Kilrathi
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Posts posted by Kilrathi
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Also, did PC Gamer? I'm still curious as to why they haven't at least mentioned it in a Kickstarter-related blurb, given that that's where I heard about the game in the first place.
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$50 sounds very cheap (+$20 on premium level for disk plus postage). Factor in your hassle for handling this, designing the cover material, cd design print and shipping lists - while it might give you more pledges, it doesn't sound like it will return much in the way of income to further develop the game. Why not go for $60. $65 - still in reach for most people, but it might mean more for what you can do with it game resourcing wise.
I agree with this. I wouldn't undersell yourself - from what I've seen in every Kickstarter I've backed, if things get momentum and people like the stretch goals and you give them the opportunity to do so, a number of people will put in more money than you'd think or they initially expected to pledge (says the guy who put in an extra $23 for the Ogre project because, dude, they're selling Car Wars t-shirts!). Keep in mind that not everyone is basing their pledge on retail prices - lots of times, people will contribute extra cash if there's something sorta cool that they get and it's a project they support (says the guy who also added $50 for the Ogre project for a supporter t-shirt and canvas game-carrying bag).
What about stuff like signed posters, exclusive artwork, etc.? I'd try to brainstorm some additional tiers at like $250-300 to catch a few people there who don't want to go all the way from $150 up to $500, as people on the forums said.
Or printed copies of the novella? Signed versions of the printed copies of the novella?
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Chris - any more thoughts on new reward tiers (signed versions of stuff - which would just require more signing but not more necessarily more postage, assuming you got to the U.S. to sign; digital art; etc.)? The stretch goals look great but it takes a lot of downloads at $30 to make up a $25k stretch goal... seems like there are people out there willing to bump their pledges if they have the opportunity to do so.
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I had the same thing today firing a rocket from inside a building, with the door open. Xenonaut with rocket launcher in a crouched position, rocket apparently hit the door frame and blew up good. Game CTD.
Exact same thing just happened to me. When we couldn't get the last alien out of his ship with grenades, we called in the rocket launcher. He stepped into the open door across the street from the ship... fired... into the door frame, apparently. Cloud of smoke and fire and then black screen and CTD. Nice work, corporal. There goes my game!
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You'd have really thought he'd be against that sort of thing...
Clearly you don't watch Sunday morning fundamentalist religious TV shows in America... they'd prefer you'd give 100% of everything you've got.
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I don't know much about boxes beyond the googles but given that it seems like the minimum print run would be the biggest issue (since printing 1000 boxes to sell 100 of them makes for weird economics), so I'm guessing that printing one standard size box would be the most cost-effective... then your USB stick or keychain could be put into the mailer box along with the game box.
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For whatever it's worth, I googled videogame boxes and found some people who'll do it. Obviously no idea about rates/terms/quality/etc., but options are out there - here are some ones I found on Google.
http://www.boxprintingcompany.com/Game_Box_Packaging.htm
http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/board-game-box-printing.html
http://www.valueboxprinting.com/computer-games-boxes/
http://businessimageprinting.com/Solutions/Game_Packaging_Solutions.htm
Some claim to be able to print for less than a dollar, albeit it with a 1000 unit minimum (and who knows what you get for your $0.25 box and if color/pictures/etc., rapidly get you up to over $1-2/box, which obviously changes the economics). Happy to make some calls on Monday if the survey indicates enough interest.
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Tough call on the Mac/Linux one - I don't know what the cost would be but I'm sure you'd make a lot of people happy if you did it but I'm not surprised it's low on the poll since it's a real binary choice. Personally, as a PC user, it won't impact me in the least (other than by bringing in more pledges, which is a goal I obviously endorse) so I voted it low despite realizing it's probably a good idea to work in somewhere if you think the additional pledges/sales will cover the cost.
Ok, time to go take a shower or, as they say in French, je vais prendre une douche.
A bientot,
-K
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I'll duck out of this discussion after this but I still like my idea from another thread - open up another slot of $200 support that will be for portraits on female soldiers (or maybe just portraits generally) (another 15-20 portraits/sponsorship levels), then use that cash to pay for the portrait artist and implementation of female portraits in the game as a stand-alone not a stretch goal. I'm not sure if the economics work out or if the portrait artist can handle the extra work, so maybe it's not possible, but that way the issue is resolved, the new tier pays for the implementation and it's not seen as "taking away" from another stretch goal. Seems more win-win to me than making it an either/or.
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I've been following that issue for quite a while actually. The fact is, even though that ship has sailed, and the KS proposed stretch goals in the first updates clearly said it would just be adding a few portraits, you still have people on the forums (or on KS) shutting down the idea - just a while ago for example.
Fair enough, and I wasn't arguing with you, just pointing out that the issue hasn't always been one of investing low resources into adding female soldiers - to actually do the "full" job would be a significant cost and that was the historical basis for the approach.
As for what people on the forums and KS say, obviously that's part of the debate but unless it's someone from Goldhawk specifically saying it, I don't think it's fair to view that as indicative of what the developer or even majority of the community thinks. People will disagree on most anything on the internet and Chris has been pretty clear in his approach to the issue, including recognizing that it was a desirable goal in posts (that I can't track down but I know I saw this a.m.!). Frankly, I agree with you in disagreeing with the "women won't make my game more fun" school of thought - I have women in my party/squad in basically every game and would like to see them here, too - but I wouldn't take a healthy debate (and the reality of resource limitations on the part of an indie studio) to reflect on the developers themselves. FWIW, level designer and female soldiers topped my list in the polls.
In any case, there's a thread dedicated to this topic at "http://www.goldhawkinteractive.com/forums/showthread.php/1892-Why-female-soldiers" if you're interested.
Chris - one thing re: the survey. You added indoor missions in, making for a total of 15 choices, but there are still only 14 spots for the rankers, so one has to be left blank.
-Kilrathi
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Chris,
A couple additional thoughts:
1. When does the survey end? Maybe mention that somewhere? Any chance of keeping it open through Monday so people who aren't online can participate (and not gripe that they didn't get a chance to)?
2. How about a FAQ on the Kickstarter site "Why weren't female soldiers included in the demo build?", addressing in a bit more detail why it would be so expensive to model the different sprites and why even female soldier portraits weren't included. From this thread and others and some of the comments on the Kickstarter, it's a question people keep asking and there's a misconception that it could be done easily/cheaply. Having a FAQ specifically on point acknowledging that it's a desirable goal and question of resources (and why) might help head some of that off... (whether or not they get voted in and added is a separate matter, but I feel like if people understand the reasoning - and cost - at least they may be less likely to think it was a conscious design decision)
-K
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i m new to the forum can someone please direct me to the stretch goal vote ?
The update with explanations is at http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/69341191/xenonauts/posts
The survey itself is at http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/CBDTVPS
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You're a man, but ask yourself this question: if you had a daugther, would you be confortable letting her play a game reinforcing the idea that only men are valuable, especially when it comes to important jobs like saving the human species? How can she identify to positive models if the only positive ones are of men (because "they" can do the ultimate sacrifice, unlile her)?
Not to hijack the thread, but Miles - I agree with much of what you say and I'd like to see female soldiers in the game, too. I think one issue with your analysis is that the debate typically hasn't been "add female portraits to the game" (which obviously carries with it a lower marginal cost - although there's the more general issue that the portrait artist seems to be nearing capacity right now) but that it has been "adding female soldiers with fully-differentiated sprites" to the game - in other words, a full realization of female characters versus a portraits-only concept. I think for awhile there was a thought of "don't do it unless you can do it right", as in have different character models, and adding in different character models actually is a really big time and resource issue, which has been out of Goldhawk's price range. Just wanted to clarify the issue since I don't think it's as simple as saying Goldhawk/old timers didn't want to spend a "low amount" of resources on female soldiers because to fully realize female soldiers would actually require a large amount of resources.
I hope to see female soldiers in the game, too, and I think the portrait-only solution is a nice happy medium. As I just posted on another thread, I think that more mid/high end tiers (including maybe a "female soldier only" portrait tier) would be good since I get the sense that there are people willing to contribute more to the project to help get these great-sounding features included, if only they have the option to do so.
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I agree with TNR. While I obviously want the best "game" (in terms of mechanics, variety, etc.), I think the omission of female soldiers would be such a big and obvious missing feature that it's just asking to be called out in every review, etc., and also to piss off female (and some male) gamers, so it seems like worth striving to add in if possible. Plus, I would think that if Earth were really under threat, the best and brightest, regardless, would be called in to save the planet! Having women in the game would make it more enjoyable, too - as other posters have posted, I name soldiers in X-Com and JA2 after friends, including women, and that just makes the game more fun and immersive.
If it can be partially financed by, say, adding in some sort of additional term of Kickstarter funding - maybe a new $200 tier that's announced concurrently with the announcement of a "Female soldiers can be in the game!" stretch goal and that permits the backer to add in a woman soldier/picture/name (so the equivalent of the current $200 but as a direct means to both populate the female soldier database and pay for it in part, too), maybe that's something. Keep it limited to 15-20 and you've raised another $3k-4k...
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jimbob, I like the idea of not having effective armor initially. And after the fact, i had considered the fact that i could have/should have sent a fight escort, but why/how would an unarmed vehicle attempt to intercept a ufo in the first place?
I picture it as you were sending the Chinook in to drop soldiers to take out the aliens who were busy doing their dastardly deeds. Then the aliens, realizing that chopper was full of crack Xenonauts who'd win a ground battle, quickly jumped back in their UFO and took to the skies to down the Chinook. Makes complete sense to me! It's sort of like when you're playing Civilzation and the enemy sends unguarded transport ships your way... of course you'll intercept them at sea and take 'em down before they can offload a bunch of rifleman next to your capital city.
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I'll add my vote to the "vehicles are fun but wouldn't be my first choice for leveling up or a new mechanic". I don't necessarily use them, either, and even with the fundraising goal met, it's not like Goldhawk has unlimited resources. I'd much rather have proximity grenades or new tilesets or mission types - things that add to or change gameplay than incremental additions like vehicles leveling. At root, the game is about your squad of men (and hopefully women) and how they save the planet. I'd like to have more ways to direct them so they can do so instead of additional elements from tanks or planes which aren't as central to the story. Sure, if it money/time were no issue, that would be great but it's still a question of priorities and I can see there being more important ones.
Back to the main topic: in addition to posting the polls, just a reminder to add some more reward tiers at the same time, which I know everyone's thinking about... but it takes awhile to hit another $25k or $50k if you're going in $20/30 increments - plus those tiers require bringing in new people. If there's a way to give current donors who are excited about new goals a way to increase their pledge, then you're essentially growing without having to do the PR legwork to interest new folks. In addition to the possibilities kicked around on the other thread (naming planes, etc.), I do think that new ideas of easy digital swag and/or signed books/art/etc. would be good ways to entice folks (and digital swag has a low overhead in terms of cost and distribution).
-Kilrathi, who's looking forward to playing some Xenonauts tonight
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Related question - can you throw ammo (or loaded gun) from one guy to the next? Haven't played enough battles to have had to try it, but that's saved my bacon in JA2 a couple times.
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On the subject of female soldiers - I see people saying it doesn't make a gameplay difference and that's true... but it does send a message that the game is open to female gamers (and conversely but also important that it's not just an oversight or some weird misogynistic strain in the game). Those of us who've followed the development know the reasons for it but I think it's one of those "non-gameplay" features that does play well to lots of people, makes for good PR and, frankly, would make the game more fun. I've always had some badass women in my RPG parties or JA2 squads, so I'm all for it here, and I think that as far as "non-gameplay" features go, this one's high on the list since it both adds variety to the game and would likely be good PR for the Kickstarter.
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If you're walking around with a glowing alien head chain and you get abducted ...well I'll not say you had it coming...but...
And that's where Captain Thothkins and his loyal band of Xenonauts comes in, of course... we're just setting the stage of the hostage rescue mission being talked about on the "poll" thread.
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Well then, in order of preference I'd like to see:
- "survive till rescue arrives"-missions for downed transports
I like this idea a lot - maybe have it where there's one crashed transport and another lands nearby but not right on top of the first so that you have to fight your way through to the trapped comrades while they have to try to hold off the aliens until they get rescued. Brings to mind "Black Hawk Down", which I thought was one of the more intense movies/books about squad-based combat.
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I'd totally go for an alien head keychain.
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The problem for the boxed copies is I don't even know where to start looking to get them produced...
I take it Brian Fargo never got back to you when you asked him? I know they were able to offer boxed games for the $50 tier, though I'm assuming that's a serious economy of scale issue and printing like 100 boxes would be much more expensive. One other random thought would be to reach out to some of the board/card game projects on Kickstarter and see how they're doing it. I know Steve Jackson's doing the Ogre print run in China and they have 6000+ copies but maybe some of the smaller card/board game guys have ideas since they pretty much have to get boxes made up in order to ship/present their games. I backed one called Shadow Days, who's doing a small card game - maybe they have some thoughts. Even if it costs, say, $50 per box, if that lets you sell a boxed copy for $100, that's a win.
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We could add portraits and kills for the pilots, I reckon. I don't want to give them stats, but we could probably add that.
Which then segues nicely into another reward tier, as has been talked about on another thread...
In order to save some of the work for doing new generic (non-KS-backed) portraits, can you have some of the standard soldier portraits make up the pool of potential pilot photos rather than drawing all new pilot photos?
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How about a hostage mission of some sort? Admittedly, I don't know the aliens' motivations or if that's how they roll (maybe they'd just kill people instead), but a mission with a bit more pressure to get the civvies out alive could be fun. In general, I'd say definitely include "more mission types" on the poll if that's do-able for you guys to implement. My top preference for any improvements would be gameplay mechanics - suppression, lying prone, moving while crouched, etc. - but additional mission types would definitely be high on the list.
Website update
in Xenonauts General Discussion
Posted
That's a really good idea - make it really clear from both the Xenonauts and Goldhawk pages that the Kickstarter's going on. What about signature banner graphics that people can put into their sigs advertising the Kickstarter? I've seen that for other Kickstarters. Always good to spread the word!