Kaiphus_Kain
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Posts posted by Kaiphus_Kain
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Feels like a very nice idea and good potential addition to the game
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On 9/3/2019 at 12:26 AM, Ruggerman said:
It is September now, not August!! and no up-date!!
Bit early in the month to complain about no update with that many exclamation marks.
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^ What he said, adding anything to the tactical combat side like this would just make it pointless to even deploy troops for me.
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Just now, Clythoris said:
Are you dead set on the V-280 Valor? I mean, it's not that big of a deal, it just feels a bit too futuristic. Plus Chinooks are the most awesome helicopter ever made.
Chris means the current model is a V-280 Valor and that is being replaced
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1 hour ago, Max_Caine said:
If the issue with the current dropship is the LZ is hot, then wouldn't the solution be to adjust the maps so the LZ isn't hot? Or perhaps a hot LZ but with adjustments to the start tile so there's initial protection (such as smoke) during the drop?
Realistically if you were going into that hot an LZ wouldn't you pop smoke from the transport before getting out anyway?
Add Smoke launchers to the transports that auto deploy on landing
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8 hours ago, Decius said:
The PG-7VR projectile for the RPG-7 was introduced late in the cold war, and if it doesn't penetrate UFO hull than antiaircraft weapons have no chance of doing so. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PG-7VR
750mm armour penetration is damn impressive
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2 minutes ago, Alienkiller said:
Kaiphus_Kain UFO Cores were normal Research Projects in X1 and in the not timed-limited Beta-Version for X2 from 2.x or 3.x since 6.0. After that UFO-Researches and Autopsies get automated in X2-Beta. Since the Betas comes out the Backers can test the Game.
So I like the Autopsy-Research and UFO-Research manualy back again. But I think it was automated for other Tests and will be manually again in Early-Acces.
Ok, think there has been a miscommunication then because that isn't what I have been talking about
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57 minutes ago, stewpidbear said:
Actually one of the first first weapons in the Xenonaut armoury should be able to blast a hole if I’m not mistaken. The “missile” launcher which looks remarkably like an RPG7 would be an anti tank weapon in the setting of the Cold War period. Perhaps not for the bigger ships but certainly for the smaller ones.
Yeah, would expect that to blast a nice chunk out of the smaller stuff but the bigger UFO's are unlikely to have scout like armour, bit like a Humvee vs a Main battle tank, RPG is going to blow the crap out of one and annoy the hell out of the other
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4 minutes ago, Alienkiller said:
Yes Kaiphus_Kain you have to research the UFO Typs. That was a Research before Beta-Version 6. Resarching an UFO makes the Game much more interessting again. And the Resarch should be linked with the UFO-Size.
I'm really not sure what you are on about here or why you are pointing out things that are obvious and have nothing to do with the thread? Researching the UFO's was never in doubt or going to be taken away, its a critical thing in X1 and X2.
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1 minute ago, Alienkiller said:
The only thing of Human Weapons are the Sniper-Rifle and the LMG. They uses to much TU % for only 1 Shot. 2 Shots were better.
Like I said too the Alien Weapons ignore Cover and Chrunching of the Soldier. Esp. the Plasma-Weapons. That have to be fixed asap.
That Plasma is stronger then Magnetic Projectile is fully OK. That´s the same as in the new XCOM-Series or the old X-Com Series. All Weapons have limitations. Projectile Weapons are almost weaker than Engergy Weapons, equal of Aliens or Humans.
TU Costs of Grenades are good, why should we have more? You have to move / crunch after the Throwing too so it´s absolutly ok.
That the Aliens have different Accuracy makes the Game much more interesting then the Predecessor. You need other Playstiles for every Alien-Race and it will be very interesting in the Final stage where you have to beat the End-Brain or whatever.
Suppression could be a bit higher, esp. for the Aliens.
From a how weapons work perspective a Sniper Rifle does require a lot of time to take a shot, its not like a pistol where it is point and shoot, you have to take into account wind speed and direction, you are looking for a pin point kill shot trying to find the chink in armour or the place where there is a gap between plates etc when using this type of gun so one shot is very likely.
Heavy weapons due to the nature of them would be similar but more because they are support weapons, not designed to be accurate per say (I know you could make an accurate shot with one if not going full auto or burst etc but generally that is not how they are used at all) but enable suppressing fire to stop others shooting the rest of your team by forcing them into cover.
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1 hour ago, Decius said:
How is that meaningfully different from turning the loot into materials as soon as it is researched, and then using the materials to make useful things?
Its more an immersion thing, just collecting a UFO wouldn't give you anything but a UFO and researching it wont automatically make reverse engineering it instantaneous, plus as Max pointed out you could have a method where this just gives you a bit more or as a way of getting some special item once for each type of UFO etc, lots of options that could add extras to a playthrough
10 minutes ago, Alienkiller said:I don´t have any Problems to recover things from downed UFO´s, landed UFO´s. Same with Aliens and Alien-Equipment since the fully playable Beta-Versions.
Not sure why you have even said this, not said there is any problem here
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9 minutes ago, Max_Caine said:
@stewpidbear Depends upon the budget for art assets, I'd say.
I can recover items from downed fighters as a Strategic Op. To minimise UI management, could the same be done for ordinary UFOs? You still get the option for getting a fixed amount immediately, or you can assign agents to oversee the cutting up of the UFO, and get a bonus to the artifacts rcovered, or possibly unique artifacts as a reward. Narratively, it could be described as either letting the funding bloc the ufo crashed in do most of the grunt work in removing the ufo, and paying a tithe in the form of alien artifacts tto the funding bloc, or assigning your own teams supervised by an agent - each agent assigned represents a Xenonauts team. I mean, is there any artwork for engineers/scientists that could be used so you can send engineers and/or scientists off to recover a UFO? That wold give people the option for complexity without having it forced upon them, similar to being able to airstrike a downed UFO instead of having to GC every ufo you come across.
Sounds like a great idea
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1 hour ago, Chris said:
I guess my concern about that sorta thing (and I have been experimenting with similar ideas over the past few months) is just the large amount of extra UI management it requires.
Presumably stuff like butchering corpses for materials for armour is done through a Workshop project? Is there a separate workshop project for each corpse type that produces a specific material, or is there a more elegant solution? The problem I discovered is that a complex system ends up with having dozens and dozens of workshop projects that are required to handle each possible action where the player transforms one item into another one ... and they kinda drown out the important stuff.
That's cool for players who like to have that level of detail and customisation, but not everyone wants quite that level of complexity.
Yeah it equals lots of engineering projects, each type of alien and rank produces differing amounts of materials, each gun similar, alien ballistic weapons would give ballistic cores with pistol giving 1 say and a mini-gun 3 or 4, will agree it would likely be annoying for many if it went very high level but could be interesting as just the basics kind of thing with just getting Alloys and fuels from ships by taking them to bits, modding could then add the rest for crazy folks like me
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17 hours ago, Alienkiller said:
I´m the only one which give a decent Solution for the Base Concept Problem to the Devs, because I know all of the Base Concepts from that Games:
- the outdated old Base Concept: (old X-Com-Series and Xenonauts 1) = bad system, that´s why it is canceled for X2
- the new Base Concept: (new XCom Series, Phoenix Point, Beta-Version for Xenonauts 2) = good system, but not practicable enough for Xenonauts 2 about compatibility errors and such with the other Things in X2
- Middleway: (get in in UFO Extraterestials [2006] and UFO2Extraterestials [sadly never come]) = best way for Xenonauts 2 and other Remakes, because it will get 2D / 3D old Base Concept with Compromises
@ Coffee Potato: Thanks for the Support. I see that you have played UFO Extratrestials too and know what I´m talking about.
@ Chris and other Devs: That´s my know-how about the Base Concepts for such Games. Chaos Games made the Compromise Base-System 15 Years ago for UFO ET. And there is nothing more you can use as the 3 concepts told above.
Like we have seen in X1 the old Base Stile (no Main Base, all Bases are the Same) won´t work. And in the Beta from X2 the new Base Stile (like in XCom EU / EW and XCom2 / XCom2 WotC) has to many compatibily Problems to fix or rework. So you decided to go back to the Main-Base Stile (Atlas Base) with secondary Bases in 3D Top-Looking. That´s fully OK if the other compatibilitys are functuning then without Problems.
My Advise is to use that Middleway-Base-Build. It´s perfect for the Base Concept-Rework for X2 as well as the Game itself, like UFO Extraterestials show it. And I would be happy to see it again in Xenonauts 2.
But do me a favour and let the Secondary Base-Build limited to get the Game more exciting like it is now. Max. 4 Secondary Bases on strategic Points which the Player can choose. Like in UFO Extraterestials the buildable Structures are limited for the Fighter Bases:
- Radars / later Scanners [like now, but combined with the Main Base-Central, which needs Technicans too]
- Living Areas: max. 2 small or 1 big living-Area for Technicans and Pilots [something special for that Bases, which wasn´t included in UFO ET]
- Storages: max. 4 small or 2 Big Storages for the Fighter Parts and Weapons [like in good old X-Com and in the Main-Base (ATLAS-Base) with slavaged / produced Things; not included in UFO ET, which was very very sad]
- 1 Sick Bay (if the Pilots or Technicans get hurt on her Work) [something special for that Bases, which wasn´t included in UFO ET]
- Base Defences (belongs how much Hangar Capacity the Player uses, so he / she can choose either for Defenses or Hangar Capacity)
- Hangar Capacitys [like in X2 now = 1 Hangar = 1 Fighter]
- as well as 1 seperate and closed Hangar only for the Material-Transport (for Upgrade-Parts / changable fighter Parts for repairs / new Weapons or recruted Technicans as well as Docs) [something special for that Bases, which wasn´t included in UFO ET]
That makes the Main Base to something special and the Secondary Bases get some more Features then they have in UFO ET. That´s a Base Concept which is the best on the Market in combination to the old Base-Concept-Form. And it´s like I said perfect for the Gamestyle for X2.
@ all others: I´m not going against the Devs. I bring in facts what has to be done that the Game won´t be scrappy like the first X1. The Devs themselfs said that the old base Concept and System as well as the less Geoscape Options in the first Game are scrap. They couldn´t fix it, so they decided to make X2 with better Story, a Main-Base which is the Point of Gameplay etc. That´s why the Backers invested in Xenonauts 2 and test the Beta-Versions.
If I were conniving that interchange would´t be done. I´m very friendly and give Suggestions for a Solution instead. And we have only 3 Ways to solve the Base-Concept-Problem. 1 of them isn´t acceptable, so I give the Devs an Solution. Everything I hear from you aren´t solutions, only disagrees and abuses.
If we get the same Game (X1) only in new Graphics the Money isn´t worth Kickstarter get from the Backers. We all know that the Promises on Kickstarter and on Steam / GoG are hard to get. In that Case all Games need Compromises. I said too that if we don´t get the Atlas-Base from the Beta (and Pictures from Kickstarter, Steam etc.) in the Final Game I´m happy too with a compromise. But not the old Base System from X1. That´s absolutely indiscutable!!!
That you only see only Black or White belongs in the Reason that you haven´t played UFO Extraterestials. Play it and build some Secondary Bases. You will get it for some Bucks in Steam. Then you see what I mean with the cool 1 Main-Base Concept and cool Secondary Second-Base Concept. That´s why I gave the Devs the Advise to use this. And it´s perfect for the Base Concept-Rework for X2 as well as the Game itself.
Incorrect, you are the only one being highly vocal about it and in the minority here, many of the rest of us have just as much if not more experience with these types of games so you are not special here and your ideas are not the only way to make this game work, there are not only 3 ways to solve anything.
I do love the comment at the bottom, I have played all the games in the UFO series(originals and remakes and everything in-between), I know exactly what you are referring to, I do not agree that your idea is the only way to solve the base issue and simply have faith in Chris and the Team doing what is best, just because you think it is doesn't make it so, got to disagree with you on the same game comment too I loved X1 and even if this was just a remake into 3D id still happily back it.
I didn't back X2 in any way shape or form based on how the base system worked, I backed it because I loved X1 and have faith Chris and the team will deliver a game i'm happy to play several hundred hrs of like X1 and all the other games like it that I've bought over the years (including all the ones you have so far mentioned as us obviously not playing), it isn't just X1 dumped into 3D though so it's silly bringing it up.
Bottom line is your opinion is just that, yours, there are a whole lot more people who backed this that are happy with X2's progress than not right now based on the poll, like you this is my opinion and it means jack all to anyone else, the difference is I am not insisting I am right and everyone else is wrong or making assumptions based on no data.
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20 hours ago, Alienkiller said:
Internal Defenses or Rocket-, MG-, Laser or such outside are fully ok. But not a second and third Squad like in X1 in second and third Base like in the orignal X-Com-Series. In the original X-Com Series it was OK, becuase the Devs hand´t any Choise about the technical Issues in Development. That´s why the old Base concept had to be brought in.
In X1 this System were outdated, but tested again. Chris and the others Devs themselfs said that this Base System "was a big Failure" for the Game in our new time. That Base System destroyed the Gamestory and Game fully, so a new Concept have to be done in Xenonauts 2.
To get out of the Dillema from the old Game (you had 3 fully Bases with everything) and got only the same playstile left [every 5 Minutes shoot down Ufos and recover them to the end of Xenonauts 1] the Devs wanna bring a new Base Concept, which get a new Storyline too. That all is promised in Kickstarter. And we all know that is not easy to Manage.
No one wanna have a big renege on that Promise. And the old Base Concept is a NO GO. Some of you wanna say: "Come on that´s not so fatal or something else." Normaly I wanna say that too, but that´s not a normal case.
1. This Project is financed from Backers and on Kickstarter (like X1). So the Project is ruled to the final End like I have read in the KS-Rules.
2. The Budget is limited. Such a change from an existing Base system to a new one will minimise the Founds for other Parts of the Game.
3. We have our first big renege on that Promise if the old Base concept comes back. That don´t cast a positive light on the Company.
We all know that is a Dillema, esp. for the Devs in the Final Phase to bring the Game to Early Acces. They have to explain Kickstarter and their Backers now why they have to break their Promise in Base Concept. And that´s not easy.
I played all Games from that Gerne which come out (the complete old X-Com Series, complete UFO-After-Series, the new XCom-Series and UFO Extraterestials). Of course Xenonauts 1 too and some other Fan-Remakes. So I know the old Style (Reference Microprose X-Com-Series and Xenonauts 1) and the new One (Firaxis X-Com, Phoenix Point [only Vids and Pictures about you can´t play it on Steam, GoG] and Xenonauts 2 atm]). They all have their Advantages and Disadvanteges.
To minimise the Dillemma and not to have a big renege in the Base System my offer is to use the Middleway which Chaos Concept envolved for UFO Extraterestials. They used Fighter Bases (you can build external Defenses as well as some Hangars for the Fighters but not more) and used the 1 Main-Base-Build from the newest Concepts (where the Main-Story get handeld with Soldiers, R&D etc.).
To upgrade that Middleway (which is the only Way for the Game in the Base-Conflict) the secondary Bases can get a Storage Room for Plane-Parts too as well as Rooms for the Technikans. The Technicans and Pilots for that Bases are the only Humans there. Nothing else. The Hangars are used for Fighters and 1 Material-Transport from Main Base.
That´s the only Way to get a compromise between the Players of the new Conept-Stile and the old Concept Style.
I played all 3 Concepts. My Favorite is the new Style, but the Middleway envolved from Chaos Concept is the best Solution for that Case. If we get the Middleway it´s acceptable for me, because I knowed that it will be hard to finalise the Promises from Kickstarter
Have to say I am disappointed with your comments in this thread, especially the accusations against the devs, the general consensus by 90% based on those same backers and people who have pre paid (and if any of those did not vote then that is there own fault if they don't like the results, no, I am not saying you are one), is that they are happy with the idea of the base change so in no way is this a renege on a promise, in no way does it cast any negative light on the company, they stated the issues and what they thought then asked us, the backers to make a choice, we picked overwhelmingly to agree with the devs.
Plus the bottom line here is Chris has been very nice about it and said they will refund those who are very unhappy here, this is not normal behaviour for gaming companies, look at EA, the general response is a kick to the nuts so in all I think Chris and Goldhawk have been very open and honest the whole way through this, don't get me wrong, it would be wonderful for everyone to be happy and its crappy that you are obviously not, sorry for that, but 90% in favour of change is not something that can be ignored.
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Basically what these guys said, the X-Div team pretty much made everything you could collect outside of just UFOs being disassembled part of upgrading your arsenal too, you took apart the alien guns to get cores for more powerful tech for yourselves, also butchered alien corpses for materials to make better armour.
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One thing I love about X-Division is actually that you have to work at getting resources out of a crashed UFO, not just in shooting it down and capturing it but actually having engineers taking it to bits for components, is this any kind of option for X2 or are we going to have to get the X-Div guys modding like hell again?
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4 hours ago, Charon said:
I have been reading everything and i think these features would form the best game:
- YES - to a single main unattackable base. This would house ALL personell, including soldiers, scientist, engineers and other possible specialists. This base will be mainly responsible for power management and other, global upgrades.
- YES - to multiple (possibly infinite ) secondary bases which house radars, hangars, laboratories, workshops, possible generators, and all other, "real" tangible buildings. These are attackable bases and aliens can and will be able to attack them. Making them small, operatable bases with interesting building layouts, eg. being able to place corrdidors, and defensive structures in addition to the main buildings will make for more interesting decisions. Secondary bases are essential if you want to get any research, manufacture or other project done. It houses hangars for the aircraft which are essential to shoot down UFOs, and the planes have real range limitations ( at first - similar to X1 ). Since they are small players should be expected to place at least 2 - 3 right at the start, maybe make one science and one engineering base preloaded for the player to place at the start of the game.
- YES - to location specific boni/mali for secondary bases. One country can give a scienc bonus, and an aircraft range mali.
- YES - to boni for specialised bases, eg. building 2 workshops beside each other grants a +10% work efficiency and total work space - for each additional workshop.
- When scientist/engineers/specialists are working in a secondary base they are physically transfered there. This means the omnipotent teleporter array will have to leave a port open to that specific base - which consumes energy. Energy is mainly transfered from the main base, but smaller generators can be build in that specific base to relieve some of the stress, but only in that local base. The open port can only be filled with energy from the main base. More about that in the image below.
- If a base gets attacked, you will get asked whether or not you want to send in a team to defend your secondary base.
- YES - to global personal and storage. The main point of having more than 1 dropship is to have a bigger gang roaming around. X1 had the problem with your rooster actually being distributed over physical bases, which led to a lot of micromanagement, but having a single main base housing all your soldiers, and sending one team to defend a base, while having another one doing a small crashsite is not different from having 2 dropships - just with the added bonus of easier management, global soldier selection, item management, and equipment screen.
- YES - to possibly infinite dropships, or rather open teleporter arrays. Each open teleporter spot requires energy, and needs to be open as long as the ground combat is out there and fighting. So if you want to send out another team through the teleporter ( and also guarantee a way back in case of abortion ), you will need to pay the additional energy for each and every team.
- To avoid exploitation of the system, rerouting power can take between 24 - 48 hours ( so you cant just quickly power down something else to get a triple team ). And dont give me that "But why cant we send another team to the same mission ?" crap. X1 didnt allow for 2 chinooks to land in the same mission, and there wasnt an explanation for that either.
- Here is an original idea: I would like for ground combat missions to take up actual time. So lets say every turn is 10 minutes on the geoscape. You play for 12 turns and the mission takes up 2 hours. Once its finished you get teleported back to "when the mission started" and the geoscape will have an icon with "Team A fighting Crashsite - 3". You can resume normally, while already knowing the result of the fight. In this time you can potentially take on another mission, as long as your teleporter has enough energy. This idea would include the ground combat mission day - night state to change accordingly to the real geoscape time, eg. you can start fighting during the day, and after some time it starts to dusk.
- Now to the side/top view issue. In this setup i wouldnt mind it running either way. If you have confidence in your engine providing a good vertical firefight than make everything a side view. If you are not, than keep the fight horizontally and make the secondary bases with a top down view. The main base can be a side view, it looks quite good that way.
Think this gent just won the day, excellent post, love the ideas!
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4 hours ago, Ravn7 said:
At first, I thought only the stuff and troops can be teleported. Not something as big as a plane. But if it also applies to the dropship, then why do you need it at all? You can transport the troops with the weapons storage made in a shipping container.
The lack of a dropship (since you don't fly with it, then you actually don't need it) definitely wouldn't add anything to the game. One squad and a few dropships - that would be fine. But one teleporting dropship? That's too simplistic, in my opinion.
Have to agree here, teleporting dropship just doesn't make sense or fit with everything else, if you have the tech to teleport a massive aircraft then why the hell are you using crappy old ballistic guns from basic concept of which is 100 or more years old? and current designs from 30 years ago? why would you have the tech to teleport things but not have anything to defend your troops from more than a gnat farting at them?
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17 hours ago, SoulMan said:
How about taking the best of both worlds. Keep with the single base and current single drop-ship mechanics, but allow that base to be customized in a top down fashion. The "side view" would give a summary of every level (and wouldn't have to have specific side view art, though there could be some dynamic aspect to it based on what the level contains if desired, i.e. if a level is mostly hangers, then there would be a hanger summary background art that is loaded for that level), and each level could be customized in the top-down approach. The base would start with a depth of 1 and one 6x6 building grid to customize. The second floor (depth = 2) would have a cost to dig it out, which would then open the player up to another 6x6 building grid to customize. Each additional floor would have a higher cost associated to it, to help balance the added floor space.
That would make an interesting mechanic with base defenses too (if possible) to have a multi-level fight. i.e. as your base depth grows, the player could keep the important structures in the deeper floors and replace upper floors with defensive structures and the like.
Side View:
------------------------------------------------------ Ground
----------- Level 1: Floor Summary ------------ Click on the level to view the floor plan (Floor plan would the current top-down view)
----------- Level 2: Floor Summary ------------ "
- Button to start construction of next level -
Quite like the idea here, one base but with the extra floor options like this is very appealing.
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5 hours ago, Ruggerman said:
I didn't start this post, and I am not all that concerned with with rank system, as it is pointless.
But I have invested in this game, and that seams not to be as I would have liked, if they go on to make an X3 I probably want bother!!
Never said you did but it does seem to be an issue, as your posts indicate. As for the game side I think you should wait and see what is finally released before deciding something like the above, a lot can change in development and to be fair it's just a few text changes when the game is released to make any rank designations you want to have if it is not to your liking.
Worst case is a mod request maybe?
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11 hours ago, Kindred192 said:
I always found it odd in these games that your organization can own multiple dropships, but can't seem to figure out how to send them all on the same mission together.
Makes sense from a game balance perspective. Not so much from a real world logic perspective
Would be interesting being able to field two transports to the same location, two different start points for each team with a party in the middle of the map!
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Ruggerman, I really don't understand why this seems to bother you so much, it is entirely meaningless!
Post content counts, not post count.
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11 minutes ago, TrashMan said:
I do know programming, which is why I'm saying it. If altering this require massive work on multiple layers, then that would speak very poorly on the initial implementation of the system. There shouldn't BE multiple layers to a simple string display.
I think you missed something in regard to my posts here, I was talking about changing the rank to something more than cosmetic, an actual mechanism behind it that does a lot more than just display a bit of text, what Ruggerman was describing with the ability to do more and make the system more than cosmetic is certainly not a simple string display.
Phoenix Point - Gollop's new X-Com-like.
in Off-Topic
Posted
Agreed, after having many convos with an Indie game dev I know about Steam and EGS My "Damnit I dont want anything to do with them" has turned to "Hell i'm not buying off steam if i can help it!"
Still don't like the exclusive deals but I understand fully why devs are agreeing to them now.