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visig

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  1. Thanks opinions I think harder or easier, slower or faster is affected by how to balance, but not specific mechanism. For example, if designer use the formula in phase 1 and incrasing base-accuracy by +10 -- which mean designer assume soldiers will fighting naturally with average morale = 80. If this assume is true, the game speed will similar as before. And another reason not harder is: "enemy also affected by morale". So, not only player's soldiers are rushed by enemy will decrease morale, you rush to enemy or find a enemy in corner will decrease them morale (and weak them) too. Not only player's soldiers need to "Take a breath", enemies should also consider it, else they will exhausted very soon. ------ Sorry for confusing. It's my fault. Please allow me to clearify: all rules in phase 2 are independent and optional. Those things are no different with things in "MAY Interesting Idea" chapter. I just need some basic examples to explain the potential about morale system interact with whole battle system. ------ I agree, Suppression System is duplicated if (and only if) near bullets cause morale damage (It's a optional rule in phase 2, may not want be implemented). In this situation, I think Suppression can be replaced by morale effect. The detail reason I already place in "MAY Interesting Idea " -> "Simplifications " -> "3" section. ------ I'm not so sure Dreadful Tiles concept is well, it just a basic example in phase 2. In phase 2 I try to exploring how to let single attribute (Bravery) interact with other factor. In Dreadful Tiles case, the factor is terrain. In many other game, different troop has different combat efficiency in different terrain. Elf should fighting in forest, knight should fighting on plain -- due to them knowledge or physical skill. But In Xenonauts, the battlefield too small to hard to use those reasons. So I just try to using morale to explain it. Of course, we may not want to build a terrain effect in this way. ------ Back to the origin, the original article just offer a basic framework to discuss "How to let morale much useful". Even the designer also say "morale wasn't used very much", and then cause some Bravery improve are not so important (my feeling agree that) ... wait! If that is true, why not just strip the Bravery out like Strength? Or, try to let it become a real critical part? That's what I thinking. I guess both direction are OK, but current state are not so elegant for me. Hope designer can fill that, no matter using my way or not
  2. Too long as a reply, so migrate from Xenonauts-2: Soldiers Thread ------ The following article try to discuss how to make Bravery and Morale become a meanful & critical part in ground combat. # Thinking about Bravery and Morale System Honestly, I never like the morale system in the whole XCOM series. This system never introduce any interesting and important decisions at least for me. I think it's due to the "morale penalty curve" not continuously. Let me explain: - If your solider has 100% morale, everything is good. So go forward and attack. - If your solider has 80% morale, everything is good. So go forward and attack. - If your solider has 60% morale, everything is good. So go forward and attack. - If your solider has 40% morale and not panic yet, you may worry about next turn but everything still good in this turn. Your solider have full fire power output without any penalty. So if a alien in your weapon range, your usually do the same things like before: Attack (because if success, you will restore more morale, this is what you want). - Until your solider really panic by a dice. You see, morale not really let us do any real / interesting decisions. It more like some sudden disaster. ## Simplify the Assumptions For clarify and simplify, I using some basic assumptions for the following thinking (the detail can be tweaked if implement necessary). Include: - The maximum of morale always 100. - Morale will slight restore each turn. (for example: 5 point each turn) - Bravery affect only "how many morale down", but not about max morale. For example: soldier with high Bravery only lost small amount of morale when him be hit. Hint: I ignore "Stress" effect in following discuss but It can assembled to any factors at later easily. E.g., a modifier of real Bravery, a modifier of max morale, control how much morale restore each turn. etc. ## Phase 1: Continuous Penalty Curve Let's consider more smooth penalty curve with morale decrease. For example: real accuracy = base accuracy - (1/2 morale decreased) So... - If 20 morale decreased, will reduce 10 accuracy. - If 40 morale decreased, will reduce 20 accuracy. Now, each morale point are more and more important than before. If one of your solider feel the situation are horrible in his mind (maybe real situation not so bad in whole battlefield scope). You will have a very good reason let him (her) retreat / regroup / take a breath / use TUs to find a good cover in this turn, but not do some attacks with his (her) low accuracy. Beside, the original panic system can still working on low morale level. ## Phase 2: Enhance Morale Management If phase 1 be implemented, we can expect players will much care about how to control soldier's morale. So we can introduce more mechanism about how morale up and down. Here is some morale decreasing events (each are independently): - Be flanked by aliens. - Approaching or sudden find a alien in close range. (so a brave solider are more suitable for close range / in house combat, even they don't have good SMG skill level, and a sniper may not need too much Bravery. We can also imagine two Reapers rush to three soldiers with well armed but leak bravery.) - Bullets pass / hit ground around soldiers. - Soldiers pass through some "Dreadful Tiles" (not only when soldiers stay at there -- it's more like how we using TUs). ### "Dreadful Tiles" rules The last "Dreadful Tiles" rules maybe more interesting. Those dreadful tiles may include following: - Some tiles be consider as low visibility (dubious) area. E.g., low light area, long grass, swamp, maybe also include smoke. - Some tiles with continuous damage. E.g., fire. In all XCOM series. "Difficult tiles" only mean "Need much of TUs to walk through". So if player find a long grass area, that exact mean "No matter you walk bypass or not, you just cannot pass through this area in 2 turn". No more decisions. But If we accept the Dreadful Tiles concept. And make those tiles not need so much TUs as before. Then the question become "we can rush through this area in one turn but suffer morale (= accuracy) penalty in future few turns, or use 2 turns to bypass this area". This model can be more exciting for implicit story talk. For example, a brave hero / MARS may more suitable rush in a UFO through fire or dark backdoor, because they only receive lower / no morale penalty, and other guys should tie up most enemies on front door, although front door has harder defence. More deeply, Low morale team will keep distance with dreadful area to avoid out of control (panic). If player fighting in a dubious / dark area, all soldiers may can't even move due to mental factor (penalty by incoming bullets and dreadful tiles) except the team has a brave one who can rush out the blood road. ------ After implement those things, the Bravery are never become a secondary attribute but a critical part to build a dynamic mental battlefield which deep interact with physical battlefield. The vehicles (if exists) also become more featureful due to it immunity to morale effect. And of course, phase 1 / 2 mechanism can / should also be used on aliens side (with some modify to reflect some aliens's character like feel comfortable in darkness, etc.). So a lot of missing LMG bullets can still significant reduce aliens shot back efficiency even they are not fully suppressed. if player fire enough of bullets then even force them panic or retreat. Let a small team to flanking enemies can also offer more benefit and allow main squadron attack more aggressive (due to enemy morale down = accuracy down). Player also has more reason to avoid be flanked. So recon team are more important in here -- Btw, if a team try to flanking enemy then mean they are also easier be flanked. So brave soldiers are more suitable to do that. It's provide more sense of reality. Back a step, if phase 2 too difficult to implement, I guess phase 1 can still working independent. And may interesting than original "panic or not" system. (Actually, phase 2 contain a lot of independent things and can be implement / choice splitly) ## MAY Interesting Idea Not so sure, just logging here. ### Simplifications 1. Soldiers ONLY panic when morale reach 0, replace original % chance panic at low morale level. It allow player easier to estimate how many morale should reserved in complex environment. 2. Bravery should only affect how many morale decrease but NO affect amount of morale restore. It avoid brave soldiers has double benefit, and easier to estimate by player. - if we really want different restore efficiency for different soldiers, may consider use Stress. (it's mean: soldier with high Bravery and high Stress still can affort horrible battlefield in very short time but vulnerable when combat take longer) 3. Consider remove original Suppression System if morale decrease can do the samilar things. - I mean, the original Suppression System is a "binary" system -- If player trigger the suppression condition, she can grab huge benefit, but if just only 2 bullets go far a bit, she got nothing. It's not reality, and usually let soldiers fall in danger due to a lot of TUs / manpower was wasted by attempt to suppress enemy but failed (just not touch the suppression's threshold). It make me depressed when soldier be killed by this reason. That's not good. The penalty curve are not smoothly here. - Of course, even remove suppression system, player still need some kind of indicator to show alien's morale level, let them make decision current should assault or fallback. ### "Take a Breath" Rule If some TUs never used in action and reaction, when a turn started, those TUs can be converted to extra morale restoreing point. I consider 6 TUs == 1 morales maybe good when base morale restore is 5 each turn. For example, If a hopeless soldier has a chance to don't move, she can re-encourage herself and get about 15 point morale restore each turn. but if her busy to fight or run away, only receive 5 point morale restore each turn. This rule focus on give player much active controllability about morale by consider how team members take cover / rotate / regroup each other in tactical operation. ### Others - Dreadful tiles also decrease the amount of morale restore. (E.g., soldier hard to restore morale in darkness, player should not reorganize in this area even this location has good physical defence.) - Soldiers close with each others can enhance Bravery. - Allow player change area light level. E.g., find a light button in room. - Heavy armor provide Bravery enhancement. - Tiles around corpses be considered as a dreadful area. - Bullets from hidden enemies or behind a soldier decrease more morale. - Try to shot aliens but miss, will decrease morale slightly. - Approaching (approached by) a Reapers reduce more morale than other races. Hope can consider this or similar mental system. Bravery are not really useful in X1. I hope all attribute has similar importantment -- and surely with a lot of interesting tactical decisions & imaginations ## Appendix: Shortcoming - Morale use Real Number (E.g., 73.1) If Bravery affect how many morale down in many events, the morale may need be considered on a Real Number (I mean a number with decimal point, like 10.5, not sure how to say it in common english) and really annoying me. This effect much significant on Dreadful Tiles rule. I will try to use it to explain: - Each dreadful tiles should not decrease too much (over 10) of morale, because a soldier may walk multiple tiles (maybe 20) in one time. - We want to make some different between two soldiers with Bravery 50 and 63. Now, suppose the formula of "Real decrease morale for specific tile type" as follow: real decreased morale = (base decrease morale) * (100 - Bravery) * 0.01 Suppose, "base decrease morale" of long grass tile is 4. The soldier with bravery 50 will suffer 2 for each tiles. But the soldier with bravery 63 will suffer 1.48 for each tiles. 1.48 is not a nice number for me because too detail and hard to estimate. And we can't simple "round it" due to this only effect on single tile and the error will be accumulated to a big number if soldier walk through 20 tiles. One option is use 1000-based morale integer value, but it's may much annoying because other value like TUs are 100-based. it may make player confused. Another option is use 100-based morale decimal value and round (suggest: use floor for easier to estimate) it to first digit after decimal point. Formula here: real decreased morale = floor_to_first_digit((base decrease morale) * (100 - Bravery) * 0.01) So now the soldier with bravery 63 will suffer 1.4 for each tiles. It's relative easier to evaluate by player and not loss too much difference between Bravery 50 (2) and 63 (1.4). It's easier to understand than 1000-based version and keep consistency with other attributes as much as possible. But still need to tweak UI to display it. Or if we can not agree a number with decimal point, a alternative is make Bravery not effect with how many morale decrease but increase morale maximum, then calculate all penalty by "% morale lost", and may also restore morale by % based (example: restore 5% each turn). But It's may cause morale value over 100.
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