Question about C4

So, I'm kinda conflicted here.

I (briefly) researched what a 1kg block of C4 would do, and I have to say that the current "huge explosion" that the C4 produces is pretty much right on the money. Levels most everything in the large radius.

However, at the same time I miss having a low radius explosive charge that I could use for simply blowing a small hole in a wall for breaching purposes. The C4 used to be like this; small radius, sufficiently high damage to destroy a wall without destroying much else around it.

Does anyone else miss this? Something small that would be a better, safer way to enter a building, or blow a UFO door, or whatever without leveling everything in an eight (or higher?) radius like the C4 would.

I recommend adding a second explosive that does just this, but I'm unsure as to what we would name this new explosive, and the old C4 for that matter, to avoid confusion.

Any thoughts?

I don't. Because on base missions it often kills aliens behind the door you're blowing up. I find it much better now. You just have to remember to get out of the way.

I'm not advocating nerfing the C4. I like it how it is. I just would also like a smaller breaching charge to be added as well so I can have more variety in my tactics.

You know, options. Do I blow up this entire house? Or do I simply blow a 1x1 hole in the wall so I can enter and clear it out myself? Currently there aren't any short radius explosives. We have rockets (big), C4 (really big), and grenades (medium). None of these are well suited to making your own entrance in a wall without blowing everything up around it (or in the case of grenades, frags wouldn't do much of anything anyway).

Hmmm...I thought about that. It's pretty unlikely I'd carry a smaller charge given the choice. I suppose if it weighed a lot less or could punch through stuff the C4 couldn't it might be useful. Maybe some type of shaped charge with a blast that looked more like a cone:

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The thing is, the C4 only weighs 1 kg, so how much less could it weigh?

Ideally I want to avoid making alteration suggestions to the C4 because that'd alter the balance and stuff, but perhaps we could make the C4 a "Satchel Charge" that weighs 1.5kg, and make a "Breaching Charge" that weighs 0.5 kg and takes up less space in the pack? Like, a 1x1 block of C4 for the breaching charge, as opposed to the 1x2 block of C4 for the satchel charge. However, a satchel charge is somewhat different, in that it's in a container, so that name may not work as well with the current art used.

I dunno if shaped charges would be possible, at least in the way you've suggested. That'd be awesome, though, but it still would destroy a lot of things which I'd like to avoid.

To define more or less exactly what I'm looking for: a super tiny bomb that'd just blow a single wall, damage the two walls on either side (due to the force required to completely destroy a wall segment), and leave the rest of everything else intact, undamaged. Ideally it'd suppress and kick up light smoke (not smoke grenade smoke) in a farther radius, maybe like a tile or two less than the flash grenade radius, because realistically a breaching charge would do stuff like that to anyone too near it.

The thing is, the C4 only weighs 1 kg, so how much less could it weigh?

Ideally I want to avoid making alteration suggestions to the C4 because that'd alter the balance and stuff, but perhaps we could make the C4 a "Satchel Charge" that weighs 1.5kg, and make a "Breaching Charge" that weighs 0.5 kg and takes up less space in the pack? Like, a 1x1 block of C4 for the breaching charge, as opposed to the 1x2 block of C4 for the satchel charge. However, a satchel charge is somewhat different, in that it's in a container, so that name may not work as well with the current art used.

I dunno if shaped charges would be possible, at least in the way you've suggested. That'd be awesome, though, but it still would destroy a lot of things which I'd like to avoid.

To define more or less exactly what I'm looking for: a super tiny bomb that'd just blow a single wall, damage the two walls on either side (due to the force required to completely destroy a wall segment), and leave the rest of everything else intact, undamaged. Ideally it'd suppress and kick up light smoke (not smoke grenade smoke) in a farther radius, maybe like a tile or two less than the flash grenade radius, because realistically a breaching charge would do stuff like that to anyone too near it.

That would be fine by me, but you'll have to convince GH that new content is justified. It would take some new artwork for the weapons screen and soldier equipment screen.

Yeah, there's the kicker. Well, Aaron seems to like the idea of blowing up UFO doors; should we have a charge that just blows up the door and doesn't destroy everything inside the UFO as well? Maybe I can get some traction there.

Yeah, there's the kicker. Well, Aaron seems to like the idea of blowing up UFO doors; should we have a charge that just blows up the door and doesn't destroy everything inside the UFO as well? Maybe I can get some traction there.

Couldn't you use a grenade or two instead? They don't have nearly the blast radius. Besides, UFO doors aren't locked. I thought it was only a few of the doors inside a base.

They're not locked.

... So I can't blow them up?

Grenades aren't meant to be used for blowing doors or walls open, not at all. Besides, they still have a large radius of damage.

By that same reasoning I could just move the C4 seven tiles away, so I get the one wall or door destroyed without the rest of the wall. Should we settle for something that kinda works when we should have something that does the job by design?

They're not locked.

... So I can't blow them up?

Grenades aren't meant to be used for blowing doors or walls open, not at all. Besides, they still have a large radius of damage.

By that same reasoning I could just move the C4 seven tiles away, so I get the one wall or door destroyed without the rest of the wall. Should we settle for something that kinda works when we should have something that does the job by design?

Yeah, I know...I was just suggesting a work around.

No, I understand you were just trying to help. No worries, mate.

I was thinking about this before I saw this thread, and decided I'd really like to have HE grenades as a combat option. (I know most of the high-tech "frag" grenades we get now are more like HE already lore-wise, but that's beside the point).

Like make frag grenades and the various tech upgrades for such have a wide radius and good damage to living creatures inside the radius but poor damage versus terrain, but HE grenades have a small radius and intense damage to terrain. And C4 lies as the ultimate "when everything simply must die" alternative.

Mostly I'd end up using the HE grenades to remove important cover. I'm up to Fusion grenades now and I feel like they still suck at destroying cover: I'd really like to be able to chuck a grenade at a guy, let it blow his cover to bits, then have another soldier pop him. C4 has the issue of being too slow for my tactics, mostly. Plus I avoid overdamage like the plague which really restrains my use of anything more explosive than a flashbang.

I don't think we are going to be adding any sort of specialised breaching charge, I don't really see what the drawback of C4 is in this case? I am considering reducing the range of C4 down very slightly.

We probably will be adding a C4 upgrade around about plasma weapons that ups the damage a bit, I just need to find some time to do the art and implement it.

I don't think we are going to be adding any sort of specialised breaching charge, I don't really see what the drawback of C4 is in this case? I am considering reducing the range of C4 down very slightly.

We probably will be adding a C4 upgrade around about plasma weapons that ups the damage a bit, I just need to find some time to do the art and implement it.

I don't have a problem with a slight blast radius reduction, but the power should stay the same.

Reducing the radius would help reduce the collateral damage, and I especially like that an upgrade is planned.

As Stellar said, keep the damage, though, that fits quite well.

Alright, I'm content. haha, thanks Aaron!

I support Waladil's idea for separate frag and HE grenades, though, that'd open up some nice player options.

Frags with large radius, good ballistic damage, but poor terrain damage (incendiary, right), and HE with high incendiary damage but a smaller radius. So, what would that be, radius of 3? 4?

The HE would always have high incendiary damage, but perhaps the frag should switch damage types as you upgrade the grenade? So, plasma grenades would do energy damage and ballistic damage, because, well, plasma.

Reducing the radius would help reduce the collateral damage, and I especially like that an upgrade is planned.

As Stellar said, keep the damage, though, that fits quite well.

Alright, I'm content. haha, thanks Aaron!

I support Waladil's idea for separate frag and HE grenades, though, that'd open up some nice player options.

Frags with large radius, good ballistic damage, but poor terrain damage (incendiary, right), and HE with high incendiary damage but a smaller radius. So, what would that be, radius of 3? 4?

The HE would always have high incendiary damage, but perhaps the frag should switch damage types as you upgrade the grenade? So, plasma grenades would do energy damage and ballistic damage, because, well, plasma.

I've heard of HE only grenades, but they generally aren't too useful because of the tiny lethal radius. Thermite is another type. Those can burn through just about anything, but fairly useless in combat as it has to hand placed to do much damage. The only ones that really make any sense for our guys to carry are frags, smoke, stun/gas and WP. WP could be useful to add as it can create smoke and injure enemies with burning phosphorous. Of course, according to the Geneva Convention you're not supposed to use WP against enemy civilians. But, I don't suppose the aliens signed the Geneva Convention... Edited August 8, 2013 by StellarRat

We probably will be adding a C4 upgrade around about plasma weapons that ups the damage a bit, I just need to find some time to do the art and implement it.

Shouldn't the C4 upgrade to A4 when Alenium explosives are researched? I mean that is the logical place for an upgrade, no? Every other explosive device in the game upgrades at that point.

Well, based on the lore, it looks like it would be an encased block of depleted Alenium with a pulsed laser detonator.

I would call it "Alenium Explosive Charge" myself.