Base Raid mission instead of just assault

[Grimaldi]

One of my favorite missions from the X-com franchise was an oddball from Xcom 3. The Cult of Sirius was a group of humans that supported the alien invaders, and while you could never destroy their faction, you could hurt it by raiding their facilities, destroying their equipment and ruining their finances. It's never really been recreated before or since in the franchise (or similar games), but instead it's always "kill all the enemies and destroy/capture the base. The new DEFCON/VIP elimination mission is a step in the right direction, but ultimately it's the same basic victory condition.

The Xenonaut teams are essentially small, elite commando units. In every other war, those aren't expected to capture or destroy an enemy base. Instead, they surprise the enemy, eliminate a critical target or two, hit as many collateral targets as they can, and then (hopefully) escape before an overwhelming response can concentrate. It gives the player a bit more investment in trying to balance causing more destruction (with whatever in-game benefits it gives) with risking Xenonaut casualties as the enemies keep growing in strength. Plus, it gives things like the incendiary weapons a more meaningful role, as causing a greater amount of damage over time is rarely effective in normal missions.

Just a thought for variety in ground mission types. Every ground mission doesn't have to be win/lose to be meaningful and fun, and just causing as much destruction as possible is always amusing.

[Ninothree]

Ok so two things to note, and I'm not saying them in unkindness: 

1. I agree with this idea wholeheartedly
2. I have heard it sooooo many times

I mean, this is nothing against the post or against Grimaldi for not having read and indexed the whole forum - but I'm just surprised at how much nostalgia this community has for Xcom Apocalypse, and in particular, raiding other factions. So, this isn't a complaint - that would be way too hypocritical - but I do wonder what the magic formula was for that game, if it could/should be reapplied, or if we all just happened to be growing up at that time, so those aspects of the game are fond memories.

Sorry for that lil tangent, like I said, it is not meant in 'shut the conversation down' kinda way, just an observation.

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In terms of the raid concept: there are surely applicable elements existing already in the framework of the game engine:

• Making use of the inventory system to collect items.
• A kill count to record damage inflicted.
• The option to retreat when things get too hot (I'm imagining an alarm sounding and a never-ending swarm of defenders spawning to fend you off).

As far as I'm aware, those are all things that were in place, in some form, in the first game. Though that doesn't mean it would be feasible to build a mission-type on the back of them.

The more interesting thing is, I think, that the raids posed an optional mission, which you could undertake at any time (for fun or to spam resources), and the rules of the mission were quite at odds with the usual: i.e. go the whole nine yards and don't worry about collateral damage. Blowing stuff up is always fun, and blowing stuff up without being told to do so is even funner. That is what games like GTA are based on - answer the phone and progress the game, or, hit that cop with a baseball bat and see how things go. That is missing from Xenonauts. Th game has a really enjoyable aspect of piecing together alien tech / building up your squad, but there isn't much scope for just messing, experimenting or being cruel and unusual to hapless enemies.

[Grimaldi]

No problem with your response. I did a quick search of the forums and didn't seem to find anything, but as you said, tough to check everything in a reasonable amount of time.

Objectively, the Xcom 3 raids were not really important to the overall game's mission, but I think they stand out because they were so different from every other mission in any other Xcom game. I don't really remember them being that risky for my personnel, even...it was just fun to watch everything burn and gun down under-equipped cultists.

I think the "magic" that makes that mission type so memorable and fun can be brought over to a game like Xenonauts, and actually have a more meaningful purpose to the game. Part of it involves rewarding destruction, and I think part of it (that would be a slight change) is the idea that you won't "win" the scenario...there will be tension built for the player trying to balance more destruction vs ever increasing aliens. It may be as crude as Xcom 2, with a radio message from HQ warning that enemy reinforcements are inbound with a timer, and the timer reset keeps getting shorter, and reinforcement size larger. Eventually, you fall back to where you started (or a new location) and evacuate.

As for mission type/reason...why are the alien bases on earth anyway? I never understood their purpose, so that makes it hard to come up with a reason for a surgical strike. Maybe there are human prisoners in the facility, and rescuing them gives a bonus to the region they were taken from. Maybe larger aerial threats, like terror missions and alien battle ships, start from the base instead of just randomly dropping in from space. They stock up on reapers bred at the base using prisoners before the terror attack. Whatever. Then, if your interceptors are weak, maybe you can attack the facility, hit the alien hanger, and damage the ship and/or it's fueling/arming facilities, delaying its launch.

As mentioned above, actually capturing an entire alien base would be hard, and a base should have unique equipment (compared to regular ships). Maybe instead of blowing everything up, there are just items throughout the facility. You fight through the corridors, trying NOT to blow much up, have your Xenonauts pick random alien artifacts off of table and walls, and flee, opening new research opportunities.

Just random thinking on how to spice up the ground combat a bit. Overall, the mechanics are great, but the missions objectives end up pretty repetitive (kill everything). Part of the fun of tactical combat games is overcoming the occasional limitation or restriction, and something along these lines adds that. 

[emikochan]

Apocalypse does seem really popular with all my friends that played it, though I never got to. that realtime/turnbased toggle was really interesting. I think the only time I saw it since was Dragon Age Origins.

[RustyNayle]

 

6 hours ago, Grimaldi said:

I don't really remember them being that risky for my personnel, even...it was just fun to watch everything burn and gun down under-equipped cultists 

Oh, a rocket to the face from a cultist was a very real possibility.  They did get other alien tech later on, too.

[Ninothree]

I like the idea of an alien base being much more of a stronghold. So they occupy a piece of territory and you can't just fly in there as your leisure. Nor, when you finally penetrate the outer defences, can you actually overwhelm the base in a single strike. The aliens would be too entrenched. You'd have other aims of destroying certain targets, like shield generators or atmospheric controls, that would then soften the base up to finish it later on.