Ogilvy the Astronomer
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Posts posted by Ogilvy the Astronomer
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44 minutes ago, Raffik said:
Drone module
I like the idea of a drone for scouting, albeit a very fragile and unarmed one. Maybe buildable once you kill / capture one of the alien servitor gun drones? To prevent it being OP it could have quite narrow vision. To keep things simple maybe it doesn't have its own TUs, but rather uses the operator's TUs to move.
50 minutes ago, Raffik said:Motion scanner
Great idea, I'd love to have a motion scanner in the game. Rather than having the signal shown on the battlescape, how about an old-school alternative. See @FLIR's excellent post here, which includes a link to an image of the original X-COM motion scanner visuals.
58 minutes ago, Raffik said:Claymore mine
58 minutes ago, Raffik said:Proximity land mine
Personally I never use these kinds of devices in these games, but if other people would like to then why not?
FYI, for more module ideas I recommend checking out @GreyICE's thread here.
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17 hours ago, Raffik said:
Did you have something like this in mind perhaps? Found this suggestion in the X2 Discord. Add another bar, that would show the capacity for extra equipment the dropship could take..
I mean more like this for my bonus idea a (give dropships a storage unit that a player can fill and Xenonauts can access during a mission. This unit could come as default, or be a manufacturing project):
The size of locker and weight capacity should be dictated by gameplay balance. (The one in my screenshot is probably OP). The contents of this dropship storage locker would be in addition to the equipment that the Xenonauts are carrying on their person, and could be accessed on the battlefield by soldiers in the dropship.
My personal preference would be to have this, and in addition not allow overburdened soldiers onto the dropship. This is possible solution #2 (make it so soldiers can only fly in a dropship if they’re not carrying over their ability. Soldiers can still carry too much on the battlefield but with TU penalties, as is the case currently):
If players really want loads of kit then there's also bonus idea b (add a storage unit as a secondary weapon option for the MARS. This could make it like a pack mule). I won't make a screenshot for that!
That's how I'd try changing things anyway, I appreciate there are other viewpoints!
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Sounds good. Damaged UFOs could have more entry points too.
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1 hour ago, Komandos said:
I don't see any problems (for the balance of the game) in the fact that players can overload their soldiers, and then drop additional equipment on the floor, during the first round.
This is interesting, and I think gets to the bottom of the issue. We just don't agree on being able to bring whatever equipment affecting balance: I think it does, you don't. I don't see that either of us will convince the other, but luckily that's OK as it's for the devs to decide whether this is an issue worth addressing or not
1 hour ago, Komandos said:I see the problem in the fact that the player cannot take the necessary equipment without this method.
I definitely disagree here. I've played for 24 hours and never felt the need to overburden my soldiers in the way you do. It never even occurred to me. On the contrary, I rarely found that the weight limit was restrictive.
1 hour ago, Komandos said:Players want to be able to take more equipment with them, and this opportunity should be given to players (preferably in a way that is more convenient for players).
It seems that some players want this. If the devs agree, then it does indeed make sense to have a method that's convenient. The dropship locker and MARS storage secondary "weapon" seem like fun ideas.
1 hour ago, Komandos said:The player on the base has an unlimited supply of equipment. Why, with such resources, should a player save equipment consumption on the battlefield?
It's not about saving equipment consumption on the battlefield, but rather making the battlefield too easy if you can take whatever equipment and in whatever quantities you want. This is back to our fundamental disagreement. I appreciate that you don't think that this is an issue.
1 hour ago, Komandos said:At a given time, the player can load into the plane: either 9 soldiers; or 8 soldiers and one tank (combat platform). The combat platform is a heavy thing and is capable of destroying walls with its weight. At the end of the game, the player will have heavy armor capable of breaking obstacles with its weight. And planes should easily lift all these heavy objects into the sky. If you create restrictions (limit) on the carrying capacity of aircraft, then with a tank (combat platform) and heavy armor on soldiers, planes may not take off at all.
This is what I was saying about internal game logic taking precedent over real-life logic if it makes for a better game. I'd have no problem with the dropship having a capacity of 9 units, including up to one MARS, and a separate cargo hold with a capacity of x kg. Even if that wouldn't make sense in real life. I expect most players would accept this without thinking too much, but if it needed justification then just say that the dropships have these limits so they can stay balanced in the air.
I'm going to exit this now as unless anyone has any radical new ideas I think there are enough viewpoints and suggestions in the thread to help the devs make any changes they feel are necessary.
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30 minutes ago, cman1983 said:
A tad touchy are you not no 1 is saying you can't use it's a chat forum and we just running what we feel are required and no 1 is saying your wrong either jees we trying to bash heads together and give the developers some outside thot and feed back.
Why on thees forums does alot of people take offence to others suggestions and thoughts I don't but it's a chat forum for developing our game that we have all bought and are entitled to say our thoughts feelings without arguments getting started
Come guys let's be sensible
Maybe some nuance has been lost because of using written messages here, but for what it's worth I didn't think there was anything out of hand with Raffik's message. It seemed reasonable and level-headed.
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3 hours ago, Komandos said:
This is a real tactical device.
Whether or not it can happen in reality doesn't matter much -- this is a game about shooting aliens after all! What's fun and relatively balanced gameplay-wise comes first, and then you fit that into the game's internal worldbuilding logic -- or change the lore to accommodate the new ideas. There are no photos of fighter jets shooting down UFOs in real life, but I'm guessing you don't object to that in the game.
I'm having trouble understanding your points, so here's something you could do to help me. I'll copy out my suggestion summary again. Could you please state how you'd change it? Maybe add in a possible solution #4, or bonus idea #c? Or are you saying that you don't think that the issue as I've written it is actually a problem; in which case would you support solution #1? I just want clarity on what you're proposing.
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The issue: players can overload their soldiers, then dump excess equipment on the dropship floor during turn 1. This gives plenty of equipment and can unbalance the game.
Possible solutions:1. Do nothing. Accept that this is how some players want to play the game.
2. Make it so soldiers can only fly in a dropship if they’re not carrying over their ability. Soldiers can still carry too much on the battlefield but with TU penalties, as is the case currently.
3. Give each dropship a weight capacity that includes all the equipment carried onboard.
In addition, there are two bonus ideas:
a. Give dropships a storage unit that a player can fill and Xenonauts can access during a mission. This unit could come as default, or be a manufacturing project.
b. Add a storage unit as a secondary weapon option for the MARS. This could make it like a pack mule.
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6 minutes ago, Komandos said:
You mix the concepts of "limit" and "give to the player" into one pile. If the player cannot throw an additional box of grenades into the helicopter (as a soldier can afford in reality), then this refers specifically to restrictions, and not to obtaining unnatural opportunities.
It looks something like this: if I made a remark for you, "the fact that a unit does not have the ability to move at all looks unnatural," and you would answer me, "if a unit is given an unlimited limit of movement, then it looks more unnatural."
It's not that aircraft should have the same unlimited warehouse as a military base.
The point is that aircraft should also have inventory.
I'm not quite sure what you mean here, but in any case lots of interesting points have been made and the devs can decide what, if anything, they'd like to change!
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7 minutes ago, Komandos said:
What's wrong if a soldier takes into battle not two grenades, but four, and leaves a backpack with additional grenades on the floor of the transport? How can this spoil the balance of power in a game where aliens are able to win only with the help of numbers and endless reinforcements?
To clarify, I think it's OK to have some extra equipment on the dropship if that's what players want to do -- hence bonus idea a, mentioned earlier. But allowing every solider to overload and then drop equipment on the dropship floor feels more like an exploit than intentional gameplay design. With a dropship locker you could more carefully control how much extra equipment is bought along.
It doesn't sound like you think there should be any limits on how much equipment can be bought into battle, instead providing balance by altering the number / lethality of the aliens. This isn't personally how I'd do things, but it is an approach that could work -- hence my proposed solution option #1, which is to do nothing and keep things as they are.
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15 minutes ago, Komandos said:
What balance in the game can this upset? Tota, in which the player must kill one alien with one grenade, and the second with one burst from a machine gun (and nothing more). If the player takes more equipment with him, he will have the opportunity to kill two aliens with either two grenades; or two bursts from a machine gun; or one grenade and one burst from a machine gun. How can this upset the balance of the game?
There are a few examples that spring to mind. Maybe a player drops assault shields all over the dropship floor, and just collects a new one whenever their original breaks. Or they fill their soldiers' inventories with lots of large, heavy modules, and run to the dropship to get any extra equipment they need when a specific situation crops up, e.g. lots of grenades. It wouldn't be how I'd personally like to play the game, mind you! Consider that the whole concept of items having sizes and weights is so that you the player need to make tactical decisions; and to prevent soldiers becoming OP.
18 minutes ago, Komandos said:I understand that the developers want to create difficulties on the battlefield that the player's soldiers will overcome. But it seems to me that it is better to create difficulties by increasing the capabilities of the enemy, rather than limiting the capabilities of the player's soldiers.
I see what you're saying about increasing the capabilities of the enemy. If you follow that logic to its conclusion, why have any soldier limits at all? Why not give them infinite equipment (as dropping kit all over the dropship floor is heading toward), and just increase the number of enemies accordingly? Some people might prefer that, but it does't really appeal to me personally.
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7 minutes ago, Jorlem said:
I'm not a fan of there being a hard cap on the carry capacity, I very much prefer the current soft cap. If there must be a hard cap, I think it should be set somewhat higher than the carry capacity soft cap. That way you aren't blocked if a grenade or ammo pack puts you just one or two over the weight capacity.
Honestly though, I think the idea of a limited storage locker on the dropship that you can fill with what resupplies you think you'll need is much better than hard capping soldiers' weight/carry capacity.
I think that's a fair opinion. But what would stop a player overloading their soliders just to drop kit in the dropship floor and filling a dropship locker?
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9 minutes ago, cman1983 said:
Interesting I'd prefer option 3 with with a and/b but that's my style n preference
I think that would work too. The reason I'd go for option 2 is that I think it's a bit easier to understand. When you're equipping your soldiers for the dropship, if you go over their weight capacity there would be a message saying "Over weight capacity, soldier cannot board the dropship" or similar. It's immediate and obvious. With option 3 there would need to be another readout somewhere tracking the total weight for the dropship. People might also wonder if they could take fewer soldiers but more equipment. But option 3 could definitely still work. I think they're all valid choices and it's down to style and preference, as you say.
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Here’s a summary, as I see it.
The issue: players can overload their soldiers, then dump excess equipment on the dropship floor during turn 1. This gives plenty of equipment and can unbalance the game.
Possible solutions:1. Do nothing. Accept that this is how some players want to play the game.
2. Make it so soldiers can only fly in a dropship if they’re not carrying over their ability. Soldiers can still carry too much on the battlefield but with TU penalties, as is the case currently.
3. Give each dropship a weight capacity that includes all the equipment carried onboard.
In addition, there are two bonus ideas:
a. Give dropships a storage unit that a player can fill and Xenonauts can access during a mission. This unit could come as default, or be a manufacturing project.
b. Add a storage unit as a secondary weapon option for the MARS. This could make it like a pack mule.
Personally, I’d go for solution 2 and bonus ideas a and b. I think this combination is simple, intuitive, but gives the opportunity for different playstyles without unbalancing the game.
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17 minutes ago, cman1983 said:
That's what I said aswell weight got to be a factor if can only cary 9 soldiers or 8 n a mars at start
Well the limit to the number of soldiers / MARS units is for gameplay balance rather than because of the actual weight that the helicopter can carry, right? But I guess if weight is used to explain away how many people it can transport, then it wouldn't be hard to expand that to equipment. Maybe it would over-complicate things, I don't really know.
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1 hour ago, cman1983 said:
Yeh but what happens if u run out ano for example
It's very easy for a soldier to carry ample ammo with the current weights of items. In 24 hours of playing I don't think I ever had to even reload a ballistic or gauss weapon. Lasers are the exception, with their smaller capacities. To be honest, overloading soldiers and dropping spare supplies on the dropship floor never occurred to me because ammo was always so plentiful. So I don't think it's much of a problem?
However, this running out of ammo scenario situation does tie into a suggestion I made somewhere else on the forum: make it so your soldiers can pick up and use dropped alien weapons, but with significant accuracy penalties, and perhaps other deterrents too, such as a risk of the alien weapon exploding every time you use it. So, if you actually do run out of ammo and are desperate, you've still got an option, albeit a risky one.
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Another option is to simply not allow soldiers to be loaded with more weight than they can carry. That could work well on its own or in conjunction with a dropship storage module upgrade.
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What if dropships had a weight limit for all the equipment they can carry? I.e. everything carried by your soldiers. It might be too tricky to balance, but perhaps it could prevent over-loading soldiers just for them to drop kit on the dropship floor during turn 1.
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5 hours ago, GIraaa said:
Personally, I haven't had a chance to play a base defense mission as all UFOs would get destroyed by my base cannons (just 2 cannons on base get the job done), which I think needs to be adjusted, as it's just way too easy to avoid a base defense mission. Regardless, I made a post in another thread about introducing AI controlled combat through "generals" that have their own skills and leveling ramp, so in essence, as a commander, and before the mission starts, you give out the strategic orders of what kind of strategy you want your base defenders to take, and your general executes it tactically. All you got to do is grab some popcorn and watch your soldiers eliminate the alien intrusion, I think this would be a very fun and entertaining experience through being able to simulate different combinations of weapons and different strategies and simply watch them in execution without having to micromanage every single move on your own. Obviously, there are many different ways to possibly tweak this base defense experience, like adding security stations, cameras, turrets, and other in base upgrades which can give you an edge once the base defense battle is on.
Hmm, I can't say I'd enjoy delegating base defence missions entirely to AI and just watching the game play out. But this is interesting in that it highlights how different people want to play the game in different ways, and the developers seem keen to allow this whenever possible.
With this in mind, what if there was an extra unit you could recruit -- Base Defence Guard -- that's essentially an AI controlled "local forces" kind of soldier, just for base missions. Maybe you hire them in squads of five, and maybe they need their own special barracks building in a base. In any case, for your kind of ideal scenario, you could just hire loads of these troops and let them fight out the aliens without any input from you -- you just watch it, popcorn in hand as you say! My style would be to have a few squads of these troops, backed up by a couple of Xenonauts that I'd be controlling. These Base Defence Guards could be a nice alternative / complement to the sentry guns, which I think are currently a bit too good (and look ridiculous on their tea-trolley castor wheels!)
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2 hours ago, Hapato said:
Having played 1.28b and 1.29 to the bitter end I think I am entitled to offer an opinon.
First. with the common enemy being the aliens, there could be a few more options. For example area defense.
Say, for example that you are in Morocco and those pesky aliens invade. The local army will fight them to the ends of their toelerance and ammo. Then xenonauts are asked to defend the eastern end or southern end or whatnot for say 17 rounds until reinfrorcements from northern morocco arrive.
What if you started a mission controlling local forces. You're badly outgunned, but you have one objective: hold the landing site for x turns. If you do that, then the Xenonaut dropship arrives with your regular forces, and you take the fight to the aliens. Maybe a bit different from what you're suggesting, but it's what sprang to mind when you said "area defense".
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3 hours ago, Alienkiller said:
I say it directly: The System is good as it is and for everyone since the last 3,5 Decades understandable (from the Veteran to the unaware Gamer). That´s why this System didn´t get changed since 3,5 Decades as it works perfect as an famous quote give us: "Never change a perfect running System."
That System get used for all Strategic-Games of different Gernes with the same Basic-Component (no 100% HP again if you don´t have Hospitals / a long Healing-Rest etc., with every hit the HPs reduce to evtl. RIP and you can only heal what is left); the big difference is that in more realistic Games the HPs are not limited to max. 75% HP Combat-Healing and for the Anti-Alien-Gerne are limited to maximum 75% Combat Healing.
You can spin it like you whish, you will ever get the same outcome. The Soldier get his Wounds healed, so that no Blood runs out until she / he didn´t get hit again. The big difference from Xenonauts 1 / 2 and JA-Row to all other Games is the following: The Soldiers can heal themselfs, which you can´t in old / new XCOM, Phoenix Point and the other Games which are to much to list.
Short said: In differnent Games you have the best Healing-System since the 1990s. An better one you won´t get, dosen´t matter what the Developers over the last 3 Decades have tried already and still try in such Gernes during Development!
I don't think it's particularly useful to declare that a system is perfect so shouldn't be changed. That doesn't really encourage innovative thinking.
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1 hour ago, doubleskulls said:
I'll generally have about 1/3 of the squad equipped with medikits, so I try and ensure that each sub-team has a medikit in it in. IMO avoiding getting hit is crucial. Medikits are contingency against getting hit, but if everyone has them then that means fewer flashbangs or smoke grenades which could stop the person being wounded in the first place.
Now this is an interesting point you've touched upon: using the existing system we've each come up with different strategies. After reading this I can see that my idea might give with one hand (potentially be more interesting on the battlefield) but take with the other (limit strategic options). I still think my ideas have merit, and I might personally prefer the situations they'd allow, but maybe they wouldn't be to everyone's taste. In any case, I think lots of valid points have been made and if the devs read this thread then they can take from it what they want!
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4 hours ago, cman1983 said:
I'd like to see a demotion or promotion that we choose rather than it just happening for example.
Demotion for running away on battlefield or shooting ur own team member
Promotion for doing something not normal like using the 1 soldier to do all the releasing of captives in abduction missions or all the data from computers or even if the soldiers kill over a certain amount of aliens in 1 mission
I'm not sure actively demoting soldiers is something you'd ever really want to do, but my suggestion of having some promotion points you can distribute after a mission would allow you to roleplay it a bit more and give a boost to certain soldiers who perform particularly well, as you gave examples of.
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It might be fun to have the option of using alien weapons that are dropped, but the point about them being OP is very fair. So how about some significant penalties to their use? Ideas include:
* They're not optimised for human use, so their accuracy is massively reduced;
* Their inbuilt security system causes some damage to the user every time they're fired;
* As humans aren't proficient in their use there's a chance they could explode when fired, causing significant damage to the user and anyone within a blast radius;
* They can't be reloaded;
* They can only be used on the mission they're dropped.So, you wouldn't really want to use them, but in a desperate situation (like you're out of ammo for your regular gun) then they could give you a roll of the dice.
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37 minutes ago, SoulFilcher said:
Medkits should not heal, only stop bleeding. Considering how slow soldier heal back in base with the proper structure for that it feels very unrealistic to heal a lot of HP from a single medkit use. Or at least the initial medkit shouldn't and that could be unlocked later using alien tech. But then again, if you can create a medkit that does that, the same tech should totally allow soldiers to be healed instantly in base, which I think is not the goal.
I think that the current system of healing some HP in the field but needing a long time back at base might not be realistic but works well from a gameplay perspective. My suggestion does make things a little more realistic, in that bandages would only stop bleeding, and more specialist equipment would be needed for actual field medic work.
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50 minutes ago, Alienkiller said:
- The Sani-Bag is already heavy and TU-Consuming.
I didn't find they were particularly heavy or TU consuming. Advanced medkit: weight 15, 12 TUs to use.
50 minutes ago, Alienkiller said:- Not all Soldiers can carry it already (like the HMG, Grenadiers, Shields f.e.)
I gave it to all my soldiers, including HMG, Grenadiers, Shields.
54 minutes ago, Alienkiller said:- And you can make an Medic Soldier already manually if you whish
I'm not sure of your point here. You can give anyone a medkit? I'm suggesting an alternative approach which could be more interesting.
1 hour ago, Alienkiller said:Of course you can change that, to integrate an Field-Doc or similar. But why the Devs and Main-Beta-Testers should do it? To exclude the ocassion / normal Gamers and only make it for Experts / Veterans. That´s not our Stile, we wanna have every Gamer in that Game.
I'm not sure it would only make it for veteran players. If you're referring to difficulty, I gave some examples of how it could be balanced. I'm sure there are many more.
UFO doors
in Xenonauts-2 General Discussion
Posted
Oh nice, that could make breaching UFOs a lot more dramatic. Potential issue though: what if a player forgets to bring C4? Or uses it all up before reaching the UFO. Would the mission then be impossible to complete?
Additional idea: capturing a live Mentarch unlocks "Alien Security Systems" research. Completing this then allows you to manufacture keycards to access UFOs (i.e. the doors open normally so you don't need C4). This research could also allow your soldiers to bypass the security safeguards built into alien weapons, allowing you to use guns dropped by dead aliens, albeit with significant accuracy penalties to maintain game balance (in-game explanation: the weapons aren't optimised for humans so they're difficult to fire).