AP grenades are shrapnel grenades

[Chthon]

As the title says, AP or anti-personnel grenades are shrapnel grenades, not high explosive grenades. They are designed to break apart into small pieces and pierce people in a large area around them. They are not made to deal massive damage to terrain, vehicles, or equipment. Having them blow up walls and cover is not one of their uses.

In short, everything the new X-COM teaches players is wrong about them.

If you want high explosive force to destroy equipment or a wall, you need C4, an explosive charge, or a rocket. An AP grenade will not cut it.

[Chris]

14 hours ago, Chthon said:

As the title says, AP or anti-personnel grenades are shrapnel grenades, not high explosive grenades. They are designed to break apart into small pieces and pierce people in a large area around them. They are not made to deal massive damage to terrain, vehicles, or equipment. Having them blow up walls and cover is not one of their uses.

In short, everything the new X-COM teaches players is wrong about them.

If you want high explosive force to destroy equipment or a wall, you need C4, an explosive charge, or a rocket. An AP grenade will not cut it.

What’s this in reference to? There are frag grenades and demolition charges available for soldiers that are specialised for each of those roles.

(Plus the C4 that will eventually be rolled into the demo charge in terms of functionality.)

[Chthon]

I witnessed a streamer throw an AP grenade, an ordinary one, into a UFO, and it demolished walls and equipment inside the UFO completely. AP grenades do not do that. Even a 1/4 inch thin layer of steel will block any damage they deal at a range of over 2 feet. I doubt they can destroy alien alloy at any range. The real damage they deal is the shrapnel they throw when they shatter.

[Chris]

3 hours ago, Chthon said:

I witnessed a streamer throw an AP grenade, an ordinary one, into a UFO, and it demolished walls and equipment inside the UFO completely. AP grenades do not do that. Even a 1/4 inch thin layer of steel will block any damage they deal at a range of over 2 feet. I doubt they can destroy alien alloy at any range. The real damage they deal is the shrapnel they throw when they shatter.

OK - I suspect either you were mistaken and they threw a demo charge rather than a frag grenade, or the destroyed items had already been damaged in some way beforehand. Or they might have run the upgrade project and got Alenium Grenades instead of standard frags.

Looking at the numbers a single basic frag grenade just doesn't do enough terrain damage to destroy walls or UFO props in one hit (however a demo charge or an Alenium Grenade will).

[Chthon]

Is it possible that repeated smoke grenades followed by an AP grenade could cause that kind of damage? Alienium grenades do have a different apearance.

[Chris]

6 hours ago, Chthon said:

Is it possible that repeated smoke grenades followed by an AP grenade could cause that kind of damage? Alienium grenades do have a different apearance.

No, smoke grenades shouldn't cause damage. Do you have the stream / video to hand so I can look at it?

[Chthon]

It was TorNis. It happened on his Sunday stream. I'll have to go pull up the VoD to get a clip of it happening when I have time. You have me second guessing my memory now.

[DaviddesJ]

If you're generally fighting armored enemies then you would want grenades that do more than *just* throw out shrapnel. I think it's not surprising that the standard grenades in this game have somewhat more explosive power than todays conventional AP grenades. That's what I would want against armored alien soldiers.

Edited July 14, 2023 by DaviddesJ

[Chthon]

9 hours ago, DaviddesJ said:

If you're generally fighting armored enemies then you would want grenades that do more than *just* throw out shrapnel. I think it's not surprising that the standard grenades in this game have somewhat more explosive power than todays conventional AP grenades. That's what I would want against armored alien soldiers.

Soldier armor is generally not thick enough to stop shrapnel, nor is it a complete covering, otherwise it would prevent motion and encumbers the soldier. Instead it covers key areas like vital organs from the front and back, head from above and the sides, the neck with softer armor, and that's about it.

Sci fi armor from this game might go a little further, but still, a soldier needs to be able to move. A full suit of armor prevents movement and violates this principle of modern warfare unless the armor can move for the soldier.

There are still plenty of places that shrapnel can strike a soldier to incapacitate them. One example is the femoral artery in the legs, or anywhere in the legs. Striking the legs can cripple a soldier, and a blow to the femoral artery can require a tourniquet which fully incapacitates a soldier until they are medevacked and undergo surgery to repair the artery. Striking the arms can also reduce their capacity as well, as they tend to be less protected. The sides also tend to have less armor since the arms tend to fall to the sides, and soldiers tend to face threats anyways placing their front or helmet forward.

As you can see, shrapnel from AP grenades is very effective against personnel, even ones in more advanced armor, as they still need to be able to fight in said armor. Unless this game wants to go the route of the soldiers get power armor, then shrapnel will continue being effective.

Edit: Oh, and that's not even accounting for the requirement for overheating and cooling of the soldier. Yes, this is something that the military cares about, as heat injuries taking out a soldier is something they try to minimize as well. A soldier who has a full body covering with no surface area for sweat cannot regulate their own heat very well in hotter climates.

Edited July 14, 2023 by Chthon