TacticalDragon Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Hello Everyone, I had been testing for a while some AI modifications to recreate better environment of alien defense and dynamic during GC. Playing stable, experimental and modded i figgured out that aliens has a problem. Aliens have alzheimer... The build great fancy sophisticated UFOs with transporters and heavy metal doors... but they forget how to use it... Why aliens can go around and open doors even if your in the other side? Really... I hate doors in this game, I just open the door, shot, make my moves, close the door and bang!... end turn.... Aliens even move, the stare at the door like idiots scared to death... IMHO the doors can have 3 things that will make it good element in combat: - Aliens can open it but Humans don't, they use it for ultimate defense. - If you open the door, you can't close it again. - Optional: The doors can't be opened without the use of.... explosives. Yes, humans need to breach aliens UFOS and compartments using old tricks... the unused C4... or grenades... or even shooting (Wasting lot of ammo of course). I hope for better security technology for aliens... they have families awaiting in his planets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpelectric Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 This has been brought up a number of times, including the current thread "door spamming" under "general xenonauts discussion" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TacticalDragon Posted April 3, 2014 Author Share Posted April 3, 2014 Maybe, but the propousal of use the doors as defensive strcture for alien UFOs? So there is no more to say about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabill Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Yes, all those propositions have come up before. The problem with making doors unopenable except by destroying them is that it can create a situation whereby the player can't complete the mission because they lack the firepower to do so. Furthermore, there's not really any gameplay advantage to this since the net result is the same (the door is open!). Being able to open a door but then not close it again is fine, but will create complexities if the AI ever learns to come out of the UFO (since they won't be able to shut it again! Although I'm not sure if the AI can close doors, anyway). Ultimately, there's a really easy way to avoid exploiting the way doors work in the game, and that's to simply not do it. From the perspective of there being only two months left before the game releases, leaving it to player discretion as to whether this feature is 'abused' seems a much less costly solution than adding in or changing code. (Not that I'd be unhappy if the AI was encouraged to sally out of the UFO occassionally. But I think that has importance beyond simply thwarting 'door spamming'). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smoitessier Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 If the aliens could just open the door from their side that would solve it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TacticalDragon Posted April 3, 2014 Author Share Posted April 3, 2014 Yes, all those propositions have come up before.The problem with making doors unopenable except by destroying them is that it can create a situation whereby the player can't complete the mission because they lack the firepower to do so. Furthermore, there's not really any gameplay advantage to this since the net result is the same (the door is open!). Being able to open a door but then not close it again is fine, but will create complexities if the AI ever learns to come out of the UFO (since they won't be able to shut it again! Although I'm not sure if the AI can close doors, anyway). Ultimately, there's a really easy way to avoid exploiting the way doors work in the game, and that's to simply not do it. From the perspective of there being only two months left before the game releases, leaving it to player discretion as to whether this feature is 'abused' seems a much less costly solution than adding in or changing code. (Not that I'd be unhappy if the AI was encouraged to sally out of the UFO occassionally. But I think that has importance beyond simply thwarting 'door spamming'). What? Really? My god Kabill that is assuming that the Door have HUGE amount of resistance... Enough firepower? Really? The players will learn to use Alien weapons to throw down a Door or ... just one C4 explosive to open UFO main door. In other hand, Doors need to be alien main defensive structure... what about some aliens crouching and firing thought the door as a cover? All of this things bring flavor and tactic to the game... Doors as it comes in the actual game only represent a handicap for aliens, instead of real defense, and that's sucks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabill Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 What? Really? My god Kabill that is assuming that the Door have HUGE amount of resistance... Enough firepower? Really? The players will learn to use Alien weapons to throw down a Door or ... just one C4 explosive to open UFO main door. It's worth bearing in mind that most missions would require more than one door to be destroyed. Even at one block of C4 per door, how many would you need to get through an alien base? And if you miscalculate, or lose some of your explosives as a result of overdamage, or whatever, you could end up in a situation where you can't finish the mission. Scavenging alien weapons to blast open a door is, as you say, a possible way around this problem. Nevertheless, I'm not massively convinced that having run round the map scavenging alien weapons just for the purpose of exploding doors is a fun or enjoyable use of my time. Especially when the end result is almost exactly the same as just opening the door. In other hand, Doors need to be alien main defensive structure... what about some aliens crouching and firing thought the door as a cover? Being able to shoot out of doors using gunports/whatever is actually quite interesting. However, given how cover works in Xenonauts, it would have to work both ways, allowing soldiers adjacent to the door outside to shoot at aliens inside without penalty. It wouldn't necessarily be advantageous, therefore, and might possibly end up more of a problem for the aliens than what is currently the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ventuswings Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Regarding point two, that's why I love base defense missions because opening the door there is permanent choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TacticalDragon Posted April 3, 2014 Author Share Posted April 3, 2014 Being able to shoot out of doors using gunports/whatever is actually quite interesting. However, given how cover works in Xenonauts, it would have to work both ways, allowing soldiers adjacent to the door outside to shoot at aliens inside without penalty. It wouldn't necessarily be advantageous, therefore, and might possibly end up more of a problem for the aliens than what is currently the case. Yes but obviusly aliens will wait for LOS just in the gun ports. You can reach and use the gunport but first you need to kill the guardians. If you assume that C4 or Plasma explosive has the important target to open doors the player will know that one explosive open 1 door. Large UFOs has multiple doors a player that its first time exploring large ufos will need to retreat if they found locked ufo.... Thing that is completly possible. If banks can have heavy security doors why aliens can't? Maybe this is one of the possibility to bring uses for C4 explosives and gives sense of exploration. Is not a bad idea isn't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TacticalDragon Posted April 3, 2014 Author Share Posted April 3, 2014 Regarding point two, that's why I love base defense missions because opening the door there is permanent choice. Yes totally agreed. I love it too... but aliens dont attack too much the bases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabill Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Yes but obviusly aliens will wait for LOS just in the gun ports. You can reach and use the gunport but first you need to kill the guardians. No, you need to be able to reach the gun ports. Because then you can kill the aliens on the other side easily (since the door would no longer be giving them cover). Bear in mind as well that cover doesn't stop explosives/suppression, so it would be fairly easy to disable the aliens on the other side first. If you assume that C4 or Plasma explosive has the important target to open doors the player will know that one explosive open 1 door. Large UFOs has multiple doors a player that its first time exploring large ufos will need to retreat if they found locked ufo.... Thing that is completly possible. I totally get why that might appeal, but I also totally get why it might turn people off. (I'm fairly certain that I made/supported this same suggestion a while back, but since have been persuaded that overall it wouldn't be good for the game. Not in general, anyway. If it could be done as a mod, though, I can see people liking it.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skybirduk Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 One reason the aliens may leave the doors unlocked is because their enemies may end up using a shaped charge to make a small hole. Next, a pump can either be used to pump the atmosphere out, or a lot more oxygen in. An oxygen fire could be used to clear the room out if the aliens hadn't already succumbed to the alteration of their air. "You can just stay in there, while we kill you one way or another." At least by allowing the doors to be opened, there's a chance of killing humans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpelectric Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Maybe, but the propousal of use the doors as defensive strcture for alien UFOs? So there is no more to say about it? I was just suggesting you check out that thread, if you hadn't already, because there was a fairly interesting discussion about doors already going on there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TacticalDragon Posted April 4, 2014 Author Share Posted April 4, 2014 I was just suggesting you check out that thread, if you hadn't already, because there was a fairly interesting discussion about doors already going on there I'll check it maybe your right ^^ Thx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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