V22 Experimental 10 Stealth Fix!

[Chris]

You don't need to do anything to get this update - I've already put it out on Steam, so you'll get it as long as you have Experimental 10 already. This update will not break save games.

FIXES:

• The chequerboard pattern for ground tiles on UFOs are now fixed (my bad, I missed a commit last time round)
  
• Aliens now start the first turn with 50% TU, so they won't immediately reaction fire at you the moment you step off the dropship. You'll have about half a turn to suppress them or pop smoke before they open fire.
  
• The sale value of recovered alien items have been decreased by about 20% across the board to accompany the airstrike value nerf.
  
• Bases now cost $1m to build, instead of $500k. This was in the previous patch, but I forgot to mention it.
  

[Solver]

• Aliens now start the first turn with 50% TU, so they won't immediately reaction fire at you the moment you step off the dropship. You'll have about half a turn to suppress them or pop smoke before they open fire.

This is very good, but brings me to ask, is there a comprehensive description of the reaction fire system somewhere? Between weapon reaction modifiers and all the experimental builds, I think I've lost track of how it works exactly.

[Korpah]

great another patch! the release date of 1 juni is still in effect?

[kabill]

This is very good, but brings me to ask, is there a comprehensive description of the reaction fire system somewhere? Between weapon reaction modifiers and all the experimental builds, I think I've lost track of how it works exactly.

After certain actions (moving, shooting and throwing being the main ones), the game checks the initiative score of the soldier vs. aliens that can see them.

Initiative is calculated by (REF x (CURRENT TU/MAX TU)) * Weapon Modifier (I think).

If the initiative value of the soldier is higher, then carry on!

If the initiative value of the soldier is lower, the alien(s) take reaction shots, depleting their TUs accordingly (this assumes they had enough TUs for reaction fire in the first place).

Basically, this change means that - assuming equal reflexes and weapon modifiers - your soldiers can use around half their TUs on the first turn before they will draw reaction fire from aliens.

(I think all that is more or less correct; there might be some errors but I think it's right in spirit at the very least).

[legit1337]

What!? Bases cost 1 mil? They were expensive already at 500,000! Please revert!

This on top of the income nerfs is just too much. How am I supposed to get a second base up before month 3?

[kabill]

Bear in mind that overall money seems to have gone up in this build. Chris said the 30% funding increase is equivalent to ~$1m at the start of the game and there's no way the reduction in crash site values is losing you that much per month in exchange.

[Chris]

It would help if people would actually try playing the game rather than just theorycrafting about how the changes are going to wreck their game. There's so many of them that none of them can be judged in isolation.

I'm happy to discuss people's experience with the game, but given I've played this changeset *extensively* let's avoid requesting I make changes based purely on your gut reaction, eh?

[KevinHann]

What? You made a ton of changes? Please revert!

[llunak]

What!? Bases cost 1 mil? They were expensive already at 500,000! Please revert!

This on top of the income nerfs is just too much. How am I supposed to get a second base up before month 3?

Easily, actually, if you have the skill .

I was thinking the same, so I tried just a quick game with no GC. Starting with just 1M is kind of annoying, as I had to wait with 2nd base until 2nd month, but it was fully operational before end of 2nd month. I lost slightly less than 200k in funding in 1st month, but already about made up for it in the 2nd month. I'd be most probably going for 3rd base and funding increased above the starting level in the 3rd month if I would be bothered to continue with the game.

So it actually felt about right for me. Although it felt a bit annoying to be delayed in expansion this way, it made the start more interesting. I tried this on Veteran, which I feel is a bit easy for me, and I consider myself to be pretty good at geoscape and AC. And I admit it felt a bit like the RNG liked me (all 3 UFOs of the first wave eventually wandered into my range, for example). I don't know how GC would affect the game, but I'd expect that it should be capable of at least sustaining itself (especially given the loot money went down by just 20%).

I'm not sure how new or less skilled players are going to handle this though. Guessing from what I saw in some youtube playthroughs, people might have a hard time coping with such a (seemingly, at least) tough beginning.

Bear in mind that overall money seems to have gone up in this build. Chris said the 30% funding increase is equivalent to ~$1m at the start of the game and there's no way the reduction in crash site values is losing you that much per month in exchange.

Yes, but keep in mind that this 1M extra comes first only after a month. So the first month felt rather poor money-wise. And since there was only one base, the upkeep starts low, so after the first month the net income was about 2M (IIRC). The jump felt a bit strange (if the starting funding was 3M, why do I start with just 1M cash if I have only one measly base?), but game-wise I think I don't mind that much.

[Caaygun]

Well my standard strategy was to build a second base on Day 1, and a third one when month 2 starts to cover the whole world early.

Now I'm trying 2nd and 3rd at the same time at start of month 2, it is not feasible to build one in month 1 now but quite possible to build 2 together at month 2. Seems to work fine for now. Helps that upkeep cost is not also doubled. Let's see.

[Solver]

Seems to me like it's easiest to just apply the ~30% increase also to the initial funding, so that you start with about 1.3 million and can build a second base right away if you want to (yes, I'm playing now).

[Chris]

There's actually no net funding decrease at the start of the game - in previous builds you were also left with $1m to spend once the primary base was up. It's basically just a check on people expanding literally immediately, but should make things a bit easier at the start of the next month.

Be warned, though, the difficulty in the current build hits a brick wall about the time Carriers start appearing...I think I constricted the flow of alien alloys a bit too much around the late game level, so you'll struggle to get enough Marauders in the air to replace your ailing Foxtrots. I'm looking at the balance there tomorrow, probably.

[KevinHann]

There's actually no net funding decrease at the start of the game - in previous builds you were also left with $1m to spend once the primary base was up. It's basically just a check on people expanding literally immediately, but should make things a bit easier at the start of the next month.

Be warned, though, the difficulty in the current build hits a brick wall about the time Carriers start appearing...I think I constricted the flow of alien alloys a bit too much around the late game level, so you'll struggle to get enough Marauders in the air to replace your ailing Foxtrots. I'm looking at the balance there tomorrow, probably.

This sounds like a challenge I fully commend, very good to hear these are being addressed! Hopefully alenium will also be a resource you need to carefully monitor as its consumption is less varied than the alloys.

[kabill]

Be warned, though, the difficulty in the current build hits a brick wall about the time Carriers start appearing...I think I constricted the flow of alien alloys a bit too much around the late game level, so you'll struggle to get enough Marauders in the air to replace your ailing Foxtrots. I'm looking at the balance there tomorrow, probably.

On that subject, some thoughts based on some information I was compiling on UFO spawns:

Carriers get introduced at ticker point 550, at which point there's a significant shift towards the top tier UFOs.

Between 450-549, the game spawns mostly Landing Ships and Cruisers (ignoring bombing missions and air superiority missions for now). There's no Carriers or Battleships at all.

Suddenly, at 550, Carriers and Battleships are spawning half the UFO mission types (Construction, Ground Attack, Terror and Base Attack). Cruisers are phased out entirely, and Landing Ships left with Supply missions. At this point, Intercetors also replace Heavy Fighters, at least in air superiority missions.

On the one hand, this is possibly a good thing since the ramp-up in difficulty could be seen as heralding the end-game. On the other hand, I wonder whether it wouldn't smooth progression to not have Carriers take over so much quite so quickly. Maybe introduce them at 550 as Construction/Base Attack UFOs only, and have them take over from Cruisers on Ground Attack at 600 instead?

Actually, since I've already made it, here's an Excel file showing the times different UFOs are introduced. Might be interesting for people to look at if they want, and it might be a useful resource for Chris to save him some time:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ficjiaejhqlc3aw/UFOs.xlsx

[StellarRat]

Suddenly, at 550, Carriers and Battleships are spawning half the UFO mission types (Construction, Ground Attack, Terror and Base Attack).

I agree the phase into the "massive" ships isn't really a phase in at all. One week I'm fighting landing ships and cruisers and the next week half the flights are carriers and battleships! Making my entire force of Foxtrots fairly useless. Even between landing ships and cruisers it's fairly abrupt. The percentages need to ramp up much more smoothly.

[Solver]

Not sure if a bug? I've had soldiers panic due to some unlucky events when their morale bar was still showing as full.

[Chris]

Yeah, I was planning to look at that too. The transition is somewhat abrupt (and has effectively ended my playthrough).

[legit1337]

Bear in mind that overall money seems to have gone up in this build. Chris said the 30% funding increase is equivalent to ~$1m at the start of the game and there's no way the reduction in crash site values is losing you that much per month in exchange.

I missed that 30% funding increase in the patch notes. So I thought it was just the income nerfs, and the doubling of base cost which would have completely screwed the early game balance that has been polished over the past few months.

Can you really blame me for panicking now?

I can't play, as I am out of town currently. But I can still spot something that will unbalance the game, and will remark on it if I see it.

[StellarRat]

Chris - Can you clarify something for me? Do all psionics require some type of spotting, either squad or direct LOS? I know some require LOS to the target, but my understanding was that for fear, dread, etc... that aliens at least had to know where your soldier was. Or some powers just a transmission that affects any soldier within a certain radius from the psion? I could swear I've had soldiers attacked that weren't any place that a psion could have seen them.

[Skitso]

Also, now that AI begins (hopefully) to take advantage of higher ground, one game mechanic that would be nice to have clarification is, how height effects shooting calculations. It's not covered anywhere ias far as I'm aware. A loading screen tip for example could be nice.

[Solver]

• Aliens now start the first turn with 50% TU, so they won't immediately reaction fire at you the moment you step off the dropship. You'll have about half a turn to suppress them or pop smoke before they open fire.

Is this working as intended? It seems the reaction check is done after my soldier's action. Here's what I observe: I see an alien out of the dropship, fire at it with my Sniper or on full auto. The alien, if not suppressed, immediately returns fire. I guess this is because my soldier is, after firing, at something like 25% TU and the check happens then?

[StellarRat]

Is this working as intended? It seems the reaction check is done after my soldier's action. Here's what I observe: I see an alien out of the dropship, fire at it with my Sniper or on full auto. The alien, if not suppressed, immediately returns fire. I guess this is because my soldier is, after firing, at something like 25% TU and the check happens then?

They still return fire, but you get the first shot now (most of the time.) They always get to fire back, but it's mostly a question of how much (snap or burst) and when (before you or after you.)

[KevinHann]

Well it sounds better than an alien out there just standing until your entire team has had a shot at it. Would be another genre.

[Skitso]

[*]All UFO doors set to auto-close at the end of each turn

To prevent door spamming, should the manual door closing be disabled on the ufo doors? At least for the turn in was opened?

[Anderty]

Let me introduce my own story of some my plays and tactics:

So, I usually try play Iron Man mode in veteran, which, usually, brings all the challenge and craziness (I mean, rage-quits on very sad moments.)

So, my strategy is building second base at second month, and third one at third month. By that time, I usually losing quite huge support from third world part coverage, which is pretty neat challenge, thought, I usually managed to lost, at poorest performance, one country. As well, I recently changed tactic from "soldiers in each base" to "Soldiers in one base, all others just coverage with air dominance hangars." Even no additional researchers or workshops, so I could support my soldiers with best equipment, as well do it pretty smoothly, as even with 30 researchers, science progress is quite steady. It's worth mentioning, that almost all the bloody time, it was quite hard on earnings, as such approach, as I mentioned, lead to losing support from countries, and earnings are pretty hard to gather.

After v10 experimental nerfs on earnings, I'm just speculating, isn't it bit too harsh? Of course, I'm sure that It's still manageable, possibly, it's even funnier, losing 3 countries or so. As well, more reasons to start selling alloys, to scarce budget.

BUT - here's the thing - I'll on my next starting play will try this, and if I'll lose 3 countries till fourth month (Cuz I doubt, I could build third base by earlier. That's why I want to play and try it.), then comes question - do I really need that third base? I mean, if I'll lose, let's say, America in any way, I'll then just ignore it at all time, leaving it to losing, because building and maintain new base costs much, and those countries won't help me on that anyway. Of course, if you leave 3 countries to loss, it's quite hardcore, not letting fourth to lose, but still, it just leads to strategy "Let those 3 countries fall apart. You can't save them anyway." Or so. It's definitely just speculation, but, to just test it, I seriously am willing to try this out, and tell 'bout my experience on those earning rebalanced.

Edited May 29, 2014 by Anderty