Procedurally-Based Maps

[Goetikmagus]

The creator of the original X-Com, every time he's interviewed, has pounded home the concept of procedurally-based combat zones. The way I see it...

If all of the effort that is put forward into developing static maps were put forward into generating a procedure; You'd never have the tedium of playing the same map, ever again. You'd never have to design another map, ever again - you'd only have to tweak the procedure. It would make it easier for modders as well, because they could add or subtract simple elements of the procedure - rather than having to create an entirely new map.

It would solve some of the elevation problems, by making them a universal situation, rather than something that is singular to a particular map. It would add some thrill to the game - with each player understanding that, every time they land, they won't be able to predict the environment. All-in-all, I think it would make the game better, and would detract absolutely no time or effort from development.

So... why hasn't it happened, yet?

[lightgemini]

Problem is that procedural battlefield on xcom game would be a pain in the ass to do, and im sure its actually off the scope for a Little indie game like this.

Reasons are that the map needs to make sense with all the available props, buildings, terrain etc. and teaching a computer what makes sense and what doesnt is so complex that is not really worth the effort having already very high potential for randomnes in current maps.

For an ARMA game it could be done as long as the most fine detailed parts like towns or bases are made by hand, but Xcom like games just is not worth it at all, unless you want to bring it to the next level and have open maps that have no border limits and battles play in a very large área RUSE style for example. Then it would fit better as long as you still make most of the finer detail by hand or premade submaps.

Then you have BALANCE, with caps , as an unbalanced map walks a very fine line between "realism" and "outrageous". Handing you a balanced map for you to battle on it helps a lot in overall enjoyment of the game, and it cant be teached to a computer.

[Goetikmagus]

Balance would be lain out ~by~ the procedure. Having a procedure necessarily indicates "I need a map this (x) big. I need it to incorporate these (x) elements. Make it happen.".

Sometimes, I might add, "outrageous" is, in fact, realism. You wouldn't believe the missions I've been thrown through - yet every time, my company and I had to treat it as "normal". Why should things be that much different for the XNs? Oh, sure... typical sweep-and-clear ground mission, based upon a shot-down UFO... except this time, it's teetering off of a cliff? That sure sounds like realism to me. If not, it at least sounds cinematic enough to make it into the game.

[Max_Caine]

Totally random maps (not procedural, but totally random each time) are possible. It was the intention of Xenonauts to orginally have totally random maps all of the time. I have seen this change. Mothman and I discussed why a while ago. But totally random maps are still completely possible. Orumo made maps based on a generator a while ago. Why hasn't it happened? Perhaps it's easier to make a map than it is to work out the bugs of random or procedurally generated maps. Perhaps it's beyond the toolset developed. Perhaps it's beyond the engine (as crappy as it is). For whatever reason, map design changed from totes random to semi-random to totes designed.

[thothkins]

the random, or even semi random were strong points for the game. Can only hope for sufficient maps to avoid too much repetition on launch.

[DNK]

The whole map doesn't need to be procedural, just like it wasn't in XCOM. All you need are to have pre-made submaps (not just buildings but whole plots, including ground, props, and buildings) and then have 5-10 map templates each with multiple slots for premade submaps. Some submaps would be smaller, like 15x20, others larger like 30x40. Pretty sure that's how XCOM did it, and it worked pretty well. There was still a lack of variety, especially in farm maps which only had a small set of pre-made submaps (orchard, empty field, field, wheat field, sheds, house, barn), but the mod community can take care of that (though it couldn't due to engine limits in XCOM).

I think this can be done with the current system: just allow submaps to include ground textures (already possible?), and then allow for a randomized submap building (I think also already possible) that will choose between a certain set, and then make new maps for these.

Viola.

[Solarius Scorch]

My thought exactly, DNK. The only maps that may cause problems would be town maps, but I don't think it'd be that hard to make streets match.

Frankly, I'm a little torn here: on one hand, Goldhawk Interactive clearly made a decision to not have random maps, and whining about it seems kinda dickish. On the other hand, I can't get rid of the feeling of disappointment deep inside me, and it seems to be rather prevalent among the community... Oh well, we'll see what happens.

[Max_Caine]

I would suggest looking at what mappers have had to say on the subject of randomised maps.