Breaking enemies out of cover.

I know that vaulting over cover is planned for the game, but I have been playing a wee bit of Gears of war 3, and one of the things you can do in that is vault over the cover, and if there is someone on the other side you knock them back, Then shoot them, hopefully...

This could apply to Xenonauts as a valid tactic, as it would not the enemy out of cover, and force them to stand up. Granted it would be done cautiously as your man would be on the wrong side of the cover, but if you're having a hard time killing an entrenched enemy...

Animation wise, well I don't know, perhaps you could just try running the 'get into cover' animation backwards? Maybe with a bit more staggering perhaps?

Nice idea but I don't think this is really within the scope of the game. It's mostly ranged fighting and while close combat would be an interesting addition to the X-Com universe it would need planned from the beggining to get it right. Mainly because if you include vault kicking then why cant I push an alien over if Im standing next to him? Or punch someone through a window?

Not to mention the usual problem of animation.

Having said that I will pay an extra tenner if I can crouch one soldier behind a Grey then push him over with another.

Although I can see where your coming from. I guess the game will just not allow you to move into a square thats occupied by something. In this case an alien.

Having said that I will pay an extra tenner if I can crouch one soldier behind a Grey then push him over with another.

Nice ...

I like the idea AD, but I agree it probably would have needed to be something planned from early on and doesn't really fit unless there are other direct contact actions. It also would probably have to open up all sorts of additional issues for reaction fire, as surely the alien you are trying to knock from cover would be able to get a shot off while you are trying to do it, so it would have to be a case of 100% chance of reaction fire, provided AP are available of course, and at point blank rage, it is more likely to end with dead soldier than, alien knocked from cover

Mainly because if you include vault kicking then why cant I push an alien over if Im standing next to him? Or punch someone through a window?

Close combat in a military setting typically involves setting your rifle to full auto and emptying the magazine into the target standing right next to you.

It's extremely hard to do the same kind of damage with a flying kick. Maybe if you're Chuck Norris.

Chuck Noris isn't in the game! =O

But yeah I agree with everyone too, it was a bit of wishful thinking. I guess what I was really trying to get at is a way to make the aliens break cover, other than grenades, and possibly flamers. Any ideas on that?

Anyone have any ideas how to change the title of a thread, I want to change it to "forcing enemies to break cover" or something along those lines...

Could always beat them unconscious with rifle butts.

Yeah but you have to get there first... and there is no cool animation kicking them back making you feel like a bad arse! Or anything =p

I guess what I was really trying to get at is a way to make the aliens break cover, other than grenades, and possibly flamers. Any ideas on that?

Anyone have any ideas how to change the title of a thread, I want to change it to "forcing enemies to break cover" or something along those lines...

Currently our options for breaking cover are explosives, firing at the cover itself in hopes of destroying it and flanking to negate the effects. I can't think of anything else I want in but I'll be sure to jot it down here if it comes to me. I need to do some more playtesting actually. I've not had to deal with anyone in cover yet. At least not on the right side of it >.>

I would have thought Sathra could rename it? If not directly then by moving the thread to one with the name you want.

I'll do it eventually.

The other options for dealing with enemies in cover that you missed were:

High accuracy weapons (they negate part of the cover save)

Flamethrowers and equivalents (ignore cover)

Shouldn't need much more, since in all likelihood you could also charge at the cover with a shield and stun baton and smack them around the face over the cover (if its a cover wall), or just shoot then while using the same piece of cover from the other side of it.

You can also kill enough of their friends to make them run away.

If low morale makes people (and non-people) flee then they will probably use the civilian AI and run from the nearest hostile to cover.

That may not make morale any use for getting people out of cover.

Well the morale system means it's more likely to a unit just to freeze up and lose its APs at fairly low morale levels, and they only start screaming and running away or shooting at invisible enemies at really low morale levels.

More likely they'll just freeze up, and you can execute them at your leisure. Chris' comment makes me think that its possible that when they do start berserking and running, you can start hunting them down like animals. Whooping if you want.

Insert Deer Hunter mini game...

Hopefully your troops don't act in the same way then.

That would not be a pleasant experience.

Hunting a terrified and screaming alien through a burning jungle ... sounds familiar to the LPers I'm sure.

Hunting a terrified and screaming alien through a burning [location] ... sounds familiar to the LPers I'm sure.

Fixed it for ya.

Fixed it for ya.

Point taken ...

@ Sathra, can you stun baton over cover?

Hmm, not quite sure. I think you can stun baton over cover walls, but not cover objects (which would make sense. Cover walls are between tiles, cover objects take up a tile).

I'll see if it can be done with the current build.

Edit: Yep, it works as I said, but its really expensive (30+ AP compared to about 18 in the open). I'm not sure how the costs of using an Shock Baton work though. It seems that stunning over or around cover adds alot, or something else (maybe it adds the cost as if the trooper walked around the object?) If the target is outside of range, they'll run to it, which is what they do if the target is on the other side of a cover object.

Hmmm interesting. I guess that actually works the same as vaulting over, but better!

Mainly because if you just knocked them back you'd still have to shoot them, and then you'd still be on the wrong side of the cover!

That's a point, do any weapons currently have knockback?

No.

I don't think so (no projectile weapons actually knock things back like in movies, mythbusters told me that was a lie... =[), but being able to stun over cover sounds pretty good!

The game is already making concessions to play style over realism, so I felt it was worth asking. I think it would over-complicate things though, so it's fine that the point is moot.

I agree though. You never know what those plasma shotguns may be capable of? Or perhaps a directed pressure gun of some sort? Though you'd still need to miss the cover. Or perhaps a gun which is really, really good at destroying cover, therefore leaving the alien who was hiding behind it exposed... That's quite a niche role.

Take lots of those and then you can't kill the aliens easily, but don't take any and it may be hard to break them out of their strongpoint...

Only if the Noisy Cricket also knocks back your own trooper.

Rookies fly further.