StellarRat
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This EXCELLENT news! I'm really looking forward to seeing how it turns out. I'm also quite encouraged that you will be able to continue updating AI after the initial release. That means the AI will only get better. It rare for games to have good AI's these days. They just throw numbers at you and/or cheat to make it challenging instead of making the enemy smarter. Thanks for the info. I've done a game AI before and it took two of us working together for six months to get it right!Simply put: it won't.I want to be completely open and honest in this, so in detail: All of the decisions it will be allowed to make will only be those it would have made given sight/etc of its units. If you see the A.I. cheating or doing stuff based on something it shouldn't have known about; then I'm doing something wrong. To explain this a bit; I have to make some shortcuts here and there as belief systems (Knowledge based on uncertainty) are very costly in general. So behind the scenes, some trickery might occur.
Will you be using some kind of weighted targeting system to determine who they will fire at? Our system was designed to fire at the unit with the greatest offense and lowest defense first. Of course this was modified by range (chance to hit), number of units that could engage, strategic value, cover and a bunch of other factors.
So, I know you have a lot of work cut out for you. Good luck!
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If you plan to fight by brute force using suppressive fire to advance instead of stealthy anti-terrorist/special ops tactics then just take your time, bring up every weapon you've got and start blasting away. You won't need markers. After a couple of turns of MG and rocket fire against some aliens a house or whatever, they'll either be dead or suppressed along with any civilians that were in there. Cover and Suppress with 2/3's of your troops and move with 1/3. Just make sure to bring LOTS of ammo.
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I think I'm with Gauddlike. You shouldn't know whether a unit is suppressed. You'll just have to take your chances based on lack of movement or return fire. I like the surprise factor.
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Chris, I think you're struggling with the concept of AREA Fire for suppression vs. aimed fire to kill a specific target. Area Fire is usually only conducted by entire military units and/or those armed with fully automatic weapons and plenty of ammo. In the Xenonauts world only vehicles with MG's and the M-60 soldier could/should attempt this. The assault rifle really isn't designed for this and it would require many men and a lot of ammo firing at the same building or whatever to do what a single M-60 or vehicle MG could do. Additionally, a lot of small arms are mechanically limited to short bursts because the military found that soldiers were wasting a lot of ammo. The main exception being sub-machineguns. My opinion is that in ground scale of Xenonauts and mission type I'm not sure this tactic would be used.
If you really want to do this my suggestion is not to fire in a "circle", but instead to have a separate order for MG's to fire in either a vertical or horizontal line (in relation to the facing of the MG) of say 5 to 6 squares with maybe double or triple the normal number of rounds you are using now. Maybe use the center of the sweep as the aim point. All you need to do is randomly roll a chance to fire through/into any of squares in the sweep pattern maybe plus or minus a couple of additionally squares i.e. outside the intended pattern. That will scatter the shots nicely. It also mean some tiles will get "hit" multiple times while others won't get hit all. Again this is realistic. In essence you will randomly target the terrain tiles not the a unit. In any of the targeted squares if someone happens to be there then proceed with your hit calculations. Obviously, this will be VERY bad for civilians in the "beaten zone". That ought to be good enough to do what you want.
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The only thing I want to know is if the AI is going to cheat. Example: Will it base it's actions on only what it has or can see on the map? Or is it going to cheat and make decisions based on knowing where all Xenonauts are located? Will it know what kind of weapons all Xenonauts are carrying or only on what it has seen a unit fire? Etc... Finally, please, please, please don't make the AI hide the last alien on the map so you have to search every part of the town for hours to finish a map! Consider having it surrender, do an banzai charge, or blowing itself up along with as many civilians as possible, anything but hiding in a closet!
I'm with Max on the civilians. They ought to run for cover and stay put. If an alien or Xenonaut approachs they ought run away or in the case of Xenonaut at least make room for them to get by. They definitely shouldn't run around in circles or back and forth in open ground. Or into burning buildings or fire.
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Well, in that case, I'll stick with it was PROBABLY a Caesan Guard of some kind. If I remember right, they occasionally carry heavy plasma weapons.Aliens are supposed to show as caesans(sp?) when the sprite is missing.I'm fairly sure that any eventual death animation is the same. IIrc the previous reports of invisible aliens have reported invisible sebillians showing the caesans death animation. So just because the death animation shows you a grey doesn't mean it really is one.
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Well, I was thinking a few squares maybe five or so...I wouldn't want to hear it across town either, but then again, even if you could hear it the whole time you couldn't tell what direction it was.Would be bad design if it started playing before you could see the UFO. so maybe not hen you get close but hen you are inside it? -
I might see your point based on those comments, but when a unit is suppressed in Xenonauts it stops firing and moving even in open ground, so it isn't increasing it's chance of surviving. In fact, it is decreasing it's chance by not returning fire. If cowering substantially reduced the chance of being hit I might agree with you, however, our units cannot go prone and reduce their profile and even if that were true, why wouldn't they return fire?Ah, I would contest that suppressed = scared in the Xenonauts model. The reason I do this is from the following posts:And from Suppression Mechanics
So, as you can see, a suppressed unit is not scared. If a suppressed unit is not scared then we can apply the rulings you have given to non-biological units to biological units, for exactly the same reason.
However, I am being unfair. A drone doesn't need to be autonomous. It could be controlled by telepresence. In which case, the survival instinct is dimmed - the pilot is not physically present. However, it would still be present, perhaps enforced by the CO reminding the operator exactly how much that drone costs. And if the telepresence link is especially good, then the operator can be fooled into thinking his is present on the battlefield, even when he isn't, which would enhance the survival instinct.
The remote operator argument is plausible, but again, if your 10 bazillion dollar Terminator Mark 1000 is in danger you're going to get to cover while shooting back not just stop and get it sent to junkyard.
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Yes, but when you are "suppressed" in the Xenonauts model you are unable to do anything because you're too scared to move or fire. A machine without emotions could certainly have a self-preservation program, but it would simply move itself out of danger or destroy the threat or both. If there is no place to move to it would certainly fire in hopes of destroying the threat. It would never just stop and do nothing. In a firefight to do nothing is nearly always going to get you killed. Either run or fight. Once the enemy has engaged you those are really your only choices.Suppression certainly figures in a certain emotional quantity. It also figures a logical quantity as well. A suppressed unit does not necessarily need to be scared, but it does need to be convinced that to move out of cover is is to die. I would make the argument that a machine can be programmed to determine very quickly the probability of its survival based upon the amount of incoming fire it is receiving, and if that probability reaches a pre-set figure, it will not risk its valuable self any further than it has to. -
The question isn't whether a drone knows what's happening to it, it's whether or not it gets "scared" and freezes up. I'd say no it's just a machine.
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Would a "drone" be suppressable?And Oathbreaker, FYI, there are three planned types of Terror Drone, each larger than the last. So it's not an isolated example. -
How do you know it's not just going to the bathroom? ;-)
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When one of your soldiers gets close to a UFO you should hear some kind of weird UFO noise in the background (if it's not wrecked.) I'm thinking some kind of warbbling noise like they made in the OLD War of Worlds movie (1953.) That would definitely add to the suspense.
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I think two levels of suppression would be fine. One where the person/alien won't move and one where it won't move or fire. I'm not 100% sure the marker should tell you how suppressed the target is. IRL, you would probably know they looked pinned down, but not whether or not they'd be willing to fire. It might also be good to have suppression occasionally cause the target to just run away from closest enemy at maximum speed. I think that used to happen in the old XCom.
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Would it be possible to have the important tactical formulas put in configuration files so we can mod them? I'd like control over accuracy and damage formulas. Also, if we could ASSIGN the formula we want to use to a specific weapon that would be really cool.
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Well, I don't think the amount you miss by is accuracy related. If you have a complete miss it at all it can go very wide no matter how experienced your soldier is. If the arc of misses decreased with experience that would make me feel a little better. The wiki says the shot scatter formula is outdated and doesn't show it, I so can't be sure. I know it's "very XCom", but a lot of stuff in XCom was probably done that way due hardware constraints and release deadlines. For example, doing a good AI can take a lot of CPU cycles, so back in those days what you could do might have been limited by the amount of time the machine sat and thought between turns. No one would have wanted to play a game where AI took an 5 minutes to calculate the best possible moves. On a modern PC those same calculations would take seconds. I think tighter bursts would increase in the immersion for "realism nuts" and wouldn't hurt anything as far as gameplay goes. I don't see a downside. The best solution would be to allow users to mod the scatter and all the other important tactical calculations in the game (damage, accuracy, etc...)I don't mind my recruits "spraying all over the countryside." That is very X-COM. As long as it gets better as their accuracy rating improves, which has been my experience with this build, then I'm happy. -
The accuracy calculation seems wrong to me.
The calculation is: Shooter Accuracy * Accuracy Modifier * (Range to Target / Weapon Operational Range) = Unmodified Accuracy
Shouldn't the bolded section be: Weapon Operational Range / Range To Target ??
The way I read the current calculation the weapons would get MORE accurate as range increased. That can't be right.
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That's fine with me as long as they aren't spraying all over the countryside.
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I think it did. I remember catching a brief glimpse of it.
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Because every other alien was one of those and I when finally killed it it appeared briefly as it fell. I know it was facing North because that's the direction would have to have faced to fire on my guy from it's position.
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Our Department of Corrections uses electrically charged shields to deal with unruly inmates. If you touch the shield you get tasered. That's an idea!Personally I'd also mount something like a small claymore on the outside of those combat shields. Something to ah... discourage the Chryssalid that got too close for comfort. =) -
OK, guys, in case you hadn't noticed, I've put up the full mod as "More Realistic Gunpowder Weapons v 1.0" in this section. If you try it please let me know what you think and, of course, if there are any bugs I need to fix. BTW, from my work computer I'm not able to insert the link to the page, so if someone wants to do that thanks.
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OK, here is the beta of the gunpowder weapons mod this includes the buckshot mod for shotguns and a some tweaks to the assault rifle and pistol. The biggest changes you'll notice are that the pistol is now a machine pistol and the shotgun is much more dangerous.
The machine pistol can fire three round bursts. I modeled this after the H & K VP70. The weapon fires a standard 9mm pistol round. It was used in the 70's by anti-terrorist forces and special ops troops. It is about the same size as most semi-autos, but has an 18 round magazine and an incredible firing rate of 2200 rounds per minute. However, it is mechanically limited to three rounds per trigger pull by the manufacturer. Although I've reduced the damage it does per shot to be more realistic as compared to rifles, you will be able to fire multiple bursts and at close range you can do some damage. You also have a greater chance of suppressing the target. It's probably the best small one handed firearm available, but it is a weapon of last resort.
I slightly increased the assault rifle damage from 25 up to 30. No other changes.
I increased the firing rate of the M-60 to the proper level. It doesn't fire any more bullets per burst, it just fires them more quickly. Strictly a visual effect change.
Finally, the shotgun now fires buckshot. I modeled it after the Mossberg 500 pump action 12 gauge. This weapon is a rugged combat shotgun widely used by the US Marines and Army in the 70's. The number of shells was dropped to 8 per magazine from 12. The action points required to fire were increased to match the assault rifle plus a couple points to work the slide (pump). Also, although slightly quicker to aim than a rifle the recoil requires more recovery time between shots. The reload time was GREATLY increased. Unlike most military weapons there is no removeable magazine or clip to just pop in. It will take most soldiers nearly a turn to reload this weapon as the shells have to be loaded one by one into the magazine. I would have made this even higher, but I was afraid some soldiers would never be able to reload the weapon since you can't take one than one turn to reload a weapon (at least as far as I know.) The biggest change was the damage was increased 50% from 40 to 60. Armor penetration was greatly reduced and is now slightly worse than a pistol. However, at close range this is one shot killer for most early aliens. This NOT the weapon to take if you expect to fight at long distance.
Here are the file changes:
1. I would simply copy the bullet folder over with the new name "buckshot".
So, copy C:\Program Files (x86)\Desura\Common\xenonauts\assets\projectiles\bullet to C:\Program Files (x86)\Desura\Common\xenonauts\assets\projectiles\buckshot
2. In new the buckshot folder replace bullet_e.png with the attached picture and rename it buckshot_e.png
3. Create or replace the contents of bullet_e.xml with this:
<?xml version="1.0"?>
<!DOCTYPE sequence SYSTEM "sidewalkdtd">
<sequence name="C:\Documents and Settings\Chris\Desktop\blast-red\gunshot\bullet_e.xml" source="./bullet*.png">
<img regx="36" regy="0" name="buckshot_e" savedname="buckshot_e.png" w="0.000000" h="0.000000"/>
<framelist>
<frame regx="35" regy="-1" name="buckshot.png" w="55" h="13" x="0" y="0"/>
</framelist>
</sequence>
And rename the file as buckshot_e.xml
4. Create or replace the contents of bullet_spectre.xml with this:
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<spectre id="rocket" version="1">
<state id="default" name="buckshot" pivotX="30" pivotY="20" sortPoint="0.49">
<anim src="projectiles/buckshot/buckshot_e" anim="main"/>
</state>
</spectre>
and rename to buckshot_spectre.xml
5. Replace these entries in your C:\Program Files (x86)\Desura\Common\xenonauts\assets\weapons_gc.xml file with corresponding entries below:
<Weapon name="weapon.pistol" bulletType="normal" emptySound="Empty Click 1">
<props range="6" hands="1" recoil="0" weight="1.5" isHeavy="0" clipSize="18" reloadAPCost="8" reloadSound="Weapon Pistol Reload" reactionModifier="1.8"/>
<SingleShot sound="Weapon Pistol Single" delay="0.6" suppressionValue="20" suppressionRadius="1">
<Set1 ap="9" accuracy="65" />
<Set2 ap="11" accuracy="73" />
</SingleShot>
<BurstFire ap="15" accuracy="45" sound="Weapon Assault Rifle Burst" delay="0.2" shotCount="3" suppressionValue="20" suppressionRadius="2" />
<GUIImage name="gui/weapons/pistol" />
<GroundImage name="grounditemimages/pistol.png"/>
<Ammos>
<Ammo name="ammo.ballistic.pistol" type="kinetic" damage="15" mitigation="5">
<Projectile spectre="projectiles/bullet/bullet" speed="1200"/>
<Impact spectre="particles/bulletplume/bulletplume"/>
</Ammo>
</Ammos>
</Weapon>
<Weapon name="weapon.rifle" bulletType="normal" emptySound="Empty Click 1">
<props range="18" hands="2" recoil="0" weight="5" isHeavy="0" clipSize="30" reloadAPCost="15" reloadSound="Weapon Assault Rifle Reload" reactionModifier="1.0"/>
<SingleShot sound="Weapon Assault Rifle Single" delay="0.6" suppressionValue="20" suppressionRadius="1">
<Set1 ap="17" accuracy="75" />
<Set2 ap="20" accuracy="85" />
<Set3 ap="23" accuracy="100" />
</SingleShot>
<BurstFire ap="35" accuracy="50" sound="Weapon Assault Rifle Burst" delay="0.6" shotCount="3" suppressionValue="32" suppressionRadius="2" />
<GUIImage name="gui/weapons/AssaultRifle.png"/>
<GroundImage name="grounditemimages/assaultrifle.png"/>
<Ammos>
<Ammo name="ammo.ballistic.rifle" type="kinetic" damage="30" mitigation="10" isHypervelocity="0">
<Projectile spectre="projectiles/bullet/bullet" speed="1200"/>
<Impact spectre="particles/bulletplume/bulletplume"/>
</Ammo>
</Ammos>
</Weapon>
<Weapon name="weapon.shotgun" bulletType="normal" emptySound="Empty Click 1">
<props range="6" hands="2" recoil="0" weight="5" isHeavy="0" clipSize="8" reloadAPCost="45" reloadSound="Weapon Shotgun Reload" reactionModifier="1.4"/>
<SingleShot sound="Weapon Shotgun Single" delay="0.6" suppressionValue="30" suppressionRadius="2">
<Set1 ap="19" accuracy="83" />
<Set2 ap="22" accuracy="90" />
</SingleShot>
<BurstFire/>
<GUIImage name="gui/weapons/Shotgun.png"/>
<GroundImage name="grounditemimages/shotgun.png"/>
<Ammos>
<Ammo name="ammo.ballistic.shotgun" type="kinetic" damage="60" mitigation="4">
<Projectile spectre="projectiles/buckshot/buckshot" speed="1200"/>
<Impact spectre="particles/bulletplume/bulletplume"/>
</Ammo>
</Ammos>
</Weapon>
<Weapon name="weapon.machinegun" bulletType="normal" emptySound="Empty Click 1">
<props range="30" hands="2" recoil="65" weight="12.5" isHeavy="1" clipSize="50" reloadAPCost="25" reloadSound="Weapon Machinegun Reload" reactionModifier="0.6"/>
<SingleShot />
<BurstFire ap="45" accuracy="35" sound="Weapon Machinegun Burst" delay="0.6" shotCount="5" suppressionValue="40" suppressionRadius="4" />
<GUIImage name="gui/weapons/machinegun.png"/>
<GroundImage name="grounditemimages/machinegun.png"/>
<Ammos>
<Ammo name="ammo.ballistic.machinegun" type="kinetic" damage="40" mitigation="15">
<Projectile spectre="projectiles/bullet/bullet" speed="1200"/>
<Impact spectre="particles/bulletplume/bulletplume"/>
</Ammo>
</Ammos>
</Weapon>
6. (optional only affects weapon description on soldier screen) Find and Replace pistol damage, shotgun damage, assault rifle damage and clip size numbers in your C:\Program Files (x86)\Desura\Common\xenonauts\assets\weapons.xml file with entries below:
in the weapon.pistol section
damage
<Cell ss:StyleID="s66"><Data ss:Type="Number">15</Data><NamedCell
clipsize
<Cell ss:StyleID="s66"><Data ss:Type="Number">18</Data><NamedCell
weapon.shotgun section
damage
<Cell ss:StyleID="s66"><Data ss:Type="Number">60</Data><NamedCell
clipsize
<Cell ss:StyleID="s66"><Data ss:Type="Number">8</Data><NamedCell
weapon.rifle section
damage
<Cell ss:StyleID="s66"><Data ss:Type="Number">30</Data><NamedCell
That's it. Let me know what you think!
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Thank you for that lesson in kinetic power in rifle and pistol rounds.
You seem to be right. But I don't think it would be fun to nerf the pistol that much for those of us that are not as interested in real life weapons. (wait this is the modding forum. Are you suggesting reducing it in a mod or reducing it for the official release? If it's just for the mod then never mind me I'll back away from this thread)
Thank you for keeping an open mind and looking at my "evidence".
I'm going to present my mod to Chris as a possible balance for some of the weapons. If he wants to put it into the "official" game fine. If not I'll probably just release it as a mod. The only issues I have with the "official" weapons other than the stuff we've talked about here is that the arc of automatic fire and misses is way too huge. In real life only a complete dufus could miss by as much as some of our highly trained Xenonauts miss by now. There really isn't a good reason for it to be this way. By the way, before you write off my pistol ideas try the mod I'm making to change them into machine pistols. I have a feeling you'll not think they're so "nerfed" then. I should have it done tonight all will re-post ALL my changes at once.
The new guy: A.I. Developer #42 & Discussion on A.I.
in Xenonauts-2 Releases & Patch Notes
Posted