Squaddie Perseus

In regards to using alien weapons without research, I think in Xenonauts by default you could use alien weapons without researching them, you just have an accuracy penalty because the ergonomics aren't correct for a human. In fact, I never got OG X-COM's idea of "can't use without research". It doesn't take a genius to identify a trigger or what part of a grenade arms it. And frankly, I think that realistically, the average Naut would probably grab an alien weapon just because it's more effective than what you have at the start, and I'm not alone when I say that there are more than a few people who consider this a legitimate strategy so that we don't fall behind the tech curve (and currently, I've found this is the best way to avoid falling behind period, being able to stun the aliens with their own grenades works wonders until you can make your own, which requires capturing a medic so...). Edit: Oh, and Drages, after I reloaded the outpost like Asierus suggested, it re-rolled the aliens from Sebis to Caesans. Is there a way to fix that, or is it an intended feature of the game? Just curious, cause for the life of me I can't remember Vanilla re-rolling the alien bases.

@Drages: Alright. So that's what's causing the crash. And yeah, I thought that infinite hidden movement bug was fixed as well. As for the laser cannon...it's a problem with all vehicle weapons then to one degree or another. And frankly, it's currently the only way to reliably kill enemies that regen 100+ HP every turn, and this often includes early game Sebis, Reapers, and Xenomorphs without expending half of the ammo the entire team brought, assuming enough hits connect.

Hey Drages, I found a bug while raiding a Sebi outpost (first base I've found this playthrough). When I kill a certain Sebi and go to see just what it was and what weapon it was using, the game crashes. I've attached the save. The Sebi in question is the one in the room with the Hunter. Kill him, and then use the nearest soldier to look at the Sebi in the inventory and the game should crash. [ATTACH]6194[/ATTACH] Edit: Also, this save is experiencing the infinite hidden movement bug, but I'm not sure if that's a bug with the game itself or with the mod, still thought it was worth mentioning since I found this. XDIVISION 244.sav XDIVISION 244.sav

@Drages: Okay. Thanks for the heads up. So basically, one of my Nauts got over zealous in his reaction fire. Well, good thing I just took a another greenshirt alive then.

Bug Report (possibly?): I found a light green Caesan on a crashed light scout. It reads as a non-combatant in the inventory screen. Don't know if the game is reading a sprite or crew data incorrectly, but I figured I should let you know in case it turns out that this prevents us from capturing certain specialists.

Ah. My bad. I was looking at the sprite/model of one of the Sebi specialists there and it looked like one of them was using the Sebi soldier sprite (just colored red). And seriously man, don't let us keep you from getting something to eat.

Those are specialists. I don't know what their stats are like though. Still, none of them are officers. The highest they seem to have gone for you is being comparable to soldiers.....which would still be a problem because Sebi soldiers have high ballistic resistance from what I've seen.

*Sighs* Right. I'll get a save next time this happens. Again, I did a dumb and got over enthusiastic about the hotfix. Will keep an eye out for such situations in the and take screenshots as well.

I'll keep the editor in mind if this happens again. And nice Xenopedia image there. It wasn't a weapons officer. He was green, and there were two or three of them, all holding the line outside the ship and armed with blood scatters, firing two fire round bursts a turn. And I know Spear weapons are supposed to deal lower damage because they ignore resistances, but maybe I just hadn't used them enough to see a proper difference. The Spear problem may be me and that fact that they're an early game AP weapon. Looking at that dossier, I can safely say I was up against three Sebi officers on the corvette, all armed with blood scatter weapons (I remember the in-game sebis having helmets along with armor).

Is there a way to attach the photos to a forum post? It would also help me confirm if I ran into Sebi warriors on a corvette.

1) Sadly, I did a dumb and deleted all my pre-hotfix 3 saves. Sorry about that. When I get back to that point with the latest hotfix I'll see about getting you a save. Again, sorry. Should have thought of that. Just saw that the hotfix needed a new start and...yeah. XP I'll be more careful in the future. 2) Yeah. Stun gas. Lots of it. 3) Good to know. 4) I believe it was labeled as a blood scatter in the end mission screen and I believe it was used by a Sebi Warrior on a Corvette. And there was more than one. I actually managed to win that mission, but I had to drive my Defender right up to each warrior and shoot them point blank because none of my troops could get close or deal enough damage before the Sebi regenned all the damage done to it. Again, this is me not being careful and just installing the new hotfix. If this happens again I'll get you a save. And I'm sure it was a warrior, at least. Oh, and what makes this weirder is that earlier I had taken down a Caesan corvette that had soldiers on it, but that was as far as they went, so I can't explain why a Sebi corvette had warriors, which I could only kill using my tank, and come to think of it.....that Corvette's crew compliment was non-combants, guards, a couple of specialists, and two or three warriors. In regards to Androns and weapon sergeants, I did have lasers and spear weapons. Oh, and speaking of Spear Weapons, I did some testing with them and they're kind of useless. They don't penetrate enough armor (kind of defeating their purpose, or I am not using AP weapons properly due to a misconception on my part?) to be useful against aliens usually resistant to ballistics and they deal the same amount of damage as the nextgen weapons. Note that I tested the spear weapons against Caesans and Sebis, and the only one I found useful was the cannon because it just had such a high amount of damage and could do minor AOE damage. Again, maybe I'm misusing them but at current Spear weapons don't seem to do enough to make them an upgrade from nextgen weapons.

Oh. I think I know what weapon Kubi is talking about. If I'm remembering the tech I researched correctly, it's the nextgen vehicle cannon. Also, glad you caught that tech tree bug even though it required a restart. I couldn't figure out why I wasn't getting access to new air missiles/torpedoes after capturing all the specialists I possibly could (which at the time included Caesans and Sebillians). Also, are Sebillian specialists supposed to only be red? Just curious, seeing as how the Caesans have different colors for their specialists, which at least tells us there's something new, although, this may not matter for me. Whenever I see a specialist my first instinct is to just stun gas it into a coma. Also, what level of stun tech do we need to take reapers and xenomorphs alive as they are highly resistant to stun gas and after capturing live Caesan and Sebi medics I didn't have the option to research any new stun tech. Or do I have to fight Androns to get that tech? If so...sheesh. Finally, Sebis still seem to have some balance problems. Their snipers are still disturbingly accurate, and it doesn't mesh with their lore (what with the lizards being nearsighted and all), yet they'll hit most targets unless you're at the most outer range of their weapon and in cover. Oh, and the Blood Scatter (or whatever it's called, it seems to be the MG version of the Blood weapons)...well, it may have been the sebi using it, but the weapon is incredibly accurate, and I'd argue more accurate than sniper rifles, and with a five round burst it's overpowered, especially when all five shots hit (and the damage a single shot alone can deal is...very high). Still, the progress you've made is a amazing and I'm actively watching this forum for the newest hotfix and to alert you if I find any bugs or if there seems to be an especially major balance problem. Keep up the great work Drages.

Honestly, I'm perfectly fine with you taking your time with the new version, especially for the tech tree. The last version's tech tree was less of a tech tree and more of a convoluted tech web and all the info I found for deciphering it wasn't much help. If it's all going to be branches rather than a strangely connected web, this will be a massive improvement. Now, I have no problem with a "tech web" but at current, the tech web of this mod is...well, getting MAG weapons in the first couple of months followed by virtually no new weapons aside from the AP equivalent of lasers is befuddling. Take your time, Drages. No good will come of you rushing this mod. Now that you've got the weapons rebalanced, sort out the tech tree. Or take a break, you've earned it. Keep up the amazing work.

The new research tree....*HYPE INTENSIFIES!!!* Also, how "near" are we talking? Are you going to wait for CE V0.32 to be out or just release a compatibility fix once the new CE version hits?

1) Oh. Okay. Still, looking forward to this. 2) Oh. Okay. Yeah. I remember that class in OG X-COM. I don't remember them really unlocking new techs though. Oh boy...And yeah, I understand not wanting to spoil anything else. I just love trying to guess where mods like yours will go. Good luck.

1) How will Sebies look different? I'm guessing you're going to...recolor their scales? That would actually make sense since their reptiles. Meh. Just me trying to guess how you're going to go about it. Can't wait to see this implemented. 2) Doctors? I read in the main thread for the mod you couldn't get alien healing to work properly. Did you find a work around?

Actually, making only alienium upgrades free may a good idea. If you actually look at the alenium launchers, they're design isn't vastly different from regular Earth missiles, as opposed to say...the plasma missiles which have entirely new designs. This actually makes sense, as in-lore, Xenonaut scientists basically just devised a new warhead for the missiles/torpedoes, rather a new launcher and body for the projectiles entirely. It's easy to swap out a new warhead and place it on existing missiles, which is what they did. It's harder to design a new missile from the ground up entirely that early, especially with such a poor understanding of alien technology. This being said, Drages, if you are going to decrease the amount of materials new weapons and craft need, this suggestion may be superfluous, but I suppose we'll have to see how the lower requisites affect the game's balance first before we can say for sure. Oh, also, about the new alien classes we're going to see in .98, how we will distinguish them from the average alien?

Darn. Well, it was a long shot. If that's the case, then tweaking the burst fire mode's accuracy values a bit may be a good idea. Keeping vanilla values, yet basically making burst fire the go to fire mode for most weapons, leads to some really drawn out fights that just get tedious, or otherwise frustrating if most of the aliens aren't in cover (like Androns). It's kind of frustrating see a three round burst miss a target at ranges it should have hit (and yes, thanks to vanilla accuracy values, I've seen shots from pointblank bursts miss). I can understand bursts losing accuracy at longer ranges, and I readily accept and believe that, but at medium to short range, at least one of those shots should be connecting with the target. I can actually recall numerous times where a Naut's burst had a 24% (per shot) chance to hit an alien three tiles in front of them. That seems a bit...weird if you're going for realistically balanced weapons, at least, in terms of fire modes. Keep in mind, this may all be me and is largely just what I think. I'm not saying you should do any of this or that the mod will be ruined if you don't, but if burst fire is going to be the go to mode, I think you should make it a bit more accurate, especially when it's within a weapon's effective range. I mean....I really don't want to have to have my guys get so close to Reapers and Xenomorphs for their main form of attack to have an above 20% chance to hit when the target is already to close for comfort and within effective range. As it is, weapons that seem like they should be effective at longer ranges are not all that effective, especially when the target is out in the open. If they're behind cover, the lower hit chance makes sense as you need to flank them, but I'm pretty certain at least one shot from a three round burst will connect with a target that's just standing out in the open. I realize that IRL, most firefights CAN get very drawn out and often end up with pauses in them as people change positions and reload their weapons, but at the same time, if Soldier A has a clear line of fire to Target B, a shot should connect if the target is within effective range. Honestly, this may very well be stemming from the Xenomorphs and Reapers more than anything. Smart positioning against the ranged aliens makes a world of difference, but burst's current accuracy makes it dangerous to use, yet we have little choice to do so, especially where melee aliens are concerned. I could understand an absolute rookie missing a Reaper at close range (largely perhaps due to say...panic) but it just seems bizarre when a Naut I've had since the start of the game and is one of my best troops can barely hit an exposed target with a close range burst.

1) Good to know about the new alien types. Will you be recoloring the in-game appearances so we know which alien is what? 2) Guards...yeah, their poor accuracy makes sense. As for armor, most of my Nauts are rocking Wolf so I'm largely good for now. And yeah, I have hotfix 5 installed and aliens do seem to have a lower detection range. And that logic makes sense. I'm just very used to most X-COM likes having multiple fire options for most weapons, which includes aimed shots. That being the case, does the game allow for adding entirely new fire modes? Realistically (and yes, I know you said we have to sacrifice some realism, but here me out on this ), most armies these days train their troops to fire in bursts as it's a good compromise between accuracy and rate of fire. Perhaps the inclusion of a full auto mode for most weapons (IE: Assault Rifles, MGs) may be a good idea. This way, "normal" shots can become the new "aimed" shot for ARs with Burst shots having the more balanced accuracy of the fire modes. This may help balance out the accuracy problems of early game weapons while keeping things challenging. Although, this may be me as I'm very hesitant to get close to aliens, especially those with close combat weapons, and yes, Burst Fire is currently very effective in this mod, but having it retain vanilla accuracy values has led to some overly drawn out fights in my experiences thus far. 3) Okay, I can see your logic behind most weapons not having aimed shots. Again, as I said before, I'm just used to having most weapons being able to pull of an aimed shot. 4) As for the mod being hard...I agree, it is. But I haven't played Vanilla on Veteran nor am I playing this mod on Veteran and I still find it to be a challenge because of how much it reworks the game, improves the AI, etc. Maybe I'll do a veteran run once the mod hits version 1.0, who knows.

Thanks for the warm welcome. Glad to be a part of this creative and amazing community now. Also, yeah, I understand that adding 3x more content can result in bugs. And what I was describing may not be bugs for all I know, I may just be missing prerequisites. Anyway, when you say that in the next version, simply capturing an alien and interrogating it will unlock weapons research, do you mean something like this: Capturing Ceasan guard = info on alien plasma weapons for Xenonauts energy research? and Capturing Sebillian Warrior = info on alien ballistic weapons for Xenonauts projectile research? I'm just curious because that actually make a lot of sense (Sure, capturing the weapons themselves would be useful, but even a GRUNT knows at least something about how their rifle works), but will it be a one time thing or will we have to capture multiple aliens of the same class for a given species to unlock all potential research? Regardless of how it's handled, that sounds like an amazing change as I want to see all that this mod has to offer and the current tech tree is not conducive to that....and I want to see the Gauss guns and Advanced MAG weapons so much. Also, speaking of the aliens and weapons, two things seem a bit...strange. 1) Aliens past Guard and Soldier seem to have insane amounts of accuracy at times, largely Sebillians. I could accept it for say...Wraiths or Harridans (have been lucky enough to not encounter the latter yet) given their combat roles, but when Sebillians are out sniping my snipers, it feels unbalanced, especially when the lore outright states that Sebies are nearsighted and prefer getting close to their target before engaging them. 2) I'm curious as to why most weapons that aren't sniper rifles (IE: Say...a Spear AP Assault Rifle) isn't capable of making an aimed shot. In fact, the only non-sniper weapon that seems to be able to fire an aimed shot is the MAG rifle (only one I've discovered thus far). This seems a bit odd to me. Sure, an aimed shot with an assault rifle, regardless of tier, isn't going to be as accurate as a sniper rifle, but I don't see a reason for removing aimed shots from them entirely. Was it for balance reasons? If so, it actually feels unbalanced without such an option and even just outright perplexing. If more advanced weapons can't make reliable aimed shots, then what's the point of all the fancy sights and scopes? It makes combat a bit needlessly more difficult, especially when I know an aimed shot would have been more useful in a given situation, and making all of my guys snipers isn't a viable option. For version .98, I would recommend adding aimed shots back in for all weapons that are capable of making them by default. It should help balance out ground combat, or at least help avoid GC becoming to much of a grind thanks to "normal" shots being incredibly ineffective past a certain range, and "snap" shots being more of a last resort, both due to the damage and accuracy differences between the various shot "types". Finally, I read XenonaughtFox's post and podbelski's posts regarding aircraft and aircraft weapons micromanagement and I do share some of their views. Admittedly, vanilla Xenonauts did what it did to alleviate the original X-COM's micromanaging problems, largely in regards to missile weapons IMHO(seriously, how many of us have accidentally bought 100 Avalanche Missile Launchers rather then the missiles themselves?). Perhaps a good way to balance out the amount of micromanagement required to maintain a proper air fleet in this mod would be to lower the amount of materials any given aircraft or aircraft weapon requires, or make it so that UFOs give out a larger number of the required materials. As it is, due to the current requirements, my most advanced craft is a B17 with MAG storms and plasma launchers and none of my other craft have such things, even after bringing down and storming a few landingships (maybe finishing the cruiser raid I'm currently on will help the situation, but I'm not sure). And yes, in case your wondering, I gave the above mentioned B17 that gear because at the time because things around my European base were heating up in the air combat and I needed an edge against all the corvettes that were appearing at the time (and then I saw my first landingship so...yeah, at least Europe and the surrounding blocks are fairly secure). Anyway, this is all just my two cents, and sorry for the large and potentially rambling wall of text. I simply want to give as much feedback as possible so that you can make this mod the very absolute best it can be.

Hey, long time lurker on the forums and shorter time player (only been playing since Early Access), and I love Vanilla Xenonauts and I LOVE this mod as it adds so much more to an already amazing game and amazing adaption of old style X-COM (and I say that as someone who came to X-COM thanks to Firaxis' remake). That being said, and seeing as this is the discussion thread, I've been thinking about the tech tree. Things are very convoluted and they just don't match up. I've currently started to unlock weapons at very strange intervals. For example, I just unlocked newer bio weapons and few new laser weapons...a couple months after I unlocked MAG weapons, and yet I haven't even unlocked the Gauss weapon tech tree (which seems to be a prerequisite). I've been using Nuclear Student's tech tree organizer, and I'm on the right path to unlocking the tier that's between "advanced" and "ultimate", but I unlocked the basic MAG weapons first. Yet, according to the tech tree organizer, I need to research the "alien fusion reactor" (and that's just an example, I'm fairly certain I don't have other techs researched that should enable me to make these weapons) to be able to research basic MAG weaponry. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the tech tree, as it stands, is very large, very confusing, and in some cases seems to have a few bugs about. Now, Student's organizer is good and all, but I think in the long run we may want to consider two things: 1) Help Drages tighten up the tech tree and add the needed entries and fix any research bugs and 2) I realize this idea may be asking a lot but it may be a good idea if somebody were to make a flow chart for this mod's tech tree. It may make understanding the tech tree and what exactly is needed for what a bit easier (case in point, the MAG weapons, I don't think I have even HALF the research needed for them done and yet I could have my engineers start cranking them out so long as I have the resources, only reason I haven't is because I'm a bit tight on loot as it is and with enriched alien alloys being a thing, I don't want to potentially waste what I have). I realize I'm a newbie to the forums and everything, but I've been playing around with this mod the past few days and I love what I see, but the tech tree is so darn complex that I've actually given up trying to guess what research leads to what (which is part of the fun for me). Further, like I said, there seem to be bugs in the tech tree itself. I'm currently looking at what I'm supposed to need for plasma weapons. I could swear I had captured some Neutron weapons in the past, but I may be confusing them with another alien weapon type. Maybe I haven't captured any, maybe I have and the game just didn't recognize it. I'm not sure which, but maybe we should help Drages sort out the tech tree before any more major techs are added.