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gotta say GizmoGomez if you've only had a couple of crashes and you are playing the same game I don't think you played it to far or for very long to only get a couple of crashes out of those two versions. Or maybe your just not admitting you had as much of a problem as I did with lockups crashes and corrupts and everyone else including those who don't want to admit it. As for all the different kinds of crashes and their different causes, there are just a couple that happen and always in the same incidents and have been for very long, way back to earlier builds-this is my concern. As for it being alpha I know full well what that means and that isn't my point.

Seems Chris lists the minor bug fixes and requested features but only all the minor bugs(not the major ground crash bug) that many here seem to be bothered by as fixed then everyone gets excited while waiting for it to be released, then it is released and everyone is happy with it dismissing the unfixed crash/save bug (for a while till they have it crash and it corrupts again.) Funny thing is a lot of people in this forum are acting as if everything is fine that there is no problem on their end with this Crash/save corrupt bug just minor bugs like that they want fixed. I know this is a problem for everyone who has the current build. You all have a work around that works for this? No, I don't think so.

I have to agree somewhat with Radiorob, regarding the crashes and corrupts saves. I think you should slow down a bit with adding features and polish and focus more on the ground crashes (especially in hidden movement and enemy turn). This has been going on since the first builds about two years ago. You can't even test the game when its crashing and corrupting the saves so you can't even progress far enough to see how the other missions and features are working. If this problem isn't fixed and all the other minor bugs people are complaining about and features are, then there is really no point in a beta or post beta. I usually play up until I see the first ground crash/corrupt save rears its ugly head and then wait till the next build and usually lately that's no further than 3 to 5 ground battles. This last build (17.6) when it froze in GC I would go to my desk top and just close the game out in the tool bar but eventually the save got corrupt. I have reported this ever since it first appeared and after repeatedly. Lately I see so many reports of this in the bug thread I see no point in mentioning it, I can only hope it will be fix next build. I'm afraid that the more that is added to the game with enemy AI, multiple crash sites, new maps and whatever the harder its going to be to fix this game breaking bug and maybe impossible at some point without the developers going completely crazy first. This might not be the case but I've seen some games developed from start to finish that crashed and froze and had various other bugs that after being finished continued to crash and freeze and were patched so many times till the developers gave up realizing it was impossible to fix and either considered starting a new engine or completely abandoned the whole project leaving the engine code for modders who wanted to give a stab at it. All this said I think its shaping up to be a really nice game with great potential. The AI can be quite deadly, and some of the maps are really nicely designed and laid out and have a nice aesthetic look to them- heck I was looking at a truck that looked almost as though you took it directly from a photo. But even from an Alpha tester stand point I can't stop worrying if that game ending crash/save corrupt will ever be fixed.

Silent Storm was the $hi! for sure. Loved that game too bad it didn't last. Very good tactical AI. Good use of fog of war and destructive cover or uncover. Beautiful and tactically functional map designs and graphics. That game deserved more support.

I like it just the way it is tone wise with the new UI background you are working on. At first I was thinking it should be brighter but we are looking from a far off distance where colors slightly fade. I think if looks much better than the dismal black. The way it is now it looks something like that space invaders screen shot Chollirem put up. Blah!!

Thanks, thothkins, for putting that up. Yeah that looks much better. But what about a lighter color and like http://www.wallcoo.net/nature/sz_216_hawaii_sky_and_sea_aquamarine_1920x1200/images/Aquamarine_color_of_sea_water_in_Hawaii_JY083_350A.jpg Not with the bubbles but with those two tones of blue in that picture

Oh, boy! I just noticed after writing this question that you have a post with pictures entitled "new geoscape UI preview" Which shows you are already working on what I asked for in this post. sorry for not noticing

Probably this has already been discussed but do you have plans to make the ocean blue? That black background is quite dismal after a while. The maps are very well done; accurate and realistic like from a satellite but I personally don't care for the black ocean. I realize this is like a last touch or refinement that there are certainly more important things to worry about with the game( namely crash bugs ) but in the end I think an aquamarine color for the ocean( greenish-blueish )would be much nicer.

Well I did manage to download it last night this time around but maybe I'll wait and not install it. The next version should be out soon and I don't like to keep deleting all the old files every time I go to the next version. I wish there was a way to uninstall it. I'm afraid that Just deleting the files in the main folder leaves a lot of old registry fragments on the hard drive and in windows. Is there a way to uninstall the whole program? Maybe, I need to run the installer to uninstall it?

I can't seems to download the stand alone of this version. Its taking too long. I tried leaving my computer on over night, last night, to no avail, it just cut off from the server and left and error message to the affect that it was disconnected. Right now it says 71KB/s with only 800megs downloaded after about 2 hours. I have dsl that runs about 250kb/s average. I know that is slower that usual but I've download 8-12 gig games from steam over night with no problem. I am from the United States, eastern part, Connecticut, that's near New York. I guess you don't have any strong servers in the USA. Should I just give up and wait for the next alpha version? I didn't bother to download it on release and not until now because of the date crash bug that people are experiencing. Should I then just wait for the next alpha build?

One was a small scout UFO3 I have a vehicle and soldiers. And as for it being mainly a bug fix look several post and back (it took weeks to get this build out) in the update threads and you will see Chris saying it was going to be primarily for bug fixing with some new maps and a little AI. And if you can't find it well he did nonetheless state it in one of his threads about this particular patch.

I have tried four new games on south america, north america and USSR. All crash when after I go to the crash site. Every time I try to load the ground battle it CTD. I can't load a ground combat. What happened? I thought this was mainly a bug fix build. This is the most unplayable yet.

Hmm... Thanks, Caine, I'll consider that.

I was complaining before about this myself and I agree there are just too many air battles after about the third ground battle: same thing where I lose funds because of not being able to do enough ground battles and eventually my base gets destroyed. I have so many fleets of fighter ufos in threes that in the end that's all I'm doing. I always start my bases in USSR by the way. Chris once said that this would be balance later that it wasn't in place for the AI yet to figure how much and at what time they should be attacking. So, for now maybe I'll build three more hangers at the beginning of my game. I end up tiring and eventually loses all my fighter planes.

Yes it is the ground combat and during the A.I.'s turn. Its mentioned in detail in the bug forum. This same problem keeps appearing in many of the builds though it may be a different cause each time, I don't know. The most stable build where we didn't have this ground combat freeze would be probably the one right before v13.

To be honest a lot of people are turned away by games that consistently lock up or crash early in the game every time they play it even if in beta or a demo. A lot of gamers don't have the patients for game stopping bugs like that, no matter how good the game and even with the most desired feature list- glitches and artifacts are common in most complex games, but crashes and lockups are a big turn away. So, I'd make sure these frequent lockups are for the most part ironed out before announcing it beta. I mean there will be an occasional crash or lockup by a few who are playing on their specific computer setups, even in the final released version but what is happening now is too often and early in the game not to mention there is no way of playing it without it happening. I've tired peoples suggest work-arounds they just don't work. Maybe you want to move along and keep building features into it and fix the bugs latter but I don't know maybe by then it will be too late there will be to many and too much complex code that can't be changed without offsetting another old bug.

I hope that ground combat freeze is fixed too. I stopped playing it about a week ago- couldn't get past second ground combat mission. I was looking forward to this bug fix more than any new features. These crashes ruin the game to where there's no point in playing it.

Lets start with: what is in the original X-com enemy unknown that is not in beta v12-including place markers? My main concern is not so much with extras as it is with good enemy AI in ground combat which understandably it doesn't have much of at this point. Also, I'd like to see more work done on the map generator. Soldier types, enemy types, what do you think should there be more? That is something else to think about. I think there is still a lot of work to be done fleshing it out and there is plenty to do there, so adding more content to what we already have may not be all that feasible. I know a lot of people don't like this but the extras can come later in an expansion or DLC. I think there is a lot in the game to make work and refine already and I will add in spite of what isn't refined and working it is a very fun and interesting game to play-or will be again once v12 is patched to prevent all the crashes and save problems. I played Max Payne 3 on the xbox 360 figuring it wasn't going to be much better on the PC also I didn't want to wait while everyone was playing it. I thought it was decent, decent enough for me to finish, though the First one for PC was superior in every way, in my opinion. The first one I installed and played more than once and even years latter, while MP3 I traded it in the following week. Even the graphics for the first one -PC version of course- looked a lot better than Max Payne 3 on xbox 360. Also, they over did all the slide show and blur effects not to mention the excess of Maxes painkiller and alcohol addiction- if he was doing all that he'd have been dead long before his story started in Brazil, let alone being a one man army. Narcotics and alcohol do no mix well. To have a daily habit like that is not at all believable.

3) Was it in the original X-Com? Xenonauts is billed as a “spiritual successor” to X-Com. When the harpies descend on Xenonauts at release, they will pick over every bone and squawk when something that was in X-Com doesn’t appear in Xenonauts. I'll answer this one. Yes players and self acclaimed veterans will pick it apart no matter what. But since it is intended to be the "spiritual successor" of X-com I think it should for the most part contain the same elements of game play as the original with some refinements but -and I don't need to say this judging how the game is currently going along with the developers intentions- but without streamlining or leaving out parts that may make the game at first difficult though interesting in the long run. Gorlom! what did you not understand about my post! Its quite clear. It is a reference to a current console game called Lollypop chainsaw which turned out to be a disappointing flop for many who wanted this kind of crap- get with it Gorlom! are you not a gamer! Google it. I don't always explain things I expect certain people to know. By the way what did you think of Max payne 3, Caine? Ok, and after this I'm out of this thread. I really don't think it is necessary and I've already stated why- reread it if you didn't understand me the first time, it is quite explicit. And, no I don't think it should be left the way it is. I was being sarcastic. If you want to follow Max_Caine's "refined Guidelines and rules for Chris then go ahead. Maybe Chris will want him to do this for him and everybody . But I'd think he'd want to handle things himself since it is his project and he is the lead developer and knows exactly what needs to be done. That's not my business regardless I want to make some requests and if Chris can't or doesn't want to do them for whatever reason so be it. So, you think you can make it easier on Chris, Max_Cain, by refining and articulating guidelines for everyone I think that will put limitations on Chris and everyone involve in the developing creative process of this game including those who will be playing it after. Is this Max Cain's game? or all those who are playing the beta and preordered it and for a reason I might add.

"Then pass me my pom-poms and multicoloured chainsaw." Lolly pop chainsaw! Augh! After that cheaply made, generic, piece of goo gob garbage, appeal to the masses catch cliche, I'd like to see a let's kill ditzy, shallow stereotypical cheerleaders with jack the ripper back to life playing the role of a modern day chainsaw wielding zombie.

Honestly, I don't think anyone needs any of these rules. It's going fine the way it is. He can tell us what he can and wants to do and we will just make suggestions or requests and he can knowing enough about the game and being the one who is developing it be the one to ultimately decided whether or not it will work or if he even wants it there in the first place. And the way you word all this- what I'd expect from you- as if asking us to answer to all these questions: " No, don't do any of this, the game is just fine as it is but maybe we should give him more money anyways and tell him he's done a great job and worked too hard already and to just go on a long vacation right now, which we will pay for." So after reading all this I am admittedly a little nauseated.

Ok. sorry I see it was already mentioned in the bug report thread-should have check there first.

Is anybody having a problem loading there saves? Even time I try to load any of my saves it CTDs-wondering if it didn't install right. By the way it looks great, alot of good features here. Its good to see xenonauts reaction fire added.

I think I remember you mentioning this and that's really what I wanted to know. Glad to here it won't be like this in the finished game. If all I was doing is air combat I wouldn't want to play for long. And no I don't hate the air combat if fact I like a few air fights before and in between going into ground combat it ties it all together and makes it more plausible. I just don't want to be doing it the whole rest of the game. What I enjoy the most is the ground combat and the research and base management each makes the other all the more exciting and interesting.

I am well aware what the alpha is an what it is for. I was just wondering if the over frequent air combat was a bug. Which most seem to agree it is. Max Cain you didn't understand my questions: of course I know that I have to "under go the air combat mini game for each UFO I shoot down. What I am most bothered by if you read my original post is that after only three crash sites and so three ground combat battles the whole rest of the game was shooting down these dam fighter UFOs and I mean endless attacks with no ground combat. So many are saying this is a bug. And maybe I wasn't about to pay my scientist and techs though I didn't see any warning.