Charon
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Posts posted by Charon
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@PALU Im also working on a the maim idea for shotguns and other weapons. You basically deduct TU for the next turn if damage gets through. How does that sound ? Do you think that has a place in the game ?
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@PALU I want to add the andron terror corpses in the appropriate robodogs. Can you remove the dummy from the andron terror androns ? Is that ok ?
Edit: Hold on a second.
So there is no way to add corpses to drops, which is not the main one.Edit2: So i added the disassembled items from the andron terror soldier, warrior, elite and officier to the robodog terror soldier, warrior, roboreaper terror elite and robodog ghost manufacture. This avoids the problem of producing another corpse in ground combat and fits nicely into the exisiting transformer lore. manufactures.xml
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I need some input. We have the chance for TU damaging weapons, but the AP damage only works if the weapon does damage in the first place. So this works best for weapons which already have a high penetration ( like snipers ), but it should actually be a buff for low penetration weapons ( like shotguns ). Any ideas on how to balance this out ?
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1 hour ago, PALU said:
A possible backup recovery would be to have sufficiently high ranking interview subjects provide you with the info you need to proceed with something you ought to have gotten a fair bit earlier. If so, the base stuff could be unlocked by a phase 3 leader, small base results by the corresponding phase 3 leader, and medium base by the phase 4 leader, or possibly all of those being unlocked by the phase 4 leader. That, of course, would mean messing with the research tree.
I thought about it ... and all it does is streamline the game for players who dont explore every angle of the game. There is a reason why chemical warfare is xenomorph/reaper exclusive. There is a reason why you definitely need to capture a technician unit. There is a reason why you won´t be able to produce assimilated alien interceptor without the navigator class. Streamlining the game just rewards less thinking and less gameplay. Whats the point of making a plan, when higher level research unlocks everything later on anyway ? If you are missing something, you are missing something.
Apart from that once the first construction missions spawn there will be the Lore+ construction mission entry for people to read. Jumping from the information "Aliens are trying to build bases" to the conclusion "Maybe i should let them build a base ?" is not a big one. Even mulligan comes to this thought in his videos very early on. But either you are premasticating every bit of gameplay for the player or you will just give them the information and let them come to their own ideas and conclusions.
Look, the point im trying to make is that todays video games try to put an illusionary freedom of choice on you. X-Division on the other hand gives you the tools and lets you explore valid strategies for yourself. That necessarily has to include failing, otherwise it wouldnt be a free choice. But you have to start small. Giving players the challenge of coming to their own conclusion will mature them. To start thinking for yourself is something no game, and no person is able to give you. You can only take it. But in order for you to start your journey somebody/something needs to pose a challenge. You need to make a point to yourself why you should put energy into independence, and somebody has to make a case for it, to you. This is why having the small steps of coming to your conclusions really matter. And i consider the voluntary construction of alien bases a really small hop, but in the great scheme of things a big step for the player.
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1 hour ago, PALU said:
I also suspect the condition for Caesan Data Hack 8 is incorrect: "Researches.CaesanOperatorAssault1Interrogation" should probably have a "3" rather than a "1".
Nice Catch ! Real good one. Fixed.
1 hour ago, PALU said:I'm also having a bit of a problem with one gameplay logic: If you're too successful in shooting down/raiding landed UFOs you won't get any small or medium bases, with their associated research benefits. This is on top of the issue with base establishment being fairly rare missions, so out of the 6 missions I've had 3 were Caesan and the other 3 were blasted Andron ones, but no Sebillians in sight (and I deliberately did allow two to become outposts: the first one to gain the rather important equipment research you get, and the second one in the hope the Andron landing ship crew would build a base crewed by aliens you could interrogate. but no: they built an Andron controlled base).
Yeah, thats definitely an issue. Playing the best can sometimes hurt you more than it does good.
We tried to tackle the issue by giving them a 40% chance to spawn better escorts, and a 10% chance to spawn "impossible" escorts. Still this doesnt distract from the fact you can fairly easily raid them when they are landing. Nothing we can do about that. The "proper" solution would be to make something unbeatable build a base. But that is not really how we initially envisioned base construction missions to be. In the end this is just the ARMA syndrome, if you give the player a maximum of choices than statistically they are bound to get things wrong. Either we give the player the choice to mess up, or we dont. There is really no inbetween here.
Edit: We could also make special construction mission UFOs which carry alien base equipment and base operators as it logically should be. But thats an insane mountain of work which occurs too late into the development. No game is perfect, but some are pretty good.
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22 hours ago, PALU said:
I would change this by keeping research unchanged (or, optionally, mostly unchanged) and adjust the texts:
Research and the Xpedia are 2 totally different development entities in X-Division and dont have anything to do with each other. Research won´t change, the Xpedia content will always have to be the one to get adapted, unless there are gamepaly reasons to change the research tree.
Other than that if you think you can make higher quality entries than currently present you can go ahead and change them to your liking. I guess you will have to look at the rsearch itself which can logically follow after each other. Personally i would just set the order to what a normal playthrough would lead to. There will always be unaccountable research paths in minor cases, nothing we can effectively do about that.
22 hours ago, PALU said:It can be noted that there isn't anything in the texts currently about needing an AI for alien base access (or I've failed to find it), and unless I've misread the research dependencies, Andron Intel isn't required for the end game: it seems to "only" open up some equipment? If such a dependency is set up, I'd probably have Pre Operation Endgame request the AI as well as the Psionic.
Well, yeah. The andron AI opening up the the final base was purely a lore point, and we didnt implement any research conditions for it. If there would have been conditions, it would have most likely have been roborex ones, and in retrospect im happy about not implementing that.
About implementing that now. There are too many connections and text connected to the endgame content so i would need to change quite a lot, which i won´t. So since there are no hard research conditions you can either put that under the things which never got realised, or purely add some lore flavour to it.
22 hours ago, PALU said:I think I've compensated for that loss in the latest texts, but you'd still miss out on the combat bonus. Dropping both corpses would make absolutely no sense if the units are one and the same, so if the corpses need to be restored I'd suggest making some terror unit roles "flawed" so they die rather than turn into a box (unless there's a way to give box conversion a 90% or so chance, with a 10% chance of death).
Nope, the code doesnt work like that.
I think dropping both corpses would make sense if you say the robodogs store some additional ( unused ) andron parts after the transformation. From a gameplay experience i think the player should get both resources because he killed both units. But im split on how to do this.
I think thats it for now. Would be nice if we had some robodog disassembly pictures, but alas, we dont.
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7 hours ago, PALU said:
I haven't tried to tackle the Andron AI. Doing that would require identifying every relevant entry (making sure none are missed), and try to sort them into an order of events, which would undoubtedly mess up research.
Why would it mess with the research ? Ofcourse there are dozent of minor contradictions or possible contradictions based on the order of research. But what if a player never gets a server or a terminal, and goes straight to the controller AI ? That doesnt make sense. So in order to fix that we would 1. need to tie higher level research to lower level research, in order to have control over things and 2. make higher level drops unlock lower level research when lower level drops are no longer available. You could say we could do that, but i personally think that would mess with the independence of research feeling. Why do you have to first research lower level entries when the higher ones are directly in front of your nose ? And it also doesnt really simulate time quite well when you research hub, server and terminal units in one go and the entries state "months have passed". So in order to preserve the gameplay feeling ( which is the highest priority ) there doesnt seem to be a feasable solution to simulate "time" and "effort" in Xpedia entries. Maybe Xpedia entries where "time" plays a role is misguided in the first place ? Dunno. Maybe you can make something out of it, or change something up.
Quoteexected
expected
QuoteWe still struggle to see the purpose of the Roboreaper form, though.
Explanation:
Quote1:35:00 Are the roboreapers to your tastes now ? With ranged weapons their smoke actually protects them for the turn and thuse make you see ( and deal ) with every roboreaper stage possible. From ranged supporter to melee killer you will have to make a plan for what is best for your situation. The ranged weaponry has mitigation abilities paried with low emp/stun and saps TUs from your soldier if it hits. This makes it dangerous to your vehicle as well as your soldiers. Not the powerhourse of the andron race the roboreaper is an expendable scout with personal shield and smoke generator to stay alive as long as possible while giving real time battlefield intel to harder hitting units. These abilities make it into an excellent scout/support unit on the battlefield.
As mentioned they are scout/support units on the field, as well the only unit which actually has a viable stun option. Not that that is necessary for androns, but its nice to have the option for it.
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9 hours ago, Svinedrengen said:
Changing the AI props in game will take effekt right ?
The main X-Division one, yes, should.
4 hours ago, PALU said:When doing that, I realized the entries on Andron Terror troop disassembly are dummies, as no "corpses" are generated,
Hm ... now that you say that it indeed sounds something like an oversight. I can make the dogs drop the andron corpse too. Would that tie into the game ok-ish ?
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7 hours ago, Svinedrengen said:
Okay if it wont help, then I wont bother trying.
Dont trust my words, try it out.
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55 minutes ago, adriel said:
hello charon been following xdivision pretty long now,
i want ti update from 0.99.44 to 1.00.00 (im not sure what version i download the last time, but when i check, i see 0.9.44 in launcher modding tools)
do i need to redownload 3 part file or just patch it?
Please read the installation instructions.
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3 hours ago, Svinedrengen said:
How about if I did something as simple as give them more TUs ? That shouldnt screw up something should it ? I would like them to be faster and more of a threat, than they are now.
Wouldnt fix anything.
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Looks like we are blowing up. @Solver
We must have gotten featured somewhere, but i didnt find out where.
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6 hours ago, Svinedrengen said:
I believe the whole refitting subject is from the original lore, and doesnt fit with the alternative storyline Charon made for X-Division a while back that tells us why they come and the 4 phases in the game.
@Charon can probably explain this much better.
6 hours ago, PALU said:I've never really understood the phases at all from a logical perspective, and has filed it under the "don't ask about the logic category".
Its relatively easy to understand. Yes, the aliens need to refit their UFOs, however, the process is much faster than the original lore suggests.
The 4 Phases are easy to explain as well, its a vanilla lore point. The aliens are not enslaving humanity because humanity is actually that successfull in defending the planet, but rather because they try to see if there is genetic material on earth which is worth integrating into their own. X-Division is basically the Hunger Games for Xenonauts. Aliens sitting in a white room, pressing buttons to release the Roborex to see how Katniss Everdeen reacts to it. Every now and then they send some terror ships or base attacks and adjust the difficulty a bit up by releasing slightly better UFOs and troops. None of the war on Earth is EVER getting taken seriously. Maybe serious for humanity, but not for the Praetors.
On 10/20/2018 at 9:55 AM, Svinedrengen said:About the vehicle issue, will they target vehicles if they also have opportunity to target hosts? Because that would feel a little wrong if they do, I dont really mind if vehicles is the only thing in its reach.
Yes, that "little wrong" thing is the reason why its not in the base game. Its hard to say what the AI will be doing as we havent tested it, but it should react like the standart reaper AI, first for civilians/locals and then 50/50 for vehicles and troops ( by equal proximity ).
On 10/20/2018 at 1:17 PM, PALU said:- Wraith Class Analysis: Would probably fit best with being triggered by any Wraith Interrogation. Would work with other phase 2 interrogations, though.
From Items.WraithOfficerCorpse(OR)Items.WraithWarriorCorpse to Researches.WraithVivisection.
On 10/20/2018 at 1:17 PM, PALU said:- Harridan Class Analysis: Analogous with the Wraith one, but for Harridans, of course.
From Items.HarridanOfficerCorpse(OR)Items.HarridanWarriorCorpse to Researches.HarridanVivisection
On 10/20/2018 at 1:17 PM, PALU said:Andron Class Analysis: Should probably be triggered by the Soldier or Server disassembly.
From Items.AndronSoldierCorpse to Researches.AndronSoldierDisassembly.
On 10/20/2018 at 1:17 PM, PALU said:- Advanced Andron Class Analysis: Triggered by Elite or Terminal disassembly.
From Items.AndronWarriorCorpse(OR)Items.AndronEliteCorpse to Researches.AndronEliteDisassembly.
On 10/20/2018 at 1:17 PM, PALU said:- Sebillian Non-Combatant Analysis: Interrogation of any Sebillian (and since the lower ones are unlocked by the capture of higher ones, I think the lowest tier is sufficient).
From Items.SebillianNonCombatantCorpse to Researches.SebillianAutopsy.
On 10/20/2018 at 1:17 PM, PALU said:- Sebillian Class Analysis: Any phase 2 Sebillian interrogation.
From Items.SebillianSoldierCorpse to Researches.SebillianSoldierVivisection.
On 10/20/2018 at 1:17 PM, PALU said:- Advanced Sebillian Class Analysis: Any Phase 4 Sebillian interrogation.
From Items.SebillianEliteCorpse(OR)Items.SebillianWarriorCorpse to Researches.SebillianEliteVivisection.
On 10/20/2018 at 1:17 PM, PALU said:- Caesan Non-Combatant Analysis: Interrogation of any Caesan.
From Items.CaesanNonCombatantCorpse to Researches.CaesanAutopsy.
On 10/20/2018 at 1:17 PM, PALU said:- Caesan Class Analysis: Any phase 2 Caesan interrogation.
From Items.CaesanSoldierCorpse to Researches.CaesanSoldierVivisection.
On 10/20/2018 at 1:17 PM, PALU said:- Advanced Caesan Class Analysis: Any Phase 4 Caesan interrogation.
From Items.CaesanEliteCorpse(OR)Items.CaesanWarriorCorpse to Researches.CaesanEliteVivisection
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16 minutes ago, PALU said:
Do harridans have to stand on something? I've definitely gotten the impression they're firing from in flight, sometimes hovering in place for several rounds while firing, and finally go splat when shot down from their stationary position?
Nope. They fly, land, shoot, and fly again.
16 minutes ago, PALU said:It's certainly the case that "make sure Lore++ is correct" -> "rewrite from scratch" -> "and add this stuff" reeks of scope creep... I'll start/continue with the Lore++ rewrite. When done, I'll take a look at vivisection (there's a fair number of those entries), fixing spelling/typing and other minor issues along the line. Once done I'll consider additional stuff. You've seen the speed I work at, so it will take time.
Scope creep (also called requirement creep, or kitchen sink syndrome) in project management refers to changes, continuous or uncontrolled growth in a project’s scope, at any point after the project begins.[1] This can occur when the scope of a project is not properly defined, documented, or controlled. It is generally considered harmful.[2] It is related to but distinct from feature creep.
Ive read through the other entries, and i think they are fine. I completely dont have a problem with describing units in detail after the fact they are encountered/interrogated. Only the harridan/wraith ones were problematic. Ofcourse if you want to revise them and up the quality a bit im not going to stop you, just saying the quality standart is reached.
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1 hour ago, PALU said:
• As a result of the previous point, Harridans have no problems firing weapons while flying.
They still need to stand on something.
Otherwise you NAILED it ! Congratulations.
On 10/20/2018 at 1:17 PM, PALU said:I think some entries have been scrambled over time. There's one very late entry where you extract an Andron AI ("Skynet") and a much earlier entry where that AI signals being broken by the "torture" of isolation with Tetris. The AI should probably have been extracted from the earliest Andron boss analysis (i.e. usually Hub). If so, the AI itself would probably be the same in all Andron bosses, with the difference being the "bodies" they're hosted in (including their "brains"). I think the late entry doesn't actually do anything currently.
Yes, the AI thing is the basic idea but the entries scattered and scrambled everywhere after a while. If you want you can rewrite the whole idea.
Here are some points:
- You can start suggesting an AI with the hub unit.
- Ther terminal unit should be the "captured" AI
- with the controller unit the AI shhould start to "help" us a bit ( think force shield )
- The final mission is an alien base, which we need a fully capable AI to open the doors, so somewhere between controller and end mission we need to get some more "access"
Also recently i wrote this youtube comment.
QuoteThe reason why terror dogs are carrying them ( or toxic weapons ) is that every terror dog is/was a terror andron soldier, transforming into a highly mobile dog. There is a lot of lore put behind that transforming stuff, but none of that is written yet.
If you want to write the lore for the androns here are some basic concepts:
- The basic idea is that robodogs and androns are transformers that can freely transform between these forms, under certain circumstances.
- While the andron unit is rather slow and dangerous, the robodog is rather fast but doesnt really have the "bite" to make up for it. The robodog form is rather a form of travel, or where movement trumps more damage ( like killing civs )
- Normal andron units cannot freely change their form, they dont have the energy for it. Pods inside dedicated andron UFOs can do this however.
- Terror androns are special in that regard that they can switch to 1 terror robodog or roboreaper after "destruction". The decision on which form to switch to depends on the battlefield situation and its detailed functions are unclear.
Maybe you can make something out of that.
A few lore points you can integrate if you want to:
- Everything above Leader Class aliens get directly commanded/controlled by Praetors, in one way or another. They can still let lower class units take command on an operation if they want to, but usually direct their troops directly, whether they are present in ground combat or not.
Am i giving you too much work ?
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@PALU Maybe you can simply write a new style entry for "Class Analysis" in the way you want it to ? Never mind what Lore+ wrote before that.
Edit: Here is a nice blooper:
QuoteTheir armour can not be disassembled to provide us with 32 Light Fibres and and 16 Dense Fibres.
How sad
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QuoteThe Xenomorph Empress is the untimate pinnacle
ultimate
QuoteCasesan
Caesan
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1 minute ago, PALU said:
I don't think the Andron Vivisection fits in, as that's basically taken care of by getting the Andron AI.
Aye.
1 minute ago, PALU said:Harridan/Wraith Class analysis: I was trying to massage the existing texts to sort of make them fit and not be too incorrect, not replace them completely, which is what you suggest. The images doesn't really help that part either.
I will try a "complete conversion", but I expect there will be some holes in it that will be obvious to those who know things better than I do.
The point which i found to out of line was the description of things which were not encountered by the player yet ( Lore+ ). And then you go ahead and extrapolate that style to an even greater degree
. What i actually wanted was to soften clarity on things which are not correct ( like the refitting of UOs ), and to remove things which the player hasnt encountered yet. So that is my goal. So yes, maybe a whole conversion is better.
Dont worry about knowledge you dont have. You have my knowledge at disposal and the whole community can help with the entries. We can all point out features we think are important.
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9 hours ago, PALU said:
As I'm changing things all over the place it shouldn't take long to make that change, especially given that there aren't that many armors. I'm trying to fix the spelling/typing errors I find, for instance, as I think those are unsightly. The things I'm hesitant about are ones that would require a lot of effort, such as making a change to every entry.
You should simply be able to power search "action" with sublime text and get everything listed in an instant.
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7 hours ago, PALU said:
- I don't think the last Lore++ entry appears, i.e. the Andron Vivisection one.
That is correct. The item which triggers it no longer drops during the game. Do you want to have that entry ?
I have started to read the Wraith and Harridan Class Analasys and i dont geti it. How you can you describe in detail what a unit is wearing, which kind of guns it carries into battle and how advanced verions behave without ever having met them. This kind of information is way more suited for the Vivisection entries, where you actually capture a unit and then get the information for it. The same goes for terror units, into the vivisection section with it. The purpose of the Class Analysis is not to analyse individual units, but to point out common features and tactics against them. Like
- Wraiths are very hard to suppress in general due to the 0.3 multiplier
- Harridans have longer sight range than standart races
- Wraiths seem to be susceptible to chemical damage, since they have a lot of exposed flesh ( Terror Elite: <Armour kinetic="126" energy="180" chemical="30" incendiary="90" /> )
- Wraiths like to teleport a lot, dont expect it to run through stun gas
- Harridans mostly seem to use longer range weapons
- etc ...
but not about certain units.
I would ask you to move the content about individual units to the vivisection ones, and rewrite all class analysis from scratch. As a rule of thumb, never use "soldier" "warrior" "elite" or "terror". Just describe common features among the whole race.
I think you will have to look a bit for it in the game files, but we can also ask the @community on general perceived behaviour of all the units.
Once that is done i will continue with the work.
Edit: Im also unhappy with a part of the Weapn Mass Production about the refitting of UFOs.
QuoteFurthermore, the xenoastronomy lab reports the alien armada appears to be have completed refitting their small/medium crafts (as we have seen ourselves) for atmospheric flight, are well underway with their medium ones, and have even started on their largest ones. Expect to see gradually larger and more dangerous craft in the sky, Commander! They're definitely coming for us.
Well, first, they havent, and secondly, terror carrier already started to appear. So that doesnt really fit together with X-Division lore. Maybe you can revise those lines a bit ?
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29 minutes ago, Svinedrengen said:
How much "nerfed" is a little bit ?
They dont hide very well, they dont straight attack civilians, they dont use their maximum tu in order to get an attack in if they can, and they mostly only attack when they are already close in proximity to the unit. They mostly look scary like a pop-balloon, but arent.
29 minutes ago, Svinedrengen said:With all mods and on NG difficulty it looks like everything is covered. The only thing I can think of rigth now could be higher soldier stats in general, but that also seems covered with "never die" mod. But I remember hearing people think the soldier stats are too low.
soldier stats are are about the save game, they are not reversible. I can also not change the recruitment range because they only get refreshed every month. In general i try to stay close to the original game, so that you can easily switch and only moderately get a boost.
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Just now, Svinedrengen said:
Yes. I have savefile.
Ok. Thank you.
3 minutes ago, Svinedrengen said:Well then where is the "swarm" mod (100% more aliens in GC) and the "overrun" mod (200%)
Well, i was also thinking about things which make the game more difficult. But not in a straight way, but in a more roundabout way.
As a matter of fact during the last AI development stages the facehugger AI got a little bit "nerfed", and as a result is more docile than it actually can be. There was no way to fix it without allowing them to attack vehicles for a large damage portion. Im thinking about adding them into the game again as the "Empower Facehugger Option". This does not fundamentally change the game, but improves on the AI of facehuggers a lot with the side effect that it also can attack vehicles.
I i would be open for suggestions for meaning improvements on the difficulty.
I am still open for meaningfull changes which makes the game more enjoyable for casual players. One slot is still open.
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Just now, Svinedrengen said:
Is that enough ?
NG difficulty ?
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13 minutes ago, Svinedrengen said:
Do you still need help with this ?
Yes.
14 minutes ago, Svinedrengen said:Hmm, arent there missing some of the new mods in the latest version and in your description ?
?
[1.65/X.CE V0.35.0] X-Division 1.00 Beta (1.00.11c)
in Completed Game Mods
Posted · Edited by Charon
Once the first point of damage is done the full AP penalty is applied.
This is also the reason why it is so hard to find a useful niche for it, because once all the armour is gone you kill a unit in one or two shots anyway. Once again this is more likely to be a feature which supports trying to stun a single target. Think about reapers with 40% less TU at the start of the turn and you will see where it really shines.
Edit: I also really would like to have a visual indication of the AP damage, in the same manner as the suppression one. But without XCE we cant fix anything in that regard. Every feature needs a lot of support to even remotely start being fun and integrated.