100+ Hours, Air Combat is my greatest issue

[MartinSGill]

I'm enjoying it even at this stage of development. I also agree with quite a few points made in many other threads, so I'm going to focus on the area that I, personally, feel is part I enjoy least.

My biggest issue has been around difficulty/pacing with air-combat. I never liked the air-combat in X1. I'm just happy pressing auto-resolve and things should be shot down most of the time, if I've kept up my research and upgrades. I play these types of games for the tactical turn comabt.. not real-time panic-inducing twitch-combat. And I love the tactical combat even at this stage.

I'm sure there are those that love the air-combat element. If people want the extra air-combat challenge, that's great. I'd like the option of skipping it. I thought this would be possible with the auto-resolve, but I'm now at the stage where I don't even send out intercepts anymore, because all that happens is my planes die.

I'm playing on the lowest difficulty, have the best equiment I can (alerium missile/torps, laser gun, armour plating, first-gen self-built combat aircraft, name escapes me right now) and I always send planes in pairs.

I can take out destroyers, but not if they have escorts and not anything bigger than that.

I've now started sending planes in flights of three, and am thinking upgrading to flights of 4, as even with 3 I still lose a plane every time.

Either I'm doing something wrong or the difficultly has suddenly spiralled out of sight. I have no idea what I could be doing to improve matters and the game isn't providing any clues.

[Alienkiller]

MartinSGill, yeah the Aircombat is atm not that we all wanna have. So we tested out several Alternatives for it. Sadly no one of the Alternatives in the Beta-Years weren´t an Option for the existing concept. 

The only Alternative-Concept would be to use that of UFO ET directly on the World Map, but that would be then 08/15 Copy & Paste. If you have an better Concept for the Airfight, without destroying the choisable single, double or squad-Fights, then we have an fully Ear (Main-Beta-Testers, Devs and Publisher).

[Paulo Brito]

Small point - you can only send a max of 3 planes at a target.

[Alienkiller]

Yeah Paulo Brito, that what I mean. The Squad is maximum 3 Planes, but you have the Oportunity to send 1, 2 or all 3 you can select.

[doubleskulls]

Have you upgraded to Phantoms? On auto-resolve, 3 with laser lances, seem to take out most things without a lot of damage, and will win without loss even with a pair of escort fighters. 

[MartinSGill]

1 hour ago, Alienkiller said:

The only Alternative-Concept would be to use that of UFO ET directly on the World Map, but that would be then 08/15 Copy & Paste. If you have an better Concept for the Airfight, without destroying the choisable single, double or squad-Fights, then we have an fully Ear (Main-Beta-Testers, Devs and Publisher)

Don't know what you mean with UFO ET. 

I was happy with fighting used for UFO: Enemy Unknown (did you mean that game?), or XCOM: UFO Defense, whichever title you prefer. It basically came down to either better range, or more fire-power and you could quickly tell from each engagement where you were missing.

Someone else mentioned turn-based air combat. I like that idea, but not sure how viable that is, given it would essentially mean a new game.

 

9 minutes ago, doubleskulls said:

Have you upgraded to Phantoms?

I'm upgrading my 3rd aircraft to a phantom atm. I was sending them out with torp/missile and laser loadout. Guess I'll need to try dual lasers. Seems a bit off to me though. I mean, I have lighter, worse armed aircraft. Seems like the only hope I have is to pummel the UFOs from range, not get in close to get swatted.

But if it works.. i'll give it a go.

[doubleskulls]

I'm definitely not an expert on the best loadouts, but Phatoms only have 2 slots, and I think dual lasers is better than missile/laser or cannon/laser. I did experiment with laser/laser and cannon/cannon, but it just seems to give worse outcomes in auto resolve than just having lasers. 

[Alienkiller]

No I mean the direct counterpart to Xenonauts / Xenonauts 2 from Chaos Concept, which bases too on the origianal X-Com-Series, but integrate some cool Things from TV-Series of that Gerne too and come direct in 3D.

It should be well known to the Gamers-World about the Fact that 2006 that small Company (Chaos Concpet) hit the Game-Landscape from the Secret like a Bomb, after the UFO-After-Series with the real-Time-Fights come to a Flop and the new XCOM-Series were still in the Game-Sausage-Pot.    

The UFO ET-Row is to Xenonauts 2 the only direct comperative value. Here & There it have big differences (f. e. Storyline), but in the common Features they are similar. I play both Game-Rows so an direct comparison can be done.

The Airfight f. e. is in the UFO ET-Row directly on the Geoscape (without an extra Window or Screen like in Xenonauts 2), which means that Part is directly linked to the Geoscape. Personaly I hoped there too, that an other Fight-System like in the old X-Com you mention would be integrated, but that didn´t happen. In Xenonauts 2 you have that extra Screen for the Airfight, which I like. If you have Steam I suggest you look at the Shopsite for UFO ET: Platinum (the big UFO 1 ET-Refit) and whatch the Vid, where the Airfight get shown too.

Both Concepts have Strengh and Weaknesses, so we testet out some new Ideas of other Airfight-Concepts. Including Turn-Based-Variants in the Beta-Test-Years until we had to made an Decission. Sadly none of the new Airfight-Concepts could convince the Crowfounders / Beta-Testers / Devs and asked Community. Esp. the turn based Variants all get unaniumous rejected about the Reasons they play like an boring Chess-Game. And an similar System like used and involed in new XCOM EU / EW we haven´t discussed about very good reasons.

The remaining 2 Concepts were to use and rework the old X1 Airfight-System or make an complete Geoscape-Fighting-System like the UFO ET-Row is using. The Decission were to use an working Airfight-System with many Reworks to get the Game playable and moving forward with the other big jobsite-Parts. Without that Out-Testing of new Airforce-Battles we could be much farer in other Parts (Xenopedia / Geoscape / Bases / other Airforce-Parts etc. in Reworks, Refits, Upgrades and new Features / Contents).

You see, we had such an Idea already and tested it out. But it´s not integrateable without destroying Xenonauts 2 or in not worst Case make Xenonauts 2 boring in that Part linked Parts to the Airfight.

 

What the Aircraft-Upgrades belongs, they are an must have. If you use Laser-Lances, so be warned. They are good weapons, but the fire-rate is low. It´s similar to the UFOs-Fire-Rate. The Advantage are Long-Range, very good Hit and Durability as well as enough Ammo to fight several Enemys.

 

[MartinSGill]

Three aircraft (Phantoms) with laser seems to be working for me now. 

I somehow missed (or don't remember) the UFO - Extraterrstrials game. I do remeber the After-Earth etc. games. I actually rather enjoyed the third of those, not the first two so much. 

Maybe I'll see if I can find them. Although, i need to finish JA3 first :).

[ShadowAdmiral]

On 7/25/2023 at 2:46 PM, doubleskulls said:

Have you upgraded to Phantoms? On auto-resolve, 3 with laser lances, seem to take out most things without a lot of damage, and will win without loss even with a pair of escort fighters. 

Not a squadron of alien interceptors. 

[Mütze]

I really, like the Air Combat feature but I have a little Problem with the own Air Fighting Units. The X55-Phantoms have more Speed, can change the direction faster, have more Heal and Amor as the X25-Angle. But they also only have 2 Weapons Slots, instead of the by the X25. Also the Phantoms cant use Rockets, only guns and torpedos.

But the biggest issue in my mind is, that all new Weapons have very small range. Laser is here the best options, but they are shooting very slowly, also in issue vs Interceptors. The best weapon, the Gauss Gun have such a small range, that you will always getting damage. If you need to shut down 2 or 3 UFOs at the same time, it will be very hard to do so because each fight will bring the Fighters to their limits. 

So the best will be a new weapon with a longer range and also good Damage to the enemys. the Rockets and Torpedos also no good option because only 1 shot will not be very usefull. At the moment I have researched and build up all Techs and Im using 2 full Squads of 3 X55-Phantoms but also have trouble to take down UFOs with Interceptors as Escord or 3 Interceptors insteed.

There we will need more Option and better weapons to handle a couple of Air Fights close to the same time or it will be very frustrated if you cant do nothing vs 3 Interceptors flying all over the map and creating Terror und you cant do anything because you are not able to shot them down.

So my questions, will be new Weapons available or will be the range of some of the current weapons be fixed to be more effective ??