration mission (especially when the human soldiers start to equip gas masks), and would the devs considering adding new weapons (e.g. Tranquilizer darts, riot guns, CS gas and tasers). It would be difficult to balance such weaponry as well, such as if you have taser that can knock out human soldiers instantly or a tranquilizer sniper rilfe that have a relatively long range, they would be too powerful in game as these weapons can work for early stage aliens as well.
I would seriously love a way to utilize the captured aliens using non-lethal weapons. The last game is just so disappointing with you executing any survivors. I remembered a session where using just gas grenades I knocked out like 4 sebilians and 1 ceasan, I thought I was going to get some new research options but instead all of them get shot after the mission.
There should be also some way of non lethal take down for civilians as well so that they wouldn’t get killed by reapers all the time.
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These are great suggestions especially the movement of JA2. I have always see JA2 as the gold standard for turn-based strategy game movements.
Also having a lethal option for a melee weapons should be great. Starting with just a mono molecular edge knife or sword made with alien alloys to plasma torches and with something equivalent to 40k power weapons where the blade project a magnetic field that weaken molecular bonds wherever it hits.
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1 hour ago, TrashMan said:
Nah, the annoying gameplay gimmick aside, the concept itself is what I hate.
The idea of data having a physical form, ignoring the laws of physics and being defeated with bullets is so utterly retarded it offends me on a deep level.
Very much this. The entire concept reeks of contrivances and nonsensical lore breaking just to replace a concept like alien commander interrogation (which can be done far better) with some more more mindless combat with an extremely annoying enemy. Seriously if the advent can do this, why do they even need to be a physical species at all? Why can’t they just transcend their physical forms and live out their days in gigantic matrioshka brains and live out their existence in perfect paradise to the heat death of the universe itself? Their design is also generic as hell, just another humanoid with a gun and some terrible techno textures pasted on. Even the Typhons from Prey were more visually unique.
1 hour ago, TrashMan said:That would be an interesting mechanic.
The game has the alien mothership moving around the map, nuking big cities, with smaller UFO's hitting smaller settlements and doing terror attacks.
You would be in a race against time to find a way to stop the mothership while there's still something left to save (and before humanity surrenders, although technically, you could still keep the game going after that, since you refused to surrender)
That’s pretty much what I proposed on the secret war thread for the second phase of all out war for the game. At first, the aliens only try attacking in remote areas to test our defenses. Then they start building bases and assassinating key VIPs and supporting certain third world countries to increase the DEFCON level and hopefully induced a WW3 scenario where they rule over the survivors. When that got foiled by Xenonauts, they would declare all out war with the Xenonauts desperately leading the charge to find a way to destroy their mothership in orbit while protecting the last remnant of the new world government (which based on your choices can be the NATO, the Warsaw Pact or even a new UN puppeted by Xenonauts). This will lengthen the game considerably and make the end game much less boring.
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I think it’s could be really cool if the soldiers stats also reflect in the air game. Maybe something about STR at certain threshold giving pilots different more varied ways of dodging fire from evasive roll to more advanced maneuvers, ACC giving a boost in rocket speed, and RFL giving a small bonus on cool down of dodging skills.
Downed pilots could be a cool way of implementing rescuing VIP missions. Where after a failed air combat session, the aliens will land to try and kill your pilot and your soldiers can intervene.
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7 hours ago, ooey said:
Nevertheless it's an easy way to get a bit more complexity into things with regards strategy, and fits in with the way things are going (i.e. dumping the Foxhound for a generic all-around aircraft).
Imagine holing up the last alien in a barn, your last sight of it being a Sebillian, only for a Reaper to burst out. It has its merits simply because it will keep you on your toes.
I think it would just be far better to just make a whole new enemy with tweaks to its AI, vision cone and weapon/skill load outs maybe different versions of already existing aliens. For instance an enemy that’s can fly like a Harridan but heavily armored and specialized on assault weapons like melee stun clubs, shotguns that can make fast attacks into the middle of your group of soldiers. Or an alien with a beam weapon/heavy artillery that can kill you soldiers in groups but is extremely lightly armored and need a turn or two to lock on to target, basically our version of a Doom Archville. Hell just an enemy that have two stages with the first being ranged and the second being melee focused would change the game base considerably. Or even a healer/mechanic alien. Or a trapper alien. The variety of game mechanics for enemies are limitless.
On 5/5/2020 at 6:55 AM, Comrade said:hard ish sci fi aspect of Xenonauts
Dude. The first game we already have our soldiers using singularity cannons, mind controlling psychics and aliens that can replicate themselves with eggs that grew in a pace that defied the common laws of thermodynamics like the Reapers. Xenonaus is NOT hard in any sense of the word. If we want the game to be actually hard sci-fi the aliens would just nuke the hell out of any big cities and ask for our surrender.
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2 hours ago, ooey said:
That alien right there looks like it will club you to death! Speaking of hand to hand combat, I can't remember if you could even do it in xen. Did anyone ever try it as a last resort?
To be fair in the book that alien is from they’re only seen to reach an early stage of making stone tools. Although they’re seen hunting and shooting down living jet plane animals with just spears so they’re indeed very strong.
I did remember one time, a sebilian commander dropped his weapon for no reason and I had one of my troop beat him to submission with a stun baton but that was it.
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Yeah I think I have to agree with @TrashMan here, one of the biggest fallback of the first Xenonauts was that it took away the asymmetrical nature of the original UFO defense which increased that game’s replayability tremendously. The first Xenonauts weapon progression was entirely number-based and wasn’t interesting at all. I basically was selling all old weapons without looking back every time I got a new weapon done. Making gameplay restrictive and disallowed any tactical maneuverability of the player.
Talking about weapon variety, I think the best way is not only making multiple types of Xenonauts weapons but more strange weapons for the aliens as well. Making it clear that the weapons we made are still based on the same principles as theirs but in a lot of ways very different. We still use alien alloys, alenium and their electrical circuits but in entirely different ways. For instance their beam weapon can be a microwave beam that can shoot through walls and covers but very short ranged compared to Xenonauts laser beams. Or instead of our usage of plasma as ammunition and explosives, they use it like a high powered flamethrower. Maybe rather than using the energy capacitor for mag weapons, they use it like an electric arc gun, shooting chain lightning that can hit multiple targets.
On 4/23/2020 at 5:28 PM, TrashMan said:what weapons would you even want to see in the game?
I want to see different variations of the same weapon type like you suggested but making them entirely based on what faction you work for to gain them.
- BALISTIC 2 Straight upgrade from regular Cold War weapons
US variant: Caseless ETC guns. Way more accurate but low ammo capacity and more APs to aim.
Soviet variant: Gyrojet guns. The farther the enemy, the more damage it does (the gyrojet sniper can’t even fire at close range). Huge ammo capacity, big damage but lower accuracy. Basically the 40k bolter.
- LASER more effective for mechanical enemies
US variant: Pulse laser. But rather than using more APs to aim, it’s a power setting for the shot. The sniper version is very powerful.
Soviet variant: Dune’s las gun cutting beams. The carbine version is just the 40k melta that can blow away doors (and anything behind it).
- PLASMA More effective to biological enemies
US variant: More easily controlled. Actually shoot bullets with plasma charges. Like a tiny version of the plasma missiles.
Soviet variant: Shoot real plasma bolts. Much more powerful but can overheat and inaccurate. Large blast radius.
- MAGNETIC
US variant: Rail gun for snipers and coil gun for the assault rifle and carbine which shoot hyper velocity flechettes. Huge rate of fire, easy to reload. Higher damage and armor penetration and previous weapons.
Soviet variant: Creates a field that rip apart armor and flesh in the molecular level. Huge APs cost each turn but can kill anything in one to two shots.
- NONLETHAL
Still the knockout gas, shock batons but now with higher tier weapons like tasers and neurolizers which can take control of civilians or stun aliens for one turn.
- FLAMETHROWER
US variant: fuel-based. Upgrade from regular napalm to alenium-laced gel that explodes after one turn to nanobot goo.
Soviet variant:Thermobaric shmel. Later can be upgraded to be able to penetrate armor and kill robotic enemies.
- ROCKET LAUNCHER at first still based on ammunition’s but later can get factional versions
US version: Swarm missiles
Soviet version: Advanced guided missiles. Can target anything within range and a vision lock from even other soldiers.
- OTHER Singularity cannon or teleport gun (literally teleports bombs into target, going through all armor).
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On 4/21/2020 at 2:08 PM, ooey said:
This is a good point. I like what chris did in xen 1 - you can still fire the weapons, but they are unwieldy and thus not very accurate.
That was great as well. But I would love for the alien weapons to be kinda similar to how Prawn weapons work in District 9. Where some like pistols and rifles can be used but very unwieldy but the heavy weapons are straight up unusable unless Xenonauts have researched devices that allow the troops to use them. These can be expanded to operating turrets of the alien ships, alien mortars and weapon platforms.
On 4/21/2020 at 2:29 PM, ooey said:Perhaps they could be akin to fast reconnaissance units that don't actually carry a weapon, but just do the spotting for the above/the rest of the aliens and need to be killed quickly, otherwise you are at risk of a Psi attack). Perhaps they can compensate for not having a weapon by temporarily halving the morale of any soldier that sees one (terror)? Basically neusiance units that must be eliminated as quickly as possible. Not all types of aliens have to be super powerful and carry weapons you know. Some can be true support units. Can you imagine being surrounded by floating eyes?!
Floating aliens are a really overused trope of the sci-fi game genre. I would love for the devs to make it as unique as possible without making it something as generic as a flying orb or eyeball. Maybe something like the Eosapien from Expedition where not only that they can float, they can “see” you through cover using sonars. Making them a specialist in using explosives like the deadly Plasma Cannons to just shoot our soldiers out of their hiding spots. Forcing the player to adapt and prioritize taking them down. Also thanks for reminding me how cool the physical cover of the original UFO game, that was so dope.
On 4/21/2020 at 8:28 AM, Comrade said:apparently the devs abandoned the Cold War era setting so I guess no more "turning point" battles there.
Ah, what a shame. Back during the kickstarter I was truly hopeful of Goldhawk expanding the setting and fully using the cool backdrop of the Cold War in the sequel like they promised.
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On 4/20/2020 at 4:49 PM, EurekaSeven said:
sorry that it actually don't have a FAL mod that i've mention before, maybe i mixed the fact with my earlier imagnination of having a Commonwealth weapons mod
Ah, I see you’re a man of culture as well
. Actually I know about mods that adds more starting guns. But in the context of your post, I thought you were talking about weapon mods as in attachments that modify the weapons.
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6 hours ago, indaris said:
Ixhcel as you present, is basically just a bipedial humanoid alien with extra arms. Something like the Elder Things from Lovecraft would avoid the bipedial symmetrical design.
I actually intended to post the Old Ones as an example but then backed out on that
. On the aspects of a possibility of an alien, I believe for a design to be plausible, they only need good sensory organs, powerful grasping limps and some intelligent the rest can be as free as any creator wants. In the case of just an alien with extra limps and without eyesight like the Ixchel can create some very interesting gameplay mechanics. For instance with multiple powerful arms they can fire and hold multiple weapons at the same time making them a level of flexibility unlike the Xenonaut soldiers but even better (3 pistols and a shield, one carbines and one sniper), while having only the sense of smell make them have a spherical vision rather than the normal cone of the other aliens making them difficult to just flank with a shotgun barrage. Or another example an alien like the Moties (from the book A Mote in God’s Eye), who have an asymmetrical body plan with two weak arms and a stronger single arm, can use a devastating melee weapon when closing in and shoot you with their rifles held by the weaker arms when they run away. The mutation of these species could be attributed to just genetic tampering by the Praetors.
6 hours ago, indaris said:There were some designs in the XCOM reboot that I liked. Mainly the Thin Men and the Seekers.
This I can really agree, the Thin men was a really inventive idea to incorporate the reptilian conspiracies into the game while being fitting for an infiltration style that the reboot was going for. But I can’t see that the enemy designs of the second game being any improvement upon the first. The Advent are just a justification of putting dudes with guns as the main goon type enemy for the XCOM to mop up, their gameplay variety was one dimensional at best while their armor was just generic sleek futuristic armor #32149 which can be easily outdone by even wolfenstein Nazis or half-life combine soldiers. The Faceless while being a very intelligent way of implementing shapeshifters back into the game (also good to scare the crap out of you once they suddenly transform) their design was really weak being just a shapeless blob with sharp claws something even the original three-eyed Thing from Who Goes There can out do.
5 hours ago, EurekaSeven said:they makes you feel like you are really fighting a plausible Alien alliance rather than some thing came from a 1970s era conspiracy magazines, you know, the ones would have the cover of women kidnapping by cthulhu monsters.
I mean an art style resembling old Cold War magazines was something the first game was going for and it really made it unique among its contemporaries. Some designs back then still really holds up even with their hammy-ness. Something the new reboot just can’t seem to do especially with XCOM 2 with their design being now even less inspired than 343 Halo in some cases.
With having said all that, I actually think that the mechanics behind both the Andromedons and Gate Keepers are good and should be copied to X2 with some kind of enemies that change phases after certain levels of damage is dealt. Maybe some kind of alien cyborg that after loosing 2/3rds of its hp or your soldiers landing a headshot can separate into two forms: One is the brutish host which would go bezerk without the controller; and the parasite that will jump onto your troops or civilians to mind jack them (they can be killed with electric batons or emp grenades).
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On 4/18/2020 at 7:59 PM, EurekaSeven said:
so i agree that adding some national variation into the earth-tech arsenal would be good, just let them share the upgrades but vary on stats (F-16 has faster speed, Mig29 carries more missiles, Mirage cheeper and Tornado stronger health.etc) and let players to decide their choice just like the weapon mods in X1.
Woah, X1 had weapon mods? I never knew that.
But I agree, adding more earth tech at first for some extra flavoring should always be commended. Further than that, what I was proposing is to not make it completely separated from the later part of the game like in X1. Where at first you can have so both Soviet and NATO weapons but by mid-game everything is just a linear tech advancement. The variety of faction tech should be further incorporated into the research tree to increase both the asymmetrical weapon and replayability of the game. The ability to research certain upgrades should be based on your favor with certain benefactor, some being locked behind a threshold of friendly relations. You can make a balancing act of helping both to get the general weapons with nifty add-ons. Or even better, go full factional to get the highest level tech of a single benefactor. For instance, if you help the NATO side, you can get an exclusive stealth nano-armor that can teleport to avoid enemies. On the other hand if you help the Warsaw Pact you can get a heavy dual weapon wielding heavy armor in the same mold as the cut Collosus armor of the first game, pretty much a walking mech. In a similar vein, the weapon progression could be modified to have different branches like a Soviet tesla arc/rad weapons, NATO EMP/Grey goo weapons, and neutral mag/singularity weapons. The same can be done for planes especially if each progressing planes from the MiG-29 and F-16 onward have different stats and configuration slots like FTL (the last tier being either based on the Soviet, NATO or neutral design).
On 4/18/2020 at 7:59 PM, EurekaSeven said:While speaking of Soviet introduction in different games peoples seems always take these questions in a extreme political way instead of the game design approach, just like this occation, deleting Foxtrot is an approach on game design but people take it as some political bias for no reasons.
I don’t see it as politically driven at all. Sometimes it’s just the cool factor and gameplay choice really. Especially based on this thread I just see posters not really caring about politics but the Cold War aesthetics. Like you, I also have a fascination for weird looking but futuristic military gears but with a slight preference for stuff from the Soviet bloc. I mean who could deny the simple awesomeness of some of the prototypes like Object 279, MiG-105 or the 1K17 Szhatie (a freaking tank with freaking laser beams on its turret!!!
)? But I agree, having just good looking weapons of neutral countries could be a good and easy way of solving this. Although my proposal could be really hard to implement seeing the virus situation in the UK now and it being a little too extensive for a small team like Goldhawk. I could help immensely with making the game not too repetitive in each playthrough as your choice in allies can both change the story ending and gameplay. Not to mention creating a unique feature that further differentiate the game from the current line of UFO-like games with the same generic sci-fi look (Phoenix Point despite trying to play up the factions still failed at doing anything other than adding unnecessary resources and not fleshing out any of them).
On 4/18/2020 at 7:59 PM, EurekaSeven said:Corret me for above if i'm wrong, because I was sticked with my impression on X1 that the game set in Cold War 1979, but the latest beta seems to set the timeline into current date of 2020. Is this a final setting for X2, or just a temporary feature?
Yeah, the devs did announced that they’re currently scrapping the Cold War setting. But seeing how receptive they’re in the forums and the later updates like returning the old base and air combat, to even rehiring the first game’s artist back into the project, I think this is also subject to change in the future.
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Yeah I think the first game improved on the formula of the original XCOM tremendously. Making it as much fun to play as OpenXCOM.
What I really want from the new sequel is to expand on every aspect like the expanded air combat, more things to do on the geoscape, the research tree being more open rather than just a straight line of progression, actual factionalism between our Earth benefactors to make the story more than just a fight against an alien invasion but a turning point to the Cold War as well,... On the ground combat I just want more variety of aliens to really show that the invaders are a truly big threat in the line of other alien conglomerates like the Combine or the Covenant and a more fleshed out psychic protection, ground vehicles for both our troops and the aliens, and first aid. Just the first game but better.
On 4/18/2020 at 6:11 AM, indaris said:Tetris UFOs are the most egregious example.
Yeah, this is a contentious issue for me as well. But hopefully with @Chris announcing that the recruitment of the first game’s artist, this will get fixed. The best case scenario is that we’ll get the cool ship designs of the first game, the worst is that it should look like OpenXCOM 40k mod which is still boxy but made an effort to look like something that flies and not a rectangular box.
42 minutes ago, ooey said:One thing that UFO has over xen is that it has a bit of alien 'wierdness' where xen doesn't. It would be nice to see floating eyes etc.
It would be really cool to see more unique aliens that don’t look humanoids. Really making it clear why we can’t just pick up and use their weapons.
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The plastic armor of the reboot is what put me off from the reboot once I actually finished playing it. Most of the suits just feel too random and weird to be from an actual military organization.
The only late tier armor I liked from the first game was the Buzzard and Sentinel. The rest could really use more details to make them more distinct.
Suggestion: Variable Selling Prices
in Xenonauts-2 General Discussion
Posted
I mean having an actual black market for factional dealings and morally ambiguous organizations should be more thematically fitting for an event-based economy. As it also implies that you can not only trade resources for money but for other things like personnel, research boosts, and relations with certain factions. Because if it’s always depends upon the price, it would push for hoarding strategies from the players to just make a gigantic storage base (because we now have storage capacity now based on the last update by Chris), wait until certain events or just save scumming and then sell it for massive profits. The other thing is that, an active open economy for selling alien material and parts would be bound for the massive corporations of the NATO side to dominate it. Also it would conceptually make it look like the main focus of Xenonauts is to work more as alien poachers who mine their ships for profit rather than the only edge for humanity in the war against their invasion.
Events should pop up similar to games like the Hoi series where certain faction offer to trade some of your alien weapons for different bonuses in funding or others but they also have another effect of worsening your relations with their competitor while making the faction you help have a boost in tech sharing. This could lead to hilarious pop ups in late game that shows the results of your choice. Maybe you only funded a certain side so that leads to things like another Cuban missile crisis where the Soviets use alien augmented ships to deter the US response, or the Berlin Wall fell due to US funded contras with alien weapons breaching it. Maybe you only choose things that further cement the power of the Xenonauts in where you openly coup the government of the two sides of the Cold War and take over the world in the name of planetary security.
This could be a cool DLC idea later down the line or a mod to expand the game.