Commander Difficulty - 180 Days

[doubleskulls]

I've just finished 180 days on commander level, and thought I'd provide some feedback. There are probably spoilers if you haven't finished the EA yet. 

In general I think X2 is excellent, and I'm really looking forward to each of the milestones as it improves. The gameplay is often tense and missions are full of interesting tactical decisions. It really has captured the feel and gameplay of the originals. 

How I played

I was not trying to RP, but to do the best I could. So I was min/maxing where I thought it appropriate. 

My initial base I built extra living quarters, workshop, lab, medical & training initially. Went up to 3 labs in month 2, and got up to 26 soldiers in the initial base, adding a 2nd radar and generator as needed. My other bases were just 2 hangers, access lift, radar, apart from the 2nd base which also had an extra hangar, and eventually 3 workshops and 2 living quarters. I finished with 3 bases, 8 Phantoms, with my 4th base starting on day 181. Secondary bases were defended by Sentry Guns, which won a base defence mission with 10 units. 16 is cheaper to hire and lower cost than actual soldiers.

Research, I took Warden Armour second, skipped Magnetic Weapon research and went straight to Lasers.  After that largely focussed on cash and improvements to the air war - more bases/radar, more Phantom Interceptors. I retired both Angels as soon as I could replace them as their maintenance is the same as a Phantom. Up until the end of EA, a Phantom with a pair of Laser Lances, and once I had it the armour upgrade, were good enough for every UFO I faced.  

Tactical missions. I was not playing anything like perfectly or as patiently as say TorNis does. Mars died on the 2nd cleaner mission, and I never bothered getting another one. With 9 soldiers I'd generally be taking 2 shields, 2 heavies, 2 snipers, 2 assault and I was experimenting with grenadier (either with a HEVY or just grenades), but I think 3 shields would be better when without the Mars. With 12, it was 3 shields, 2 heavies, 3 snipers, 2 assault, 2 riflemen. I equipped Assaults and Riflemen with shields to leave in the dropship, so there were spares if needed, and every soldier was fully loaded with grenades and other equipment, dropping what they can't carry on turn 1.  

Most missions don't have a timer, so I can slowly scout with Shields, and then pick off aliens with Snipers.  Using the other soldiers to provide additional firing options, and/or reaction cover during the alien turn. Assaults were primarily for UFO breaches. I use the tactic of blocking up doors, so most UFOs are quite straightforward to take down, just putting everyone in front of the door, open it, kill/stun all aliens, block up the next door. 

Feedback

Difficulty - the first couple of months I think the difficultly level is spot on (and I don't think the cleaner missions needed to be made easier). However after getting lasers & warden armour I'd rarely lose someone on most missions, and when I did it generally due to either my mistakes or extreme bad luck - the worst case I had a couple die on one mission to a fluke Psyon moving into line of sight, and with two shots, killing twice in the same turn. The Alien Base was easy to do when I took it on, with Gauss Weapons, Fusion Grenades and Exosuits. I lost one soldier, and that was due to a small error on my part, and a Reaper popping through a door I hadn't noticed. Overall the difficult is partly because of the effectiveness of Shields (see below) and the Alien AI. I think the accuracy/damage is about right, its just I can stop the Aliens getting shots off a bit too easily. When looking at the AI areas I'd think of is:

• the AI isn't good at using cover, it will often shoot, then wander forwards leaving itself in the open, rather than say using the remaining TUs to hide or get into cover.   
• the AI does not seem to effectively use the knowledge of what it had 'seen' in the player's turn. Ducking out of cover, shooting, hiding again is very effective. The AI seems to only behave based on what it can see during its own turn. If its been shot at, it should at least move to better cover and ideally try and find and kill the shooter. Sometimes the AI camps in a spot and doesn't move until its got LOS on an opponent.  
• The AI does not seem to share knowledge of what all Aliens can see. If one Alien can see a soldier another one ought to be able to throw a grenade at it, or manoeuvre into position to shoot (ideally outflanking). 

By and far the hardest part of most UFO downed mission is turn 1. I've had 4 or 5 aliens within sight of the dropship on multiple occasions, and because the team aren't deployed yet it can be tough to navigate. This is good! I like the idea of Aliens trying to ambush at the most vulnerable point. 

Shields - I think they are too effective. Guaranteed to soak ranged damage and provide cover for others (I often have a crouched shield in the open with Sniper / Heavy stood behind). Some people have referenced alternatives that were tried during the closed period. I'm not sure about the best options. Maybe reducing the HP or giving them a % chance to block shots (e.g. 90%) so they are less reliable. I'd even consider dropping the Shield entirely, and relying on high Reactions/TU soldiers to scout.  I got the upgrade, and quite frankly I don't think I needed to.

Mission Diversity - in the early game there is a good mix of missions, but one the cleaner missions are done it seems like there is one alien base, and a terror mission every 2 months. Everything else is a 'downed UFO' mission. This is a bit repetitive, and could do with mixing up some more. 

Money - is very tight, which is good so I had to really make tough choices about what to spend money on.  This did have quite a big impact on research, since a lot of research opens up new engineering projects which I never prioritised for funding. The interrogation research is actually the best choice in many instances. I think the overall funding level is about right. Towards day 150 UFOs are generating a lot of income, and I was able to fund fusion grenades, exosuits etc. 

Pacing of Research- 3 basic labs, fully staffed, was more than enough to stay well on top of the research I cared about. Money was the big constraint for tech advancements, so slowing research down slightly may be useful. 

Vehicles - Mars - although tactically is good, its too expensive to build and replace. Unless the cost drops, in future I'll just skip it altogether. That means I can save a lot of money as I don't need to build it or undertake the engineering projects to upgrade it either. The only battle I used Sentry Guns in they'd picked up the Gauss upgrade and were great, ripping apart a Reaper, Servitor, Wraith invasion. 

Research - others have commented about the proximity of Accelerated & Laser Weapons. I actually ran into something similar with Advanced Lasers and Gauss - I think Gauss ended up being either the next research or the next but one. I think more spacing in when these are available would be good, and make the choice about skipping or not much tougher to make. That said I think Advanced Lasers, for terrain clearance, are very useful, so I doubt I'd skip it. At that point in progress I wasn't under much pressure anyway, so skipping or not would not have been a big call.  

Grenadier - on the first couple of missions is fine. After that I don't think I'd ever use the role again. Regular soldiers with grenades are more useful. This meant I had no 'rocket' option. Demolition grenades and lasers were good enough.  

Grenades seem to behave oddly inside the dropships and UFOs, sometimes ceilings don't seem to be taken into account with the 'hit chance' but are when the grenade is thrown. There are also some odd graphics with soldiers facing the wrong way when throwing grenades in a UFO. I think its been reported that stun grenades can affect soldiers on the level below too. 

I didn't use additional armour, Knives or C4 at all. Smoke is tactically useful so I'd often have one, Flashbangs are vital. Regular frag grenades are very handy with Wraiths (to remove cloaking) and tactically useful to soften up opponents.  

I didn't do any upgrades to any base buildings, or build any missile batteries for that matter. The only thing I upgraded were grenades (I skipped alenium, and went straight to fusion), Phantom armour and Shields (which I wouldn't do next time). Everything else seemed a luxury that could wait until after my interceptor coverage was complete (which depending on the number of UFO missions I'd have got to around day 210-240).

Except maybe in the first month I was never short of alloys or alenium. If these are meant to be driving hard choices they aren't right now. I very rarely sold them, and with hindsight probably could have done so to get a bit further into my interceptor coverage.

 

[Chris]

11 hours ago, doubleskulls said:

I've just finished 180 days on commander level, and thought I'd provide some feedback. There are probably spoilers if you haven't finished the EA yet. 

In general I think X2 is excellent, and I'm really looking forward to each of the milestones as it improves. The gameplay is often tense and missions are full of interesting tactical decisions. It really has captured the feel and gameplay of the originals. 

How I played

I was not trying to RP, but to do the best I could. So I was min/maxing where I thought it appropriate. 

My initial base I built extra living quarters, workshop, lab, medical & training initially. Went up to 3 labs in month 2, and got up to 26 soldiers in the initial base, adding a 2nd radar and generator as needed. My other bases were just 2 hangers, access lift, radar, apart from the 2nd base which also had an extra hangar, and eventually 3 workshops and 2 living quarters. I finished with 3 bases, 8 Phantoms, with my 4th base starting on day 181. Secondary bases were defended by Sentry Guns, which won a base defence mission with 10 units. 16 is cheaper to hire and lower cost than actual soldiers.

Research, I took Warden Armour second, skipped Magnetic Weapon research and went straight to Lasers.  After that largely focussed on cash and improvements to the air war - more bases/radar, more Phantom Interceptors. I retired both Angels as soon as I could replace them as their maintenance is the same as a Phantom. Up until the end of EA, a Phantom with a pair of Laser Lances, and once I had it the armour upgrade, were good enough for every UFO I faced.  

Tactical missions. I was not playing anything like perfectly or as patiently as say TorNis does. Mars died on the 2nd cleaner mission, and I never bothered getting another one. With 9 soldiers I'd generally be taking 2 shields, 2 heavies, 2 snipers, 2 assault and I was experimenting with grenadier (either with a HEVY or just grenades), but I think 3 shields would be better when without the Mars. With 12, it was 3 shields, 2 heavies, 3 snipers, 2 assault, 2 riflemen. I equipped Assaults and Riflemen with shields to leave in the dropship, so there were spares if needed, and every soldier was fully loaded with grenades and other equipment, dropping what they can't carry on turn 1.  

Most missions don't have a timer, so I can slowly scout with Shields, and then pick off aliens with Snipers.  Using the other soldiers to provide additional firing options, and/or reaction cover during the alien turn. Assaults were primarily for UFO breaches. I use the tactic of blocking up doors, so most UFOs are quite straightforward to take down, just putting everyone in front of the door, open it, kill/stun all aliens, block up the next door. 

Feedback

Difficulty - the first couple of months I think the difficultly level is spot on (and I don't think the cleaner missions needed to be made easier). However after getting lasers & warden armour I'd rarely lose someone on most missions, and when I did it generally due to either my mistakes or extreme bad luck - the worst case I had a couple die on one mission to a fluke Psyon moving into line of sight, and with two shots, killing twice in the same turn. The Alien Base was easy to do when I took it on, with Gauss Weapons, Fusion Grenades and Exosuits. I lost one soldier, and that was due to a small error on my part, and a Reaper popping through a door I hadn't noticed. Overall the difficult is partly because of the effectiveness of Shields (see below) and the Alien AI. I think the accuracy/damage is about right, its just I can stop the Aliens getting shots off a bit too easily. When looking at the AI areas I'd think of is:

• the AI isn't good at using cover, it will often shoot, then wander forwards leaving itself in the open, rather than say using the remaining TUs to hide or get into cover.   
• the AI does not seem to effectively use the knowledge of what it had 'seen' in the player's turn. Ducking out of cover, shooting, hiding again is very effective. The AI seems to only behave based on what it can see during its own turn. If its been shot at, it should at least move to better cover and ideally try and find and kill the shooter. Sometimes the AI camps in a spot and doesn't move until its got LOS on an opponent.  
• The AI does not seem to share knowledge of what all Aliens can see. If one Alien can see a soldier another one ought to be able to throw a grenade at it, or manoeuvre into position to shoot (ideally outflanking). 

By and far the hardest part of most UFO downed mission is turn 1. I've had 4 or 5 aliens within sight of the dropship on multiple occasions, and because the team aren't deployed yet it can be tough to navigate. This is good! I like the idea of Aliens trying to ambush at the most vulnerable point. 

Shields - I think they are too effective. Guaranteed to soak ranged damage and provide cover for others (I often have a crouched shield in the open with Sniper / Heavy stood behind). Some people have referenced alternatives that were tried during the closed period. I'm not sure about the best options. Maybe reducing the HP or giving them a % chance to block shots (e.g. 90%) so they are less reliable. I'd even consider dropping the Shield entirely, and relying on high Reactions/TU soldiers to scout.  I got the upgrade, and quite frankly I don't think I needed to.

Mission Diversity - in the early game there is a good mix of missions, but one the cleaner missions are done it seems like there is one alien base, and a terror mission every 2 months. Everything else is a 'downed UFO' mission. This is a bit repetitive, and could do with mixing up some more. 

Money - is very tight, which is good so I had to really make tough choices about what to spend money on.  This did have quite a big impact on research, since a lot of research opens up new engineering projects which I never prioritised for funding. The interrogation research is actually the best choice in many instances. I think the overall funding level is about right. Towards day 150 UFOs are generating a lot of income, and I was able to fund fusion grenades, exosuits etc. 

Pacing of Research- 3 basic labs, fully staffed, was more than enough to stay well on top of the research I cared about. Money was the big constraint for tech advancements, so slowing research down slightly may be useful. 

Vehicles - Mars - although tactically is good, its too expensive to build and replace. Unless the cost drops, in future I'll just skip it altogether. That means I can save a lot of money as I don't need to build it or undertake the engineering projects to upgrade it either. The only battle I used Sentry Guns in they'd picked up the Gauss upgrade and were great, ripping apart a Reaper, Servitor, Wraith invasion. 

Research - others have commented about the proximity of Accelerated & Laser Weapons. I actually ran into something similar with Advanced Lasers and Gauss - I think Gauss ended up being either the next research or the next but one. I think more spacing in when these are available would be good, and make the choice about skipping or not much tougher to make. That said I think Advanced Lasers, for terrain clearance, are very useful, so I doubt I'd skip it. At that point in progress I wasn't under much pressure anyway, so skipping or not would not have been a big call.  

Grenadier - on the first couple of missions is fine. After that I don't think I'd ever use the role again. Regular soldiers with grenades are more useful. This meant I had no 'rocket' option. Demolition grenades and lasers were good enough.  

Grenades seem to behave oddly inside the dropships and UFOs, sometimes ceilings don't seem to be taken into account with the 'hit chance' but are when the grenade is thrown. There are also some odd graphics with soldiers facing the wrong way when throwing grenades in a UFO. I think its been reported that stun grenades can affect soldiers on the level below too. 

I didn't use additional armour, Knives or C4 at all. Smoke is tactically useful so I'd often have one, Flashbangs are vital. Regular frag grenades are very handy with Wraiths (to remove cloaking) and tactically useful to soften up opponents.  

I didn't do any upgrades to any base buildings, or build any missile batteries for that matter. The only thing I upgraded were grenades (I skipped alenium, and went straight to fusion), Phantom armour and Shields (which I wouldn't do next time). Everything else seemed a luxury that could wait until after my interceptor coverage was complete (which depending on the number of UFO missions I'd have got to around day 210-240).

Except maybe in the first month I was never short of alloys or alenium. If these are meant to be driving hard choices they aren't right now. I very rarely sold them, and with hindsight probably could have done so to get a bit further into my interceptor coverage.

 

Thanks for the detailed feedback. I'm glad you like the game so far!

I'm guessing from reading this and your posts elsewhere that you're manually fighting every crash site you generate, right? Also, did I read elsewhere that you were aiming for 12 Phantoms or so in the midgame?

[doubleskulls]

8 hours ago, Chris said:

Thanks for the detailed feedback. I'm glad you like the game so far!

I'm guessing from reading this and your posts elsewhere that you're manually fighting every crash site you generate, right? Also, did I read elsewhere that you were aiming for 12 Phantoms or so in the midgame?

Correct, manually fighting every battle. Money is tight and fighting seems to yield much more than auto-collecting. Tactical battles are really what the game is about too, so I'd either use the 'collect cash' option if I was losing badly in tactical and needed to wait for better equipment, or late game when I don't need the cash so much.

For bases, I started out around Sudan/Chad, and got a 2nd radar and 3 phantoms there, 2nd base was in the Gobi desert, also with 2 radars and 3 phantoms. Latin America, in Bolivia, had 1 radar & 2 phantoms and I'd just started on a North American base, around Oklahoma. All bases would have had 3 phantoms, and the first base would go to the 3rd radar. Maybe a 2nd radar in NA. I think that would have given all the coverage I'd need. If I'd ever got there maybe a 5th base in Australia, but I doubt it would be worth it. An Access Lift on its own is $125k p/m, which is a big drag on the finances. 

 

[Conductiv]

I agree C4 is actually quite hard to use, its heavy at 15 weight units per charge and even though it does give a significant TU advantage with breech and clear tactics if you let the turn roll over...its just insanely heavy and hard to fit in. I'll see if I can employ them a bit more on the next run...but the main detriment is really that they take up 2,5 grenades worth of weight

knife I rarely use as well, but I don't think its bad. near guaranteed damage ..especially early game when it feels like your men are cross-eyed..is very valuable...I think it just gets out-done by the stun baton the moment it becomes available.

plates I did use once accuracy is a high level, but the magnitude of effect is nowhere near as noticeable then armor upgrades, there are very few instances where a armor insert actually saved a trooper.

I did employ a lot of missile batteries, but...its a massive money sink (in order to get significant defense you are looking at 600-800 grand ignoring upgrade techs) and unlike base defense missions, when a battery actually destroys an invading ship...something that is rare as the ships rarely attack a base, you get nothing.  for that amount of money you can build like 12-16 machinegun trollies to defend the base instead.

Angel weapons scale quite well into the late game, the plane itself though is made of paper and has pathetic endurance (feul range and speed wise) its also a pity that its alpha strike capability with missiles just lags behind the target durability. phantom is a brawler and very good at that, it also helps the phantom that the top air weapon at the moment is a brawling weapon compared the standoff lance that I feel works much better on the angel

[Raffik]

On 8/4/2023 at 1:12 PM, doubleskulls said:

the AI isn't good at....

Agree.
 

[Komandos]

On 8/4/2023 at 2:12 PM, doubleskulls said:

Mission Diversity - in the early game there is a good mix of missions, but one the cleaner missions are done it seems like there is one alien base, and a terror mission every 2 months. Everything else is a 'downed UFO' mission. This is a bit repetitive, and could do with mixing up some more. 

If the editor of missions and tasks appears, then with the help of the community (modifications) it will be possible to increase the variety of missions and tasks.

[Raffik]

8 minutes ago, Komandos said:

Mission Diversity - in the early game there is a good mix of missions, but one the cleaner missions are done it seems like there is one alien base, and a terror mission every 2 months. Everything else is a 'downed UFO' mission. This is a bit repetitive, and could do with mixing up some more.

More tactical missions and a new biome will be implemented in the future, so I believe (hope) it will help the mission diversity and prevent the repetitiveness of the UFO missions a bit

[Raffik]

On 8/5/2023 at 12:28 PM, Conductiv said:

I agree C4 is actually quite hard to use, its heavy at 15 weight units per charge and even though it does give a significant TU advantage with breech and clear tactics if you let the turn roll over...its just insanely heavy and hard to fit in. I'll see if I can employ them a bit more on the next run...but the main detriment is really that they take up 2,5 grenades worth of weight

True!

I was testing c4 in my previous game run for breeching and assault and also for defensive missions - it worked, but the main flaw is, that you need to know, that an enemy either is in the building or that an enemy will be in its destructuon radius when you blow it up. 

Motion scanner would make its usage way more tactically effective. Often the enemy just got away from the house and the charge could not be picked up anymore once it was planred, so it was wasted. But if the poor creature was there, the breech worked perfectly.

Ocasionally it proved to be effective in base defense, when planted by the doors - once a single charge vaporized 3 sectons at once, that was satisfying...

With the weight true as well... you need to choose whether the heavy charge or more grenades, which are tactically more useful, but that is the bargain I guess..