Solarius Scorch Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 only viable method to balance weapons and armor and everything else is to actually limit carry capacity of xenonauts, at each stage, player shoud be forced to decide, top armor or top weapon or TU penalty. I don't really think it'll work so simply. What is relatively light for a veteran, resulting in only slight TU penalty, would be nearly impossible to lift for a rookie. I don't want to be virtually unable to hire new rookies in late game, and the fortunately devs seem to go in the same direction. The only doable way of differencing armours without a complete overhaul of the mechanics is creating several types of armour of similar level but different roles... But it's already in the game, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RawCode Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 if you hire rookies you wont be able to give them top armor and top weapon without any training, this is very realistic, someone who never seen powered suits and laser rifles just can't use them effectively. soo when you hire rookies, you will give them outdated armor and outdated weapons, this will keep all items usefull at all times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solarius Scorch Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 if you hire rookies you wont be able to give them top armor and top weapon without any training, this is very realistic, someone who never seen powered suits and laser rifles just can't use them effectively.soo when you hire rookies, you will give them outdated armor and outdated weapons, this will keep all items usefull at all times. I thought about it too, but wouldn't it be weird to have soldiers using various tech levels at the same time? That's like giving your rookies Remmington, because they can't handle M16s yet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mytheos Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Considering the Devs are thinking about changing STR/Stat Progression/Inventory Management... It seems like the best thing is to just keep it simple for now. The changes Aaron mentioned would be a good start, going beyond that without knowing for sure how other factors will work out would be a bit inefficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dranak Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 if you hire rookies you wont be able to give them top armor and top weapon without any training, this is very realistic, someone who never seen powered suits and laser rifles just can't use them effectively.soo when you hire rookies, you will give them outdated armor and outdated weapons, this will keep all items usefull at all times. No, it isn't realistic because no commander would send troops into the field with equipment they aren't trained on. Therefor it's reasonable to assume that all new Xeno recruits undergo basic orientation and training on all weapons/armor in use. The way strength is handled in the game is kind of silly, since you wouldn't actually get large gains in strength from running combat ops, but I imagine it'll be tweaked as we go forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRat Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 (edited) No, it isn't realistic because no commander would send troops into the field with equipment they aren't trained on.Hello? Have you never been on a mission commanded by thothkins? You should ask him about the time he forgot to requistion any weapons for a recovery mission. It was like team Ultimate Fighting. Edited July 23, 2013 by StellarRat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kat Tsun Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Remove sight penalty on Jackal, up the protection very slightly. Keep Wolf armour as it is though as its only a marginal upgrade and looks like it should have a sight penalty. This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RawCode Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 i telling abouth BOTH armor and weapon, not soo elite units can't handle top armor and top weapon at same time, but can handle outdated armor and top weapon or top weapon and outdated armor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thothkins Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 look, there's no point training them if they aren't going to survive. Why waste the money,. That they won't survive due to having had no training is beside the point. Actually, remember that bug that removed all of the soldiers' equipment? I did go into combat with half an equipped squad. I'm sure there's a let's play that shows the same thing. On Dranak's point, I think history shows any number of armies that have had to improvise with unfamiliar equipment. Who have been forced into using tactics and equipment at short notice or no notice at all. And that have been severely hampered by lack of resources or logistical support. As for strength on later equipment. With the lack of a training programme in the game, I've always felt that the strength stat also showed how to get the best distribution out of your equipment as possible. About how to handle it in the terrain and against the foes the Xenonauts face regularly. So, it's not just a raw power thing. It seems to make more sense than two guys, supposedly being near the peak of their soldiering abilities, but with one who can;t put on some armour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRat Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Yeah that was a "funny" bug. Happened to me too! I ended doling out spare pistols and grenades to my impoverished soldiers. Still won the mission! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thothkins Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I think it says something about game difficulty when you can go into a mission with the worst weapons, some double sided cellotape and a couple of tin cans and still win. As for the bug, I had seen the let's play before it happened to me. I smugly thought "Well, I'll never do that." and of course promptly did an hour later. D'Oh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRat Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I think it says something about game difficulty when you can go into a mission with the worst weapons, some double sided cellotape and a couple of tin cans and still win. As for the bug, I had seen the let's play before it happened to me. I smugly thought "Well, I'll never do that." and of course promptly did an hour later. D'Oh! If it would have been a terror mission I would have been in deep sh^&, but it was only a light scout. Terror missions are the ones that scare me. I'd have to say the most difficult mission I ever attempted were when the AI had that bug that allowed it to see everything and gave it a ton of TUs. Those terror missions were just, well, terrifying. Coming back with two surviving was a "GOOD" mission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dranak Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 look, there's no point training them if they aren't going to survive. Why waste the money,. That they won't survive due to having had no training is beside the point. Actually, remember that bug that removed all of the soldiers' equipment? I did go into combat with half an equipped squad. I'm sure there's a let's play that shows the same thing. On Dranak's point, I think history shows any number of armies that have had to improvise with unfamiliar equipment. Who have been forced into using tactics and equipment at short notice or no notice at all. And that have been severely hampered by lack of resources or logistical support. As for strength on later equipment. With the lack of a training programme in the game, I've always felt that the strength stat also showed how to get the best distribution out of your equipment as possible. About how to handle it in the terrain and against the foes the Xenonauts face regularly. So, it's not just a raw power thing. It seems to make more sense than two guys, supposedly being near the peak of their soldiering abilities, but with one who can;t put on some armour. Fair enough, I should have added the word "voluntarily" in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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